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EP 130 | Debbie Rosen & Lindsey Thoms: Why Smart Kids Get Stuck—and How to Unstick Them

A familiar IEP problem: the agenda book that never gets used

Frances Shefter opens this episode with a scenario most parents (and educators) know too well: an IEP can list “use an agenda book” for years, and the student still doesn’t use it. The result is predictable—missing assignments, overwhelm, and adults scrambling to “fix” the problem with more reminders, more checklists, more pressure.

That’s where today’s guests, Debbie Rosen and Lindsey Thoms, come in. They’re the co-owners of The Study Pro, an executive functioning and study skills center. Their work focuses on a simple but powerful shift: instead of handing kids another tool, they help students understand what’s getting in the way of using tools in the first place.

Executive functioning isn’t a strategy—it’s the skill behind the strategy

A planner can be helpful. But it’s not a magic solution, because a planner requires multiple underlying skills. Debbie and Lindsey explain that executive functions are the skills that help a person achieve a goal that benefits their future self—and because they’re skills, they’re developmental. Kids don’t automatically have them just because adults do.

This is why the “planner solution” often backfires. Adults see a planner and feel relief—everything laid out, everything chunked. A student with executive functioning challenges might look at that same planner and feel panic: now I can see ten things I can’t start.

One key example they highlight is initiation—the ability to get started. If initiation is the barrier, the planner doesn’t solve anything. It can actually make the mountain feel bigger.

The missing piece schools often skip: teaching the skills, not just requiring the output

Frances points out something that hits right at the heart of IEP implementation: schools often write accommodations like “task analysis” or “break down assignments,” but too often the adult does the breakdown for the child. That may get the assignment done, but it doesn’t build independence.

Debbie and Lindsey argue for a different approach: teach the student how to break things down with support, so eventually the student can do it alone. Yes, it can take more time upfront. But it saves time later—and more importantly, it builds the student’s confidence and long-term capability.

“Noticing” instead of nagging: how The Study Pro starts the work

Their process begins with a word they return to constantly: noticing.

Instead of telling a student what to do, they ask neutral, specific questions like:

  • “What do you notice when you read these directions?”

  • “What do you notice happens right before you get stuck?”

  • “Does this happen more in certain classes than others?”

That shift matters because many kids don’t know why they’re stuck. They just know they feel overwhelmed, ashamed, or defensive. Helping them notice patterns turns the problem from “I’m lazy” into “something is getting in my way—and we can figure out what.”

A real example: the “directions” that hijack a student’s brain

Lindsey shares a story about a student in AP History whose assignment was simple on paper: watch short videos and take notes. The videos were only about seven minutes each, but the long, detailed directions immediately overwhelmed him. His brain jumped to: “This will take forever,” which quickly became: “I can’t do this,” which then became avoidance.

Instead of pushing him through with pressure, Lindsey and the student worked side-by-side to reduce the cognitive load. They checked the actual video length (relief), and then used a practical tech strategy: split-screen tabs in Chrome, so the video and notes sheet could stay visible at the same time. That reduced the working memory strain of flipping back and forth.

And here’s the bigger point they make: when working memory and initiation get taxed, emotional control is usually what collapses next. The student didn’t just learn a trick—he learned that uncomfortable thoughts and feelings can show up and there can still be a solution.

The “8 executive functions” they use as a framework

Debbie explains that The Study Pro follows the BRIEF model (Behavior Rating Inventory of Executive Function) and focuses on eight executive functions. They name them clearly because they don’t believe in keeping it vague—kids should know what skill they’re building.

The eight skills they highlight

  • Initiation: getting started

  • Inhibition: resisting distractions/impulses

  • Shifting: mental flexibility, switching tasks or thinking

  • Emotional control: managing feelings while working toward goals

  • Working memory: holding and using information effectively

  • Planning/organizing: setting goals, choosing a strategy, following through

  • Materials organization: keeping belongings/supplies in order

  • Self-monitoring: evaluating performance and adjusting behavior

Frances reacts to this with something many parents feel: people say “executive functioning issues” as a catch-all, but that’s not useful. Naming the skill gives everyone a target. It turns “poor executive function” into “this student struggles with initiation” or “working memory is collapsing during multi-step tasks.”

Why “reminders” aren’t the same as scaffolding

Debbie shares a conversation with a parent of a tenth grader: the parent wanted to stop “scaffolding” so the student could learn. But when Debbie dug in, she reframed it: what’s happening isn’t scaffolding—it’s reminders. Reminders keep the system running, but they don’t build the student’s capacity. A student can receive reminders for years and still not develop the skills that make independence possible.

They emphasize a key gap: the student’s brain may sincerely believe, “I’ve got it,” even when the same missing-work pattern repeats every semester. That’s not defiance—it’s a skill gap plus optimism, avoidance, or shame layered on top.

The adult’s executive functioning matters too

One of the strongest parts of this episode is their honesty about the adult side. Helping a child develop executive functions takes the adult’s executive functions—especially emotional regulation.

When a parent gets an email saying “15 missing assignments,” it triggers fear. And fear triggers escalation. Debbie and Lindsey don’t judge that reaction—they name it. Adults can see the “train coming down the track,” and it feels impossible not to yell, lecture, or clamp down.

Their answer isn’t perfection. It’s strategy: find calmer moments to get curious, not crisis moments to interrogate. They even mention creating question-card prompts to help adults keep conversations neutral so it doesn’t feel like grilling, punishing, or shaming.

The shame trigger: why kids with ADHD/autism may melt down faster

They acknowledge something many families experience: kids with ADHD and autistic kids may have a quicker shame response. When shame activates, curiosity shuts off. That’s why “What’s wrong with you?” conversations go nowhere, even if the adult is trying to help.

Lindsey notes something poignant: in one-on-one conversations, students often empathize with their parents and teachers—“To be fair, I didn’t do it.” They understand adults are frustrated. But in the heat of the moment, they can’t access that empathy, and the family gets stuck in the cycle.

Modeling: the hidden research-backed strategy parents underestimate

Frances brings up something deceptively simple: talking out loud while problem-solving in front of kids.

“I feel like I can’t do it all… so I’m going to make a list: what needs to be done now, what can wait, and what I can outsource.”

Debbie and Lindsey validate this strongly. They point to research about the frontal lobe (where executive functions live): it develops late and requires modeling. Not just modeling “perfect strategies,” but modeling the process:

  • acknowledging a barrier

  • naming thoughts and feelings

  • trying to problem-solve

  • adjusting when plans change (shifting)

  • regulating emotions during the change

Kids often assume adults have it easy because adults don’t show the internal struggle. When parents narrate the process, kids learn they aren’t broken—they’re developing.

The danger words: “just” and “should”

They call out two words parents and educators use constantly: just and should.

  • “He should be able to do this—he’s smart.”

  • “If she just used a planner, she’d be fine.”

Those words are a red flag that the adult is overlooking a missing skill. Frances jokes about her old saying: “Don’t ‘should’ on yourself or others,” and Debbie adds that “just” works the same way—it minimizes the real barrier.

Lindsey shares a story from childhood that became a turning point: she was frustrated trying to help her brother with homework and told him, “Just do it.” He threw a basketball and said, “Just make a layup. It’s not that hard.” Message received. Ability isn’t universal—skills have to be taught, practiced, and supported.

Learning hard things vs. living in misery

A theme they keep returning to is “learning how to do hard things.” But they clarify what they mean: not suffering endlessly—learning how to make hard things easier through strategy, experience, and support.

They point out that school raises the stakes with grades, which makes failure feel unsafe. Yet real learning often comes from mistakes. Frances echoes this: failing an exam can be valuable if the student learns what went wrong and how to adjust. Debbie references educator Rita Pearson’s famous TED Talk about believing kids can improve—an example of how encouragement can change a child’s relationship with learning.

The most practical takeaway: what parents should do (and stop doing)

Frances asks the key closing question: what’s one simple thing parents can do right now?

Lindsey’s answer: believe they share the goal, and stay curious

Hold on to the belief that your child does want to do well—even if their behavior looks like they don’t. That belief helps parents regulate themselves.

Then: stay curious and don’t correct.
She admits this is hard because adults are problem-solvers, but she’s confident that if you stay curious long enough, kids often reach the same conclusion the adult wanted to jump to—except now it belongs to them.

She shares a great analogy from one of their coaches: jumping in with the solution is like opening your kid’s Christmas gift for them because you’re excited. You rob them of the discovery.

Debbie’s answer: assume a missing skill, not a character flaw

Instead of interpreting behavior as laziness or attitude, assume: there may be an underdeveloped skill here.
Then shift from “How do I fix this?” to “What need is behind what I’m seeing?”

That shift tends to improve the relationship, reduce shame, and increase the odds that the child will participate in finding solutions.

How to reach The Study Pro

Debbie shares their contact: info@thestudypro.com.

She also explains The Study Pro isn’t only coaching. They offer:

  • a homework center built on executive-function best practices (no strict time limits)

  • study skills and strategies courses

  • training on using AI ethically and responsibly to support executive functioning

  • workshops for parents and for high schoolers

Final note from Frances Shefter

Frances closes by reminding families: you don’t have to do this alone. She invites listeners to connect at shefterlaw.com, and previews the next episode: Episode 131, “Rethinking School and Socialization,” featuring Joseph Kavitzki from Fusion Academy of Rockville.

And the core message of this episode lingers: kids don’t need another planner added to an IEP. They need adults who can slow down, get curious, name the real skill gaps, and help them build the tools that make independence possible. If you want our help with your child’s IEP, don’t hesitate to reach out here. 

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