Welcome to the Stress-Free IEP® podcast, hosted by Frances Shefter of Shefter Law. This podcast offers insights and support for parents and educators dealing with Individualized Education Programs (IEPs). More episodes and details can be found at Shefter Law.
Meet Ann Lawyer: Special Education Expert
Today’s guest is Ann Lawyer from HandinHand Reading. Ann holds multiple certifications, including special education, academic language therapy, and structured literacy dyslexia specialization.Learn more about Ann Lawyer here!
What is a Structured Literacy Dyslexia Specialist?
A Structured Literacy Dyslexia Specialist is an educator trained to use systematic, explicit instruction to teach reading and writing, particularly tailored for individuals with dyslexia, focusing on phonology, sound-symbol association, syllable instruction, morphology, syntax, and semantics. Ann explains that this specialization involves extensive training in methods like Orton-Gillingham, which is crucial for working with severely dyslexic students.
Understanding Dyslexia and Effective Tutoring
Key Qualifications for Tutors
Ensure tutors are certified and trained in specific dyslexia methods. Ann, for example, has 750 hours of training in Orton-Gillingham methods.
The Science of Reading and Phonemic Awareness
The science of reading includes five pillars: phonics, phonemic awareness, fluency, vocabulary, and comprehension. Ann emphasizes the importance of strong foundations, especially in phonics and phonemic awareness.
Effective Tutoring Techniques
Ann stresses the need for explicit and systematic instruction. She shares an example of a seventh-grader who could read fluently but struggled with comprehension, highlighting the need for thorough assessments.
Addressing Dyslexia in Schools
The Role of Schools in Dyslexia Diagnosis
Challenges within school systems include the lack of comprehensive assessments. Frances and Ann discuss the importance of understanding IQ sub-scores and having knowledgeable advocates to help children qualify for services.
The Importance of Early Intervention
Early intervention is crucial for minimizing self-esteem issues and ensuring proper support. Ann shares success stories of students diagnosed late but who made significant progress with appropriate intervention.
Strategies for Parents and Educators
Monitoring Progress and Adjusting Interventions
Ann uses progress monitoring and tools like Seesaw for continuous engagement. If no progress is seen in six weeks, she adjusts the interventions.
Phonemic Awareness Techniques
Phonemic awareness involves manipulating individual sounds within words. Ann uses engaging activities to teach this crucial skill.
Supporting Parents
Educating parents on methods and strategies is vital. Ann has developed a spelling guide to help parents support their children effectively.
Conclusion
The Value of Specialized Tutoring
Specialized tutoring can significantly benefit dyslexic students. Ann’s one-on-one instruction and innovative tools have led to remarkable progress for her students.
Frances Shefter is an Education Attorney and Advocate who is committed to helping her clients have a Stress-Free IEP® experience. In each podcast, Frances interviews inspiring people to share information, educate you, empower you and help you get the knowledge you need.
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Stress-Free IEP®:
Frances Shefter is an Education Attorney and Advocate who is committed to helping her clients have a Stress-Free IEP® experience. In each podcast, Frances interviews inspiring people to share information, educate you, empower you and help you get the knowledge you need.
Voice-Over: Welcome to Stress-Free IEP®. You do not need to do it all alone. With your host, Frances Shefter, Principal of Shefter Law. You can get more details and catch prior episodes at www. shefterlaw. com. The Stress-Free IEP® video podcast is also posted on YouTube and LinkedIn, and you can listen to episodes through Apple podcasts, Spotify, Google podcasts, Stitcher, and more.
Now, here’s the host of Stress-Free IEP®, Frances Shefter.
Frances Shefter, Esq.: Hello everyone and welcome to the show.
Frances Shefter, Esq.: Today’s special guest is Ann Lawyer with Dynamic Education Services. Now, Ann has a bunch of different titles. First of all, she’s a special education certified, she’s a certified academic language therapist, and a structured literacy dyslexia specialist.
That’s [00:01:00] something we haven’t heard before, Ann, so give Explain, what is that Structured Literacy Dyslexia Specialty, Specialist? So,
Ann Lawyer: there are a couple of national licenses, and, uh, the Certified Academic Language Therapy is put out by ALTA, and the, uh, Structured Literacy, uh, Certification is put out by IDA.
So, and there’s only about 5, 000 people in the nation that have those certifications, so it takes a lot of work, so. Wow.
Frances Shefter, Esq.: So the first thing is when you’re looking for a tutor, what do you need to look for? So
Ann Lawyer: you definitely want someone who is certified, um, and has, uh, sit for this test. We had to have 750 hours of teaching Orton Gillingham methods.
Um, I’m trained in take flight out of Scottish Rite Hospital, but there are other programs, MC, um, and there are some other ones, but you want to make sure when you’re working with those severely dyslexic students that they have that really specialized [00:02:00] training that’s explicit and systematic.
Frances Shefter, Esq.: Right. And I think, I don’t remember if it was the last show or the show before, we had a reading specialist on and she was saying how she had her, I think she had her master’s in readings, but she never learned any special education techniques.
Ann Lawyer: Well, and I’m a special ed teacher and I’m really old and I actually didn’t learn any of those, those either. Um, I had a couple of reading classes, but it never touched on phonemic awareness and some of these really important pillars in the science of reading. And so I went in and I love reading and I thought I was doing a great job.
And I didn’t know anything and I feel bad for those kids I missed, but I know better. So I do better now. So
Frances Shefter, Esq.: we did what we could with what we do at
Ann Lawyer: that time. I look back.
Frances Shefter, Esq.: Yeah. I look back when I was teaching years ago and uh, it’s the same thing. I was like, Ooh, wow. I probably shouldn’t have done that.
You know?
Frances Shefter, Esq.: Um, but so you mentioned the science of reading. So what is the [00:03:00] science of reading?
Ann Lawyer: So the science of reading has five really big pillars and uh, there’s been a. Not a lot. There’s been a lot of controversy over the last couple years about this, and science of reading is not new. Um, it’s a very well researched material.
The National Reading Panel came out with information clear in 2000, and I remember doing a talk for someone else, and that was a comment I got back that, well, that’s really old research, but that research hasn’t changed, and so those five big pillars are the, the phonics, That’s the phonemic awareness. the fluency, the vocabulary, and reading comprehension.
When you put all those things together, then you get actually almost like a sixth pillar, which is writing. And that’s really important for the students that, that I work with. And the phonics and the phonemic awareness, I think has been the most, the area that’s been the most Um, controversial [00:04:00] in the last few years.
Frances Shefter, Esq.: Yeah. And it’s, I mean, it’s funny cause I remember like when I taught it was whole language and everything was, you know, you’d do it around the book and all that, and you didn’t teach phonics necessarily, but you know, one of the things I’ve noticed in education and I’m sure you’ve noticed also is like they, you know, the pendulum swings, Oh, we’re going to do it this way and Oh, we’re going to do it that way.
And the reality is you don’t need to pick one way. Every child learns differently. Right.
Ann Lawyer: Yes, but we still have to have that really good foundation. When I work with parents and talk with them. Um, it’s really important when I do my assessments. Can I give you an example real quick? Of course. So I have a writing assessment I did a couple weeks ago and they insisted that this student he’s a seventh grader could read and I kept asking are you sure he can read because When I ask him to write when I ask him to respond to me, it was just obvious that something was going on So if I did not have the training that I did He, when I did his, his level of reading, the [00:05:00] benchmark is 136 words a minute for seventh graders.
He hit that, no problem. However, when I asked what he had read, when I asked the vocabulary, when I asked the inference questions, there was no, almost no score. So he came to me for a writing assessment, but had I not looked deeper, I wouldn’t have been able to pinpoint that problem. And I would have been addressing the wrong issues when I worked with him.
Okay. And that’s really important.
Frances Shefter, Esq.: Yeah, it is. And I love that you said that because that’s one of the things that I have the issue with, um, with the school assessments when they do, because they, they, they, they test fluency, they test vocabulary, they test Phonics, you know, and they test comprehension. They don’t test all of them together.
Right. And our kids with dyslexia, what I found and I’ve seen is they can do each individual thing, but now push them all together and it’s not going to [00:06:00] happen.
Ann Lawyer: Yeah. And also, you know, when you look at those IQ scores and you see, like my granddaughter has a 48 point split and that is extreme and the kids I’m working with now.
Really have those extreme splits. And I feel bad because when they would use what is called that general IQ, they wouldn’t qualify for services, but you saw these huge gaps. And so I feel bad. I know now how to address it. That when I first started, they didn’t qualify for services and those kids didn’t get the intervention that they needed.
Right.
Frances Shefter, Esq.: Yeah. That’s, that’s why it’s important if you hire an advocate or an attorney, somebody to go with you is to make sure that they understand the numbers and they understand how to make the arguments to get your child to qualify.
Ann Lawyer: Yeah. And I really talk with my parents about that is it’s not just the flat numbers.
You have to look kind of what’s behind them and really educating them on [00:07:00] what those numbers mean. Right.
Frances Shefter, Esq.: Right. And then it’s also the subscores. Yes. I had a client that they were like, not eligible, not eligible, not eligible. And then the psychologist said, um, well, subscores of six is two standard deviations below.
And we use the one and a half standard deviation. And I’m like, so if there’s any sub tests, the score of six, they’d be eligible. And she’s like, yes, I’m like, okay. Spelling. And then I don’t remember the others, but there were like three and I named the three and she goes, she’s eligible. Yeah. And the rest of the team was like, You can’t argue the numbers, you know, the numbers.
Ann Lawyer: Yeah. And you have to really, when you’re talking about those sub tests, that one of those I was thinking of was a C top. So overall a student might appear okay. But when they’ve got those gaps in those sub scores, or even in the IQ tests, if their working memory is very, very low or their processing speed, that is definitely going to affect how they learn to read.
And we, we need to have more education on what those numbers look like.
Frances Shefter, Esq.: Great. [00:08:00] And then the other thing that I’ve seen they use a lot, which not everybody knows to use, is that instead of the full scale IQ, they use the GAI, the General Academic Index, because that leaves off some stuff and you get a clearer picture of where the IQ is because of when you have those gaps.
Yeah, I think it leads off working memory and processing for the GI. Right? Yeah.
Ann Lawyer: But for the kids that I work with, those are exactly where they’re having the biggest difficulty. And when we do intervention with them and it may not be working, we need those sub scores to help us.
Frances Shefter, Esq.: Yeah. Because then it helps you to pinpoint exactly what’s going on with the child, whether and.
Yeah,
Ann Lawyer: and where we
Frances Shefter, Esq.: need to spend more time, right? And because you know, I see it a lot with our kids with dyslexia, especially like i’ve seen it not come out until like Third grade or even as late as sixth seventh grade because the kids Are usually [00:09:00] bright and they, they compensate, they know how to mask it.
They know how to use the context cues, use what’s going on in the classroom, use everything else to make it seem like they’re exactly where they’re supposed to be when in reality they’re struggling.
Ann Lawyer: Yeah. And my caseload has totally flipped from burp from boys to girls. And I have mostly middle school girls.
And unfortunately, some of them have. You know, confidence issue, even self harm issues because they were these, they’re these beautifully behaved, bright young women and you know, their file cabinet got full and because they didn’t have, you know, when they go to pull that information, it’s either misfiled or not there, then they’re finally falling apart and especially Not because of COVID because this problem has existed before then, but those students that are that age because they missed that first and second grade instruction.
Wow. We are really seeing, um, [00:10:00] some gaps because of that.
Frances Shefter, Esq.: Yeah, no, I definitely see that. And I’ve had clients or potential clients, I should say, come in for a strategy session and like, you know, sixth, seventh grader, eighth grader just diagnosed with dyslexia. And I tell them flat out, like, look, as an attorney, I can 100 percent get in there.
And get you a perfect IEP. The problem is it’s not going to be what your child needs because the middle school doesn’t have the capability of doing the things and teaching in the way a child needs to do. And I say, save your money on me. Take the money, go hire a tutor that knows how to teach dyslexia, do that.
And your child will flourish like crazy.
Ann Lawyer: Yeah, and especially my students. I have two ninth graders right now that are extremely brilliant and they kind of had, and they both were just diagnosed within the last year and that was a decision they had to make and it breaks my heart. So, but sometimes I’ve, I’ve got one student that is really, really super low and [00:11:00] is trucking along.
But some of my girls, when I get in there and use like rewards or do some really explicit instruction on morphology, prefixes, and suffixes, I have one girl that made a year of progress in six weeks, and I’ve worked with another one, three or four months, and she actually made four years of growth and that.
And that, and that happens a lot. And I keep, I always am in awe of it that I don’t know what I’m doing, but it happens a lot and their confidence. And those kids, when they come to you, they’re so shut down and they don’t want to work with you. And when you see in just a month, they’re like, Oh, Well, I didn’t realize I needed to do that for spelling or that I don’t have to memorize all of that or it’s just so much relief for them.
And it has been so exciting to see. I have such a neat bunch of students right now. I really like it.
Frances Shefter, Esq.: That’s got to be amazing. I can imagine because it’s like the light bulb goes off. Oh, yeah. I used to say, right? When I taught, Everybody’s like first grade. Well, way back when, [00:12:00] when first grade was when you’re expected to read, not kindergarten, um, but like in first grade that like the kids aren’t reading, aren’t reading, and it’d be like, don’t worry, they’ll catch up.
Don’t worry. They’ll catch up. And then all of a sudden the light bulb goes off. And they shut up, they shoot up their scores and their capabilities. But that was the teacher mentality of weight. They’ll catch up as a lawyer and an advocate. Absolutely not. Never wait and see, get your child evaluated, push the school to evaluate.
If you think something’s going on because with dyslexia, If you catch it earlier, it’s better because you get it in place and then you don’t have this as many self esteem issues. Yes. Because they don’t grow up. Yeah.
Ann Lawyer: I’ve got a couple of younger students and I am so grateful their parents got help. I have a second grader.
And she’s been a little bit resistant, but then she’s like, I went to school and I read red or red cat, blue cat. And I did it better than my friend did it. And [00:13:00] finally I’ve got buy in. She finally realizes why we’re doing, cause it’s so hard after school all day to sit down, you know, so I have to be really dynamic.
I use puppets. I use, I have special pencils that I use. I have a lot of different things. Um, I use AI and they create their own pictures and. We do a lot of, a lot of really fun stuff to keep it going. So, because it is hard.
Frances Shefter, Esq.: Yeah, it is. I mean, like when you’re in, and then you feel like you’re being punished.
I mean, that’s the only thing I hate about special ed is like, that you have to do more because of your disability. And then so it’s like, you feel like, well, I’m stupid or I’m, you know what I mean? It’s, it’s that mentality of where it’s no, your brain works differently.
Ann Lawyer: Yeah. And with my older students, I try really hard to teach them strategies and have them create notebooks so that when I’m not with them, we create a spelling notebook, um, we create a morphology notebook.
Um, we work on close reading. I do something on sketch noting, which is really fun because I want to work myself out of a [00:14:00] job. So, but I want them to have, you know, we know dyslexic students need a lot of practice and sometimes they forget. So if they have kind of those reference books, they can go back and kind of review it.
And, um, still maintain those skills.
Frances Shefter, Esq.: That’s awesome. Yeah, I say that all the time. I wish I didn’t have a job. It would mean the school systems are doing what they’re supposed to be doing. All the students are getting what they need. But the reality is it’s not going to happen. So here we come. And you know, that’s part of the show is also like educating the families of what’s out there.
What do you need to know? Because I’ve heard so many stories of like, well, they’ve been with a reading tutor for six months and it hasn’t helped at all. Like, well, You might not have the right match. Not saying that reading tutor is not good, but it might not be the right match for your child. Yeah. If you, that tutor might not have the right training to know how to teach your child.
Yeah.
Ann Lawyer: Well, and that goes into those interventions. And when I’m progress monitoring, if in six weeks, I’m not seeing growth. Now [00:15:00] I have had to really adjust that this year. I have some students with selective mutism, some really, really severe students. I have a student that could not even see. Did not even know the word that, and she’s reading short vowel sentences, which is amazing.
So, um, but you have, um, because of experience, if they’re not making progress, we want to look at, you know, is their group small enough? Well, with me, it always is because it’s one on one. Okay. Is it intense enough? Are they getting enough? You know, practice for me. I usually only see my kids once or twice a week, but I provide seesaw and have activities up there so that they can work on those during the week.
Um, we also want to look at, is it the right intervention? Because, um, we have a lot of great programs. Um, I’m using you fly right now, which has been absolutely amazing. And I’m so excited. Teachers are being able to use it because even if you’re not OG trained, it is direct and explicit, and I’ve seen incredible [00:16:00] results.
I’ve used it for about two years and I’m using it all the way up to freshmen and or to ninth grade, and it’s only a K two program and I’m having. Amazing, amazing success with it, but it’s gonna get into a lot more teachers hands, which I’m super excited about. So maybe we won’t have so many referrals.
That’s my hope.
Frances Shefter, Esq.: Yeah, I mean, that’s the thing. Like, I know, at least in Montgomery County, I know I’ve seen a lot of reading interventions and so forth. Unfortunately, not All of the reading teachers are trained. Um, you know, I’ve had people on, um, reading specialists on that, but they were like, they were reading specialists.
They had no special ed training. They didn’t know Wilson. They didn’t know OG. They didn’t know any of that. And once they got in there and realized, like, I can’t teach these kids with dyslexia, they went on their own and outside of got the certification.
Ann Lawyer: Yeah. And it’s expensive. So, um, and a lot of the colleges still, um, Um, some are getting better, but a lot of them do not teach [00:17:00] or, um, the dyslexic certificates they offer, you only have to have like 25 hours and, um, that’s just not enough.
I mean, even with what I have, I’m still improving and I’ve done this for over 10 years. So, and I’m still finding new ways to be able to work with them and get better at what I do. So great.
Frances Shefter, Esq.: I want to say I was at an expo, um, the community caring disability expo, and I want to say that Towson, um, I’ll call it Towson state university and date myself.
Cause that’s when I went to it, it was, it’s now Towson university, but I believe they have a dyslexia like certification now. Um, I don’t know how good it is or not, but it’s just, it makes me happy because when I went to Towson, they didn’t have a special ed. Yeah. Um, so I did early childhood and then I had to go back and do my master’s when I was in Florida for the special ed.
Um, but like, it makes me happy to see, cause Towson was originally known as a teaching college. Yeah. So, um,
Ann Lawyer:[00:18:00] yeah. Yeah. So some of the teaching colleges. Are embracing science of reading and some are are just not yet. So yeah.
Frances Shefter, Esq.: But that’s with everything, which is just so frustrating ’cause Yeah. You know, we think we’re all getting the same education for what we’re paying for in college.
Yeah, but you’re not. Yeah. That’s really frustrating. Yeah. So I wanna go back to you brought up earlier and just for those that might not know, what is phonemic awareness?
Ann Lawyer: Okay, so there’s two terms with that. So we’ve got phonological awareness, so if we think of that as the umbrella. So when we think about the, if we break that word down, ology means study of and phone means sounds.
So it’s the study. of words is the overall arching. So those are things like syllables, rhyming. We used to think that rhyming, that kids absolutely had to have rhyming and some of the newer research is showing we can skip past that. I’ve got some dyslexic students that still can’t rhyme, but we need to move [00:19:00] on and help them with some of the other things.
Then as we drop down, we have phonemic awareness. So that E M E. When we look at morphology, it’s the smallest part, and phone, once again, is sound. So, that is more manipulating those individual sounds. So, let’s play a game for just a second. So, say the word cat. Cat. Okay. Now, change k to b. Bat. Okay. So, we could do initial sound.
We could do, say bat again. Bat. Now, change a to i. Bit.
Ann Lawyer: So we can do middle sounds, and then we can also do ending sounds. So say bit, bit. Now change the t to n.
Frances Shefter, Esq.: Bin.
Ann Lawyer: Yeah. And we can also slide in. Bit. Bit. There’s more complicated type things when we’re moving the second sound or the last sound or some of the different things like that.
So it is really important that we’re able to change those sounds up in two seconds.
Ann Lawyer: And the reason [00:20:00] for that is if our teacher’s going along and they’re down here and we’re still decoding up here, those students every time are missing that middle part of information. And it doesn’t take very long, you know, at the end of the week, you’ve missed a lot of information.
So phonemic awareness is really important.
Frances Shefter, Esq.: That makes sense. That makes sense. And I, you know, like, I know I’ve mentioned it before, we used to play games of the, the, um, animal games. My mom used to do when we would be on road trips of like, you would say a word and an animal name and the next person had to do an animal name that was of the last letter.
So like, if I said tiger, you would have to say, yep, you know, An animal that starts with R and then goes and I do that of course now with my kids because it’s just family traditions um
Ann Lawyer: Those traditions are great because those are creating those awareness of how words and sounds go together. So those are perfect,
Frances Shefter, Esq.: right?
Yeah, so they’re fun games That’s like a lot of you know a lot of fun games out there that you don’t [00:21:00] realize and I remember also what I love doing with my kids is is the, the rhyming, which I know you say you don’t need to, but like, we’ll start with bat and we’ll go bat, cat, and go through the whole alphabet and just giggle and laugh because gat isn’t a word, but it’s funny, you know, and like, you know, and things like that.
And
Ann Lawyer: knowing, is it a real word or is it a nonsense word? Those are important too, because when we do multisyllabic words, Most of those syllables are nonsense words. So that’s perfect.
Frances Shefter, Esq.: Right. Yeah. So it makes sense. Um, so with phonemic awareness, like they don’t, at least I’ve seen now, they’re not really teaching that in school anymore.
Have you seen that they are or they aren’t?
Ann Lawyer: Um, in the last couple of years, there has been a push for phonemic awareness. Um, there are, yeah, there are some programs that teach it. Um, there is some controversy over doing phonemic awareness. letters and with letters. So there’s some research coming out about that.
[00:22:00] Um, and so I’m not sure where that’s going to end up, but how do you do
Frances Shefter, Esq.: phonemic awareness without letters?
Ann Lawyer: So phonemic awareness in some of the tightest terms is considered sounds only where you could do it in the dark, just like the game that we played. We didn’t need letters. However, you know, when you think about how the brain works, we have, uh, for reading, you know, we have those sounds and they have to connect to those symbols in order to create that visual camera in the back of our head.
Um, for UFLY, they do use, they use the, the, the examples of what we did and then they add the letters in, in another part. Um, for me, adding the letters in has been more effective with most of my students. So I don’t know. So there is a lot of research coming out about that. And a lot of papers coming out about that right now.
So interesting, interesting.
Frances Shefter, Esq.: Yeah. So it’s, yeah. Seeing all the research and of course, like you [00:23:00] could find research saying one thing and then
Ann Lawyer: there’s
Frances Shefter, Esq.: always research saying the total opposite.
Ann Lawyer: Yeah.
Frances Shefter, Esq.: And yeah, you’re true.
Ann Lawyer: Yeah.
Frances Shefter, Esq.: Right. What I, what I’ve learned is that because all of our brains work differently, And so guess what?
This might work for me and not that. And that might work for my sister and not this, you know, like even from the same family, it just, we, our brains. Learn differently,
Ann Lawyer: but we still want to put down that same really good foundation for all our students. So We we might have a student that needs more help in spelling or needs more help in segmenting or blending words But we want to make sure that they all have that really good foundation.
We don’t want to make we want to make sure they don’t have those gaps
Frances Shefter, Esq.: Right, which makes sense and that and that’s where like our older children that get diagnosed a lot older Realize that that’s where you have to go get an academic language coach or you know therapist Or I don’t they keep changing all the names on what the tutors [00:24:00] You know what they call them um and so but you know, it’s so important because You If you don’t have that foundation, it doesn’t matter whatever you’re doing.
You’re never going to do anything else.
Ann Lawyer: Yeah.
Frances Shefter, Esq.: Um, you know, and, and you’re always going to struggle. And if you’re constantly struggling to just read, your comprehension is dropping, your inferences, your ability to write about it, everything falls behind as well. Yep. Absolutely. Yeah.
Frances Shefter, Esq.: So when you work with kids, you do an initial assessment.
How does it work?
Ann Lawyer: Um, it depends. Um, a lot of times I will do an assessment and then work from there. Um, sometimes I have enough information from their IEP and, um, I usually, no matter where or what I have on the student, I will do an initial phonics. I use the QPS, um, and, uh, sometimes I’ll go ahead and do a [00:25:00] fluency.
I’ve had kids that are so low that it just was so stressful for them to do. I just, you know, Um, I knew pretty much what we needed, where we needed to start. I just use it as like a temperature gauge of where I need to start with them, and then I progress monitor from there. Yeah, so assessment is really important, but sometimes I have the pieces that I need to start, so.
Frances Shefter, Esq.: Right, because if they’ve done recent assessments and things like that, and if it doesn’t, If an IEP is written well and has the present levels the way it should be, Um, you can go from there.
Ann Lawyer: Well, even if they’re not written like they should be, at least I kind of know where to start. And I kind of know how to advise the parents that this is not good IEP goals.
Frances Shefter, Esq.: Right. Yeah. And then they go back and fight that. Yeah.
Frances Shefter, Esq.: Um, and then, so like for parents that are, are looking and, and, you know, they’re like, Huh, I have a Tudor. How do they know, like, is it working? What’s the, like, what should a good language therapist or [00:26:00] Tudor, however you want to call it, be telling parents to, so that the parents understand that it is working or isn’t working?
Ann Lawyer: Well, I teach all online. And so. Um, when I, I’ve been teaching all well online since about 2018 or 19. Um, I worked for a literacy center for a long time and we expanded into that. So when COVID happened, um, we actually were ahead of the game and actually it was funny because when grants came out for COVID, we could not get any of them because our kids just kept going and we didn’t have, yeah, we didn’t have learning loss.
So, um, At first I was kind of, uh, apprehensive when parents sat with me that they were watching me, but like next week I have a parent that’s we’ve invited to the session so that they can see what we’re doing. So, um, we, you want. Um, I don’t like the term tutor because I have so much more experience in that.
So that’s also kind of important to look at. But, [00:27:00] um, we want to look at, you know, obviously the interaction with your child. Um, how are they giving you progress? So usually about every six to eight weeks, I either talk with my parents, um, I send notes, um, I email them. Um, I always let them know kind of what lesson and what concept that we’re working on and what I’d like them to work on.
Um, And that helps us keep going. And, uh, you know, sometimes when you go from short vowels to long vowels, there can be that magic y can be kind of tricky. So I’ll kind of give parents heads up, hey, we’re getting ready to go into this. You might see kind of a plateau for a little bit or, um, some struggle.
And it’s okay. We’re getting through it and they’re always welcome to come watch. So
Frances Shefter, Esq.: that makes sense. Yeah. And if you, if you have, if you have somebody that’s not willing to let a parent watch, that’s a red flag to me. I get it as a former teacher, like I don’t want the parents looking, you know, like you get nervous and stuff, [00:28:00] but if you’re doing what you’re supposed to be doing and it’s working, you know, then there shouldn’t be a reason.
Well,
Ann Lawyer: and it’s so, it’s so funny. I have so many parents in the background that all of a sudden will come and say. What did you just say that rule is? You know, because we know for dyslexia, spelling is that really big red flag. And so I’ve really been talking to my parents a lot more. And I’ve actually developed a product that I’m just getting ready to release this week on spelling for parents.
It’s a guide. And then I’ve created a really extensive 45 page guide and I created the first tool with CK and CK, but it is in parent language, so. Um, it’s not in teacher language. I rewrote it. So it was all, all accessible to the parents, because like you said, a lot of those parents had whole language. So as things are changing and we’re using sound boxes and we’re using phonemic awareness, parents don’t know what that means and they want to have their kids be successful and they want to be part of that team.
So we have to help them with that, [00:29:00]
Frances Shefter, Esq.: which it totally makes sense. Um, because if the parents don’t have the right language, how can they support it? Or if the parents don’t know the rules, because as you said, yeah,
Ann Lawyer: yeah. Cause I had a mom come home and show me this, the sound boxes. And she’s like, I have no idea what to do with this.
So I explained to her about sound boxes and how it works and everything. And she was really excited. And now they’re practicing every day, but we just needed to have that conversation of. You know, what does this mean and why are we not memorizing spelling words anymore? So that’s pretty important.
Frances Shefter, Esq.: Yeah Yeah, it’s funny.
I think back to when I was Trying to remember I want to say it was my undergrad, but it might have been my master’s but I remember in a reading class Learning the drill and skill like to teach and I was like, why didn’t I learn this stuff when I was a kid? Like, I would have probably been able to spell, you know, like these, these rules are amazing, but I wasn’t taught those rules because that’s not how they did it when I was growing up.
Me
Ann Lawyer: either. [00:30:00] And so there was a lot of that that I learned too. But, you know, when we talk about spelling that not being predictable, actually it is predictable with 85%. And if I get my kids to 85%, we can teach them the rest of it. So.
Frances Shefter, Esq.: Right. Which makes sense. Yeah. I mean, the rules. Yeah, I mean, everybody complains though English doesn’t follow all the rules.
Well, we do for the most part. Yeah, you know We have to know what those rules are. Right? Exactly. You need to talk the rules So just thinking like so for parents that think something’s going on like they’re like, huh This makes sense. Maybe my child is struggling. Maybe there is some dyslexia. What do you recommend?
Like, do you recommend asking the school to evaluate or coming to you or?
Ann Lawyer: Um, well, we always want, you know, because it’s expensive usually when they, they work with a therapist, we, um, it’s, it’s okay to ask the school for numbers, even if. [00:31:00] they’re not considered on those sit teams or academic teams, you know, when they’re saying wait, um, for the parents to know, okay, what are my numbers now in six weeks?
What are my numbers? Because those are numbers that teachers should be doing anyhow. And if there’s an issue, um, you know, really start pushing for please don’t wait. You know, we know that if third graders do not make benchmark, 75 percent of the time they will never reach benchmark without really intensive intervention.
We know now there’s very heavy signs of preschoolers have been dyslexia, so it’s not a secret and it’s not something, you know, that we can wait to do. Um, a lot of, um, consultants or, uh, Certified academic language therapists have free consultations for 20 to 30 minutes where you could talk with them and kind of decide if you want an assessment.
Um, I’m working with a company in Canada and their rules are very, very different. And so the parents have decided just [00:32:00] having that information. So that they know, do I need a academic language therapist? Can I go to the school, you know, just to give them more information is really, um, is helpful for the parents.
So, yeah,
Frances Shefter, Esq.: no, and that’s why I offer one of the things I offer is a strategy session. Like we don’t do consultations. We, we do what I call strategy sessions, which are paid right now with me. Um, but that, We talked through the issues. And like I said, like I had a client one time, it was a seventh grader, a potential client.
And I’m like, look, I could get to the IEP, but honestly go get the tutor. And that’s what the strategy sessions are for. It’s, it’s not just me selling my services. It’s what’s the problem. Let’s find the solution to the problem, whether it includes myself, you know, my team or not. This is the solution for your child.
Cause we’re very focused on the child to me. I’m a former teacher. It’s all about the child.
Ann Lawyer: And if we’re not the right match. Then, um, there’s very, very few times that I’ve not been a [00:33:00] match, but I have a few kids that online has been really difficult. And so, you know, I let them know, but it’s usually with my really, really little ones.
Um, other than that, um, online has been super, super effective. So they’re very focused. They understand about being online. I use zoom. Um, I use Seesaw, we share the screen. I have, Seesaw is amazing because they get to show what they know, they get to make their pictures so they have a little digital portfolio.
It’s really great because you can have them read at the beginning and then as they go through and it’s all dated. So in six months, when I, and when I get discouraged that they’re not making progress and I go back and look at where they are, it is amazing. And parents have access to that. So that really helps them.
Yeah. Understand where, where they’re making progress to, which is really exciting.
Frances Shefter, Esq.: That is, that’s, that’s what it’s all about is to see the progress and see the connections because it’s, you know, to me, like. Reading is such [00:34:00] a critical life skill, such a basic skill. Like until you get reading down, like you’re not, your education kind of almost comes to a halt because you really can’t do much else.
You know, like science isn’t going to make sense. Biology, you know, um, social studies, history, like you don’t have the reading down. It just kind of, you know, who’s going to want to learn anymore because I can’t read.
Ann Lawyer: Well, and how many of us have had kids that go to the bathroom, go to the nurse break their pencil because that’s how they know to cope.
So I have a lot of kids that are really amped up and really have a lot of compensatory behaviors when they start. And a lot of them really settle down once they learn to read because their brains engage, they know what they’re doing with that really explicit, systematic instruction. They know what’s coming next.
In fact, they want to teach me, Oh, I’m going to teach visual drill today, or I’m going to teach auditory drill or, And I think giving them that time to be a teacher is really powerful [00:35:00] because then they just have that confidence of what they know. So that’s been a really good strategy for me.
Frances Shefter, Esq.: Yeah, no, that’s it.
I definitely see how important that is. Um, and I say it all the time that, you know, behavior, children that, you know, students that behave, that have misbehavior in school, there’s usually two reasons. One, they’re so far behind, they’re trying to hide it. They don’t want anybody to know. Or two, they’re so far ahead, they’re bored out of their minds and they’re trying to find something to give them something.
I have
Ann Lawyer: both sometimes because I know more about. Howitzers and tanks and Russia and the Titanic. Then I thought I would ever know, but my student couldn’t spell a word. So I have absolutely brilliant students. I had one that could write binary code at age eight. I have no idea how to read it. He wrote me a hundred lines of binary code and read it all to me, but I gave him a pencil and he hid under the desk.
So, and he’s a grown up now, but yeah, he would bring in [00:36:00] tinfoil with these incredible things he could do with them. And he was brilliant, but you put that pencil in his hand and it was all over.
Frances Shefter, Esq.: Yeah. Which, and then you come in and teach them how to do it. No, everything’s together. Yeah. Um, this has been so awesome.
So if people want it, so you said you, you do virtual. So do you, is the certification like state or is it. nationwide.
Ann Lawyer: Yeah. So the cult and the, uh, the structured literacy is national. And then I have, um, I’m certified in Kansas and Missouri. So, um, as a teacher, as a teacher also, so yeah,
Frances Shefter, Esq.: as a teacher. So it doesn’t matter where you’re based.
You can reach everybody and hit everybody. I
Ann Lawyer: actually, until just recently had a student in St. Thomas. So I had students from St. Thomas all the way to Washington. So
Frances Shefter, Esq.: cool. Um, yeah. So if people want to get in touch with you, if they’re like, huh, this might be, you know, this might be the right person. I want to check things out.
What should, how should they get in touch with you?
Ann Lawyer: So [00:37:00] I’ve rebranded. And so I’m actually hand in hand reading now. And so they can reach me on Facebook or Instagram. And, um, I had a button that did not turn on this morning to offer the freebie for the, um, sound guide. They just turned it on like two minutes before we got on.
So I will be putting, um, that up so that they can look at that and get more information. Got it.
Frances Shefter, Esq.: Yeah. And we’ll, when we do the show notes, so like this one’s going live, but when we do the actual show notes and stuff, all your links will be below so that people will be able to reach out to you. But this has been so awesome and so informative.
I’m so excited. I
Ann Lawyer: got to come talk to you. So
Frances Shefter, Esq.: yeah, it’s been awesome. Thank you.
Voice-Over: You’ve been listening to Stress-Free IEP® with your host, Frances Shefter. Remember, you do not need to do it all alone. You can reach Frances through shefterlaw.com where prior episodes are also posted. Thank you for your positive reviews, comments, and [00:38:00] sharing the show with others through YouTube, LinkedIn, Apple podcasts, Spotify, Google podcasts, Stitcher, and more.
Understanding Dyslexia and Effective Tutoring Techniques with Ann Lawyer
Stress-Free IEP® with Frances Shefter, Episode 58
Introduction to Stress-Free IEP®
Welcome to the Stress-Free IEP® podcast, hosted by Frances Shefter of Shefter Law. This podcast offers insights and support for parents and educators dealing with Individualized Education Programs (IEPs). More episodes and details can be found at Shefter Law.
Meet Ann Lawyer: Special Education Expert
Today’s guest is Ann Lawyer from HandinHand Reading. Ann holds multiple certifications, including special education, academic language therapy, and structured literacy dyslexia specialization. Learn more about Ann Lawyer here!
What is a Structured Literacy Dyslexia Specialist?
A Structured Literacy Dyslexia Specialist is an educator trained to use systematic, explicit instruction to teach reading and writing, particularly tailored for individuals with dyslexia, focusing on phonology, sound-symbol association, syllable instruction, morphology, syntax, and semantics. Ann explains that this specialization involves extensive training in methods like Orton-Gillingham, which is crucial for working with severely dyslexic students.
Understanding Dyslexia and Effective Tutoring
Key Qualifications for Tutors
Ensure tutors are certified and trained in specific dyslexia methods. Ann, for example, has 750 hours of training in Orton-Gillingham methods.
The Science of Reading and Phonemic Awareness
The science of reading includes five pillars: phonics, phonemic awareness, fluency, vocabulary, and comprehension. Ann emphasizes the importance of strong foundations, especially in phonics and phonemic awareness.
Effective Tutoring Techniques
Ann stresses the need for explicit and systematic instruction. She shares an example of a seventh-grader who could read fluently but struggled with comprehension, highlighting the need for thorough assessments.
Addressing Dyslexia in Schools
The Role of Schools in Dyslexia Diagnosis
Challenges within school systems include the lack of comprehensive assessments. Frances and Ann discuss the importance of understanding IQ sub-scores and having knowledgeable advocates to help children qualify for services.
The Importance of Early Intervention
Early intervention is crucial for minimizing self-esteem issues and ensuring proper support. Ann shares success stories of students diagnosed late but who made significant progress with appropriate intervention.
Strategies for Parents and Educators
Monitoring Progress and Adjusting Interventions
Ann uses progress monitoring and tools like Seesaw for continuous engagement. If no progress is seen in six weeks, she adjusts the interventions.
Phonemic Awareness Techniques
Phonemic awareness involves manipulating individual sounds within words. Ann uses engaging activities to teach this crucial skill.
Supporting Parents
Educating parents on methods and strategies is vital. Ann has developed a spelling guide to help parents support their children effectively.
Conclusion
The Value of Specialized Tutoring
Specialized tutoring can significantly benefit dyslexic students. Ann’s one-on-one instruction and innovative tools have led to remarkable progress for her students.
Getting in Touch with Ann Lawyer
Ann has rebranded to Hand in Hand Reading and offers her services online. She can be reached on Linked In for more information.
Follow HandinHand Reading on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/handinhand_reading
Watch the previous episode mentioned during this interview: https://shefterlaw.com/2024/06/navigating-dyslexia-support-with-sarah-bobal
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Stress-Free IEP®:
Frances Shefter is an Education Attorney and Advocate who is committed to helping her clients have a Stress-Free IEP® experience. In each podcast, Frances interviews inspiring people to share information, educate you, empower you and help you get the knowledge you need.
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Stress-Free IEP®:
Frances Shefter is an Education Attorney and Advocate who is committed to helping her clients have a Stress-Free IEP® experience. In each podcast, Frances interviews inspiring people to share information, educate you, empower you and help you get the knowledge you need.
Watch more episodes of Stress-Free IEP®:
Connect and learn more from your host, Frances Shefter:
Read the whole transcript here:
Voice-Over: Welcome to Stress-Free IEP®. You do not need to do it all alone. With your host, Frances Shefter, Principal of Shefter Law. You can get more details and catch prior episodes at www. shefterlaw. com. The Stress-Free IEP® video podcast is also posted on YouTube and LinkedIn, and you can listen to episodes through Apple podcasts, Spotify, Google podcasts, Stitcher, and more.
Now, here’s the host of Stress-Free IEP®, Frances Shefter.
Frances Shefter, Esq.: Hello everyone and welcome to the show.
Frances Shefter, Esq.: Today’s special guest is Ann Lawyer with Dynamic Education Services. Now, Ann has a bunch of different titles. First of all, she’s a special education certified, she’s a certified academic language therapist, and a structured literacy dyslexia specialist.
That’s [00:01:00] something we haven’t heard before, Ann, so give Explain, what is that Structured Literacy Dyslexia Specialty, Specialist? So,
Ann Lawyer: there are a couple of national licenses, and, uh, the Certified Academic Language Therapy is put out by ALTA, and the, uh, Structured Literacy, uh, Certification is put out by IDA.
So, and there’s only about 5, 000 people in the nation that have those certifications, so it takes a lot of work, so. Wow.
Frances Shefter, Esq.: So the first thing is when you’re looking for a tutor, what do you need to look for? So
Ann Lawyer: you definitely want someone who is certified, um, and has, uh, sit for this test. We had to have 750 hours of teaching Orton Gillingham methods.
Um, I’m trained in take flight out of Scottish Rite Hospital, but there are other programs, MC, um, and there are some other ones, but you want to make sure when you’re working with those severely dyslexic students that they have that really specialized [00:02:00] training that’s explicit and systematic.
Frances Shefter, Esq.: Right. And I think, I don’t remember if it was the last show or the show before, we had a reading specialist on and she was saying how she had her, I think she had her master’s in readings, but she never learned any special education techniques.
Ann Lawyer: Well, and I’m a special ed teacher and I’m really old and I actually didn’t learn any of those, those either. Um, I had a couple of reading classes, but it never touched on phonemic awareness and some of these really important pillars in the science of reading. And so I went in and I love reading and I thought I was doing a great job.
And I didn’t know anything and I feel bad for those kids I missed, but I know better. So I do better now. So
Frances Shefter, Esq.: we did what we could with what we do at
Ann Lawyer: that time. I look back.
Frances Shefter, Esq.: Yeah. I look back when I was teaching years ago and uh, it’s the same thing. I was like, Ooh, wow. I probably shouldn’t have done that.
You know?
Frances Shefter, Esq.: Um, but so you mentioned the science of reading. So what is the [00:03:00] science of reading?
Ann Lawyer: So the science of reading has five really big pillars and uh, there’s been a. Not a lot. There’s been a lot of controversy over the last couple years about this, and science of reading is not new. Um, it’s a very well researched material.
The National Reading Panel came out with information clear in 2000, and I remember doing a talk for someone else, and that was a comment I got back that, well, that’s really old research, but that research hasn’t changed, and so those five big pillars are the, the phonics, That’s the phonemic awareness. the fluency, the vocabulary, and reading comprehension.
When you put all those things together, then you get actually almost like a sixth pillar, which is writing. And that’s really important for the students that, that I work with. And the phonics and the phonemic awareness, I think has been the most, the area that’s been the most Um, controversial [00:04:00] in the last few years.
Frances Shefter, Esq.: Yeah. And it’s, I mean, it’s funny cause I remember like when I taught it was whole language and everything was, you know, you’d do it around the book and all that, and you didn’t teach phonics necessarily, but you know, one of the things I’ve noticed in education and I’m sure you’ve noticed also is like they, you know, the pendulum swings, Oh, we’re going to do it this way and Oh, we’re going to do it that way.
And the reality is you don’t need to pick one way. Every child learns differently. Right.
Ann Lawyer: Yes, but we still have to have that really good foundation. When I work with parents and talk with them. Um, it’s really important when I do my assessments. Can I give you an example real quick? Of course. So I have a writing assessment I did a couple weeks ago and they insisted that this student he’s a seventh grader could read and I kept asking are you sure he can read because When I ask him to write when I ask him to respond to me, it was just obvious that something was going on So if I did not have the training that I did He, when I did his, his level of reading, the [00:05:00] benchmark is 136 words a minute for seventh graders.
He hit that, no problem. However, when I asked what he had read, when I asked the vocabulary, when I asked the inference questions, there was no, almost no score. So he came to me for a writing assessment, but had I not looked deeper, I wouldn’t have been able to pinpoint that problem. And I would have been addressing the wrong issues when I worked with him.
Okay. And that’s really important.
Frances Shefter, Esq.: Yeah, it is. And I love that you said that because that’s one of the things that I have the issue with, um, with the school assessments when they do, because they, they, they, they test fluency, they test vocabulary, they test Phonics, you know, and they test comprehension. They don’t test all of them together.
Right. And our kids with dyslexia, what I found and I’ve seen is they can do each individual thing, but now push them all together and it’s not going to [00:06:00] happen.
Ann Lawyer: Yeah. And also, you know, when you look at those IQ scores and you see, like my granddaughter has a 48 point split and that is extreme and the kids I’m working with now.
Really have those extreme splits. And I feel bad because when they would use what is called that general IQ, they wouldn’t qualify for services, but you saw these huge gaps. And so I feel bad. I know now how to address it. That when I first started, they didn’t qualify for services and those kids didn’t get the intervention that they needed.
Right.
Frances Shefter, Esq.: Yeah. That’s, that’s why it’s important if you hire an advocate or an attorney, somebody to go with you is to make sure that they understand the numbers and they understand how to make the arguments to get your child to qualify.
Ann Lawyer: Yeah. And I really talk with my parents about that is it’s not just the flat numbers.
You have to look kind of what’s behind them and really educating them on [00:07:00] what those numbers mean. Right.
Frances Shefter, Esq.: Right. And then it’s also the subscores. Yes. I had a client that they were like, not eligible, not eligible, not eligible. And then the psychologist said, um, well, subscores of six is two standard deviations below.
And we use the one and a half standard deviation. And I’m like, so if there’s any sub tests, the score of six, they’d be eligible. And she’s like, yes, I’m like, okay. Spelling. And then I don’t remember the others, but there were like three and I named the three and she goes, she’s eligible. Yeah. And the rest of the team was like, You can’t argue the numbers, you know, the numbers.
Ann Lawyer: Yeah. And you have to really, when you’re talking about those sub tests, that one of those I was thinking of was a C top. So overall a student might appear okay. But when they’ve got those gaps in those sub scores, or even in the IQ tests, if their working memory is very, very low or their processing speed, that is definitely going to affect how they learn to read.
And we, we need to have more education on what those numbers look like.
Frances Shefter, Esq.: Great. [00:08:00] And then the other thing that I’ve seen they use a lot, which not everybody knows to use, is that instead of the full scale IQ, they use the GAI, the General Academic Index, because that leaves off some stuff and you get a clearer picture of where the IQ is because of when you have those gaps.
Yeah, I think it leads off working memory and processing for the GI. Right? Yeah.
Ann Lawyer: But for the kids that I work with, those are exactly where they’re having the biggest difficulty. And when we do intervention with them and it may not be working, we need those sub scores to help us.
Frances Shefter, Esq.: Yeah. Because then it helps you to pinpoint exactly what’s going on with the child, whether and.
Yeah,
Ann Lawyer: and where we
Frances Shefter, Esq.: need to spend more time, right? And because you know, I see it a lot with our kids with dyslexia, especially like i’ve seen it not come out until like Third grade or even as late as sixth seventh grade because the kids Are usually [00:09:00] bright and they, they compensate, they know how to mask it.
They know how to use the context cues, use what’s going on in the classroom, use everything else to make it seem like they’re exactly where they’re supposed to be when in reality they’re struggling.
Ann Lawyer: Yeah. And my caseload has totally flipped from burp from boys to girls. And I have mostly middle school girls.
And unfortunately, some of them have. You know, confidence issue, even self harm issues because they were these, they’re these beautifully behaved, bright young women and you know, their file cabinet got full and because they didn’t have, you know, when they go to pull that information, it’s either misfiled or not there, then they’re finally falling apart and especially Not because of COVID because this problem has existed before then, but those students that are that age because they missed that first and second grade instruction.
Wow. We are really seeing, um, [00:10:00] some gaps because of that.
Frances Shefter, Esq.: Yeah, no, I definitely see that. And I’ve had clients or potential clients, I should say, come in for a strategy session and like, you know, sixth, seventh grader, eighth grader just diagnosed with dyslexia. And I tell them flat out, like, look, as an attorney, I can 100 percent get in there.
And get you a perfect IEP. The problem is it’s not going to be what your child needs because the middle school doesn’t have the capability of doing the things and teaching in the way a child needs to do. And I say, save your money on me. Take the money, go hire a tutor that knows how to teach dyslexia, do that.
And your child will flourish like crazy.
Ann Lawyer: Yeah, and especially my students. I have two ninth graders right now that are extremely brilliant and they kind of had, and they both were just diagnosed within the last year and that was a decision they had to make and it breaks my heart. So, but sometimes I’ve, I’ve got one student that is really, really super low and [00:11:00] is trucking along.
But some of my girls, when I get in there and use like rewards or do some really explicit instruction on morphology, prefixes, and suffixes, I have one girl that made a year of progress in six weeks, and I’ve worked with another one, three or four months, and she actually made four years of growth and that.
And that, and that happens a lot. And I keep, I always am in awe of it that I don’t know what I’m doing, but it happens a lot and their confidence. And those kids, when they come to you, they’re so shut down and they don’t want to work with you. And when you see in just a month, they’re like, Oh, Well, I didn’t realize I needed to do that for spelling or that I don’t have to memorize all of that or it’s just so much relief for them.
And it has been so exciting to see. I have such a neat bunch of students right now. I really like it.
Frances Shefter, Esq.: That’s got to be amazing. I can imagine because it’s like the light bulb goes off. Oh, yeah. I used to say, right? When I taught, Everybody’s like first grade. Well, way back when, [00:12:00] when first grade was when you’re expected to read, not kindergarten, um, but like in first grade that like the kids aren’t reading, aren’t reading, and it’d be like, don’t worry, they’ll catch up.
Don’t worry. They’ll catch up. And then all of a sudden the light bulb goes off. And they shut up, they shoot up their scores and their capabilities. But that was the teacher mentality of weight. They’ll catch up as a lawyer and an advocate. Absolutely not. Never wait and see, get your child evaluated, push the school to evaluate.
If you think something’s going on because with dyslexia, If you catch it earlier, it’s better because you get it in place and then you don’t have this as many self esteem issues. Yes. Because they don’t grow up. Yeah.
Ann Lawyer: I’ve got a couple of younger students and I am so grateful their parents got help. I have a second grader.
And she’s been a little bit resistant, but then she’s like, I went to school and I read red or red cat, blue cat. And I did it better than my friend did it. And [00:13:00] finally I’ve got buy in. She finally realizes why we’re doing, cause it’s so hard after school all day to sit down, you know, so I have to be really dynamic.
I use puppets. I use, I have special pencils that I use. I have a lot of different things. Um, I use AI and they create their own pictures and. We do a lot of, a lot of really fun stuff to keep it going. So, because it is hard.
Frances Shefter, Esq.: Yeah, it is. I mean, like when you’re in, and then you feel like you’re being punished.
I mean, that’s the only thing I hate about special ed is like, that you have to do more because of your disability. And then so it’s like, you feel like, well, I’m stupid or I’m, you know what I mean? It’s, it’s that mentality of where it’s no, your brain works differently.
Ann Lawyer: Yeah. And with my older students, I try really hard to teach them strategies and have them create notebooks so that when I’m not with them, we create a spelling notebook, um, we create a morphology notebook.
Um, we work on close reading. I do something on sketch noting, which is really fun because I want to work myself out of a [00:14:00] job. So, but I want them to have, you know, we know dyslexic students need a lot of practice and sometimes they forget. So if they have kind of those reference books, they can go back and kind of review it.
And, um, still maintain those skills.
Frances Shefter, Esq.: That’s awesome. Yeah, I say that all the time. I wish I didn’t have a job. It would mean the school systems are doing what they’re supposed to be doing. All the students are getting what they need. But the reality is it’s not going to happen. So here we come. And you know, that’s part of the show is also like educating the families of what’s out there.
What do you need to know? Because I’ve heard so many stories of like, well, they’ve been with a reading tutor for six months and it hasn’t helped at all. Like, well, You might not have the right match. Not saying that reading tutor is not good, but it might not be the right match for your child. Yeah. If you, that tutor might not have the right training to know how to teach your child.
Yeah.
Ann Lawyer: Well, and that goes into those interventions. And when I’m progress monitoring, if in six weeks, I’m not seeing growth. Now [00:15:00] I have had to really adjust that this year. I have some students with selective mutism, some really, really severe students. I have a student that could not even see. Did not even know the word that, and she’s reading short vowel sentences, which is amazing.
So, um, but you have, um, because of experience, if they’re not making progress, we want to look at, you know, is their group small enough? Well, with me, it always is because it’s one on one. Okay. Is it intense enough? Are they getting enough? You know, practice for me. I usually only see my kids once or twice a week, but I provide seesaw and have activities up there so that they can work on those during the week.
Um, we also want to look at, is it the right intervention? Because, um, we have a lot of great programs. Um, I’m using you fly right now, which has been absolutely amazing. And I’m so excited. Teachers are being able to use it because even if you’re not OG trained, it is direct and explicit, and I’ve seen incredible [00:16:00] results.
I’ve used it for about two years and I’m using it all the way up to freshmen and or to ninth grade, and it’s only a K two program and I’m having. Amazing, amazing success with it, but it’s gonna get into a lot more teachers hands, which I’m super excited about. So maybe we won’t have so many referrals.
That’s my hope.
Frances Shefter, Esq.: Yeah, I mean, that’s the thing. Like, I know, at least in Montgomery County, I know I’ve seen a lot of reading interventions and so forth. Unfortunately, not All of the reading teachers are trained. Um, you know, I’ve had people on, um, reading specialists on that, but they were like, they were reading specialists.
They had no special ed training. They didn’t know Wilson. They didn’t know OG. They didn’t know any of that. And once they got in there and realized, like, I can’t teach these kids with dyslexia, they went on their own and outside of got the certification.
Ann Lawyer: Yeah. And it’s expensive. So, um, and a lot of the colleges still, um, Um, some are getting better, but a lot of them do not teach [00:17:00] or, um, the dyslexic certificates they offer, you only have to have like 25 hours and, um, that’s just not enough.
I mean, even with what I have, I’m still improving and I’ve done this for over 10 years. So, and I’m still finding new ways to be able to work with them and get better at what I do. So great.
Frances Shefter, Esq.: I want to say I was at an expo, um, the community caring disability expo, and I want to say that Towson, um, I’ll call it Towson state university and date myself.
Cause that’s when I went to it, it was, it’s now Towson university, but I believe they have a dyslexia like certification now. Um, I don’t know how good it is or not, but it’s just, it makes me happy because when I went to Towson, they didn’t have a special ed. Yeah. Um, so I did early childhood and then I had to go back and do my master’s when I was in Florida for the special ed.
Um, but like, it makes me happy to see, cause Towson was originally known as a teaching college. Yeah. So, um,
Ann Lawyer: [00:18:00] yeah. Yeah. So some of the teaching colleges. Are embracing science of reading and some are are just not yet. So yeah.
Frances Shefter, Esq.: But that’s with everything, which is just so frustrating ’cause Yeah. You know, we think we’re all getting the same education for what we’re paying for in college.
Yeah, but you’re not. Yeah. That’s really frustrating. Yeah. So I wanna go back to you brought up earlier and just for those that might not know, what is phonemic awareness?
Ann Lawyer: Okay, so there’s two terms with that. So we’ve got phonological awareness, so if we think of that as the umbrella. So when we think about the, if we break that word down, ology means study of and phone means sounds.
So it’s the study. of words is the overall arching. So those are things like syllables, rhyming. We used to think that rhyming, that kids absolutely had to have rhyming and some of the newer research is showing we can skip past that. I’ve got some dyslexic students that still can’t rhyme, but we need to move [00:19:00] on and help them with some of the other things.
Then as we drop down, we have phonemic awareness. So that E M E. When we look at morphology, it’s the smallest part, and phone, once again, is sound. So, that is more manipulating those individual sounds. So, let’s play a game for just a second. So, say the word cat. Cat. Okay. Now, change k to b. Bat. Okay. So, we could do initial sound.
We could do, say bat again. Bat. Now, change a to i. Bit.
Ann Lawyer: So we can do middle sounds, and then we can also do ending sounds. So say bit, bit. Now change the t to n.
Frances Shefter, Esq.: Bin.
Ann Lawyer: Yeah. And we can also slide in. Bit. Bit. There’s more complicated type things when we’re moving the second sound or the last sound or some of the different things like that.
So it is really important that we’re able to change those sounds up in two seconds.
Ann Lawyer: And the reason [00:20:00] for that is if our teacher’s going along and they’re down here and we’re still decoding up here, those students every time are missing that middle part of information. And it doesn’t take very long, you know, at the end of the week, you’ve missed a lot of information.
So phonemic awareness is really important.
Frances Shefter, Esq.: That makes sense. That makes sense. And I, you know, like, I know I’ve mentioned it before, we used to play games of the, the, um, animal games. My mom used to do when we would be on road trips of like, you would say a word and an animal name and the next person had to do an animal name that was of the last letter.
So like, if I said tiger, you would have to say, yep, you know, An animal that starts with R and then goes and I do that of course now with my kids because it’s just family traditions um
Ann Lawyer: Those traditions are great because those are creating those awareness of how words and sounds go together. So those are perfect,
Frances Shefter, Esq.: right?
Yeah, so they’re fun games That’s like a lot of you know a lot of fun games out there that you don’t [00:21:00] realize and I remember also what I love doing with my kids is is the, the rhyming, which I know you say you don’t need to, but like, we’ll start with bat and we’ll go bat, cat, and go through the whole alphabet and just giggle and laugh because gat isn’t a word, but it’s funny, you know, and like, you know, and things like that.
And
Ann Lawyer: knowing, is it a real word or is it a nonsense word? Those are important too, because when we do multisyllabic words, Most of those syllables are nonsense words. So that’s perfect.
Frances Shefter, Esq.: Right. Yeah. So it makes sense. Um, so with phonemic awareness, like they don’t, at least I’ve seen now, they’re not really teaching that in school anymore.
Have you seen that they are or they aren’t?
Ann Lawyer: Um, in the last couple of years, there has been a push for phonemic awareness. Um, there are, yeah, there are some programs that teach it. Um, there is some controversy over doing phonemic awareness. letters and with letters. So there’s some research coming out about that.
[00:22:00] Um, and so I’m not sure where that’s going to end up, but how do you do
Frances Shefter, Esq.: phonemic awareness without letters?
Ann Lawyer: So phonemic awareness in some of the tightest terms is considered sounds only where you could do it in the dark, just like the game that we played. We didn’t need letters. However, you know, when you think about how the brain works, we have, uh, for reading, you know, we have those sounds and they have to connect to those symbols in order to create that visual camera in the back of our head.
Um, for UFLY, they do use, they use the, the, the examples of what we did and then they add the letters in, in another part. Um, for me, adding the letters in has been more effective with most of my students. So I don’t know. So there is a lot of research coming out about that. And a lot of papers coming out about that right now.
So interesting, interesting.
Frances Shefter, Esq.: Yeah. So it’s, yeah. Seeing all the research and of course, like you [00:23:00] could find research saying one thing and then
Ann Lawyer: there’s
Frances Shefter, Esq.: always research saying the total opposite.
Ann Lawyer: Yeah.
Frances Shefter, Esq.: And yeah, you’re true.
Ann Lawyer: Yeah.
Frances Shefter, Esq.: Right. What I, what I’ve learned is that because all of our brains work differently, And so guess what?
This might work for me and not that. And that might work for my sister and not this, you know, like even from the same family, it just, we, our brains. Learn differently,
Ann Lawyer: but we still want to put down that same really good foundation for all our students. So We we might have a student that needs more help in spelling or needs more help in segmenting or blending words But we want to make sure that they all have that really good foundation.
We don’t want to make we want to make sure they don’t have those gaps
Frances Shefter, Esq.: Right, which makes sense and that and that’s where like our older children that get diagnosed a lot older Realize that that’s where you have to go get an academic language coach or you know therapist Or I don’t they keep changing all the names on what the tutors [00:24:00] You know what they call them um and so but you know, it’s so important because You If you don’t have that foundation, it doesn’t matter whatever you’re doing.
You’re never going to do anything else.
Ann Lawyer: Yeah.
Frances Shefter, Esq.: Um, you know, and, and you’re always going to struggle. And if you’re constantly struggling to just read, your comprehension is dropping, your inferences, your ability to write about it, everything falls behind as well. Yep. Absolutely. Yeah.
Frances Shefter, Esq.: So when you work with kids, you do an initial assessment.
How does it work?
Ann Lawyer: Um, it depends. Um, a lot of times I will do an assessment and then work from there. Um, sometimes I have enough information from their IEP and, um, I usually, no matter where or what I have on the student, I will do an initial phonics. I use the QPS, um, and, uh, sometimes I’ll go ahead and do a [00:25:00] fluency.
I’ve had kids that are so low that it just was so stressful for them to do. I just, you know, Um, I knew pretty much what we needed, where we needed to start. I just use it as like a temperature gauge of where I need to start with them, and then I progress monitor from there. Yeah, so assessment is really important, but sometimes I have the pieces that I need to start, so.
Frances Shefter, Esq.: Right, because if they’ve done recent assessments and things like that, and if it doesn’t, If an IEP is written well and has the present levels the way it should be, Um, you can go from there.
Ann Lawyer: Well, even if they’re not written like they should be, at least I kind of know where to start. And I kind of know how to advise the parents that this is not good IEP goals.
Frances Shefter, Esq.: Right. Yeah. And then they go back and fight that. Yeah.
Frances Shefter, Esq.: Um, and then, so like for parents that are, are looking and, and, you know, they’re like, Huh, I have a Tudor. How do they know, like, is it working? What’s the, like, what should a good language therapist or [00:26:00] Tudor, however you want to call it, be telling parents to, so that the parents understand that it is working or isn’t working?
Ann Lawyer: Well, I teach all online. And so. Um, when I, I’ve been teaching all well online since about 2018 or 19. Um, I worked for a literacy center for a long time and we expanded into that. So when COVID happened, um, we actually were ahead of the game and actually it was funny because when grants came out for COVID, we could not get any of them because our kids just kept going and we didn’t have, yeah, we didn’t have learning loss.
So, um, At first I was kind of, uh, apprehensive when parents sat with me that they were watching me, but like next week I have a parent that’s we’ve invited to the session so that they can see what we’re doing. So, um, we, you want. Um, I don’t like the term tutor because I have so much more experience in that.
So that’s also kind of important to look at. But, [00:27:00] um, we want to look at, you know, obviously the interaction with your child. Um, how are they giving you progress? So usually about every six to eight weeks, I either talk with my parents, um, I send notes, um, I email them. Um, I always let them know kind of what lesson and what concept that we’re working on and what I’d like them to work on.
Um, And that helps us keep going. And, uh, you know, sometimes when you go from short vowels to long vowels, there can be that magic y can be kind of tricky. So I’ll kind of give parents heads up, hey, we’re getting ready to go into this. You might see kind of a plateau for a little bit or, um, some struggle.
And it’s okay. We’re getting through it and they’re always welcome to come watch. So
Frances Shefter, Esq.: that makes sense. Yeah. And if you, if you have, if you have somebody that’s not willing to let a parent watch, that’s a red flag to me. I get it as a former teacher, like I don’t want the parents looking, you know, like you get nervous and stuff, [00:28:00] but if you’re doing what you’re supposed to be doing and it’s working, you know, then there shouldn’t be a reason.
Well,
Ann Lawyer: and it’s so, it’s so funny. I have so many parents in the background that all of a sudden will come and say. What did you just say that rule is? You know, because we know for dyslexia, spelling is that really big red flag. And so I’ve really been talking to my parents a lot more. And I’ve actually developed a product that I’m just getting ready to release this week on spelling for parents.
It’s a guide. And then I’ve created a really extensive 45 page guide and I created the first tool with CK and CK, but it is in parent language, so. Um, it’s not in teacher language. I rewrote it. So it was all, all accessible to the parents, because like you said, a lot of those parents had whole language. So as things are changing and we’re using sound boxes and we’re using phonemic awareness, parents don’t know what that means and they want to have their kids be successful and they want to be part of that team.
So we have to help them with that, [00:29:00]
Frances Shefter, Esq.: which it totally makes sense. Um, because if the parents don’t have the right language, how can they support it? Or if the parents don’t know the rules, because as you said, yeah,
Ann Lawyer: yeah. Cause I had a mom come home and show me this, the sound boxes. And she’s like, I have no idea what to do with this.
So I explained to her about sound boxes and how it works and everything. And she was really excited. And now they’re practicing every day, but we just needed to have that conversation of. You know, what does this mean and why are we not memorizing spelling words anymore? So that’s pretty important.
Frances Shefter, Esq.: Yeah Yeah, it’s funny.
I think back to when I was Trying to remember I want to say it was my undergrad, but it might have been my master’s but I remember in a reading class Learning the drill and skill like to teach and I was like, why didn’t I learn this stuff when I was a kid? Like, I would have probably been able to spell, you know, like these, these rules are amazing, but I wasn’t taught those rules because that’s not how they did it when I was growing up.
Me
Ann Lawyer: either. [00:30:00] And so there was a lot of that that I learned too. But, you know, when we talk about spelling that not being predictable, actually it is predictable with 85%. And if I get my kids to 85%, we can teach them the rest of it. So.
Frances Shefter, Esq.: Right. Which makes sense. Yeah. I mean, the rules. Yeah, I mean, everybody complains though English doesn’t follow all the rules.
Well, we do for the most part. Yeah, you know We have to know what those rules are. Right? Exactly. You need to talk the rules So just thinking like so for parents that think something’s going on like they’re like, huh This makes sense. Maybe my child is struggling. Maybe there is some dyslexia. What do you recommend?
Like, do you recommend asking the school to evaluate or coming to you or?
Ann Lawyer: Um, well, we always want, you know, because it’s expensive usually when they, they work with a therapist, we, um, it’s, it’s okay to ask the school for numbers, even if. [00:31:00] they’re not considered on those sit teams or academic teams, you know, when they’re saying wait, um, for the parents to know, okay, what are my numbers now in six weeks?
What are my numbers? Because those are numbers that teachers should be doing anyhow. And if there’s an issue, um, you know, really start pushing for please don’t wait. You know, we know that if third graders do not make benchmark, 75 percent of the time they will never reach benchmark without really intensive intervention.
We know now there’s very heavy signs of preschoolers have been dyslexia, so it’s not a secret and it’s not something, you know, that we can wait to do. Um, a lot of, um, consultants or, uh, Certified academic language therapists have free consultations for 20 to 30 minutes where you could talk with them and kind of decide if you want an assessment.
Um, I’m working with a company in Canada and their rules are very, very different. And so the parents have decided just [00:32:00] having that information. So that they know, do I need a academic language therapist? Can I go to the school, you know, just to give them more information is really, um, is helpful for the parents.
So, yeah,
Frances Shefter, Esq.: no, and that’s why I offer one of the things I offer is a strategy session. Like we don’t do consultations. We, we do what I call strategy sessions, which are paid right now with me. Um, but that, We talked through the issues. And like I said, like I had a client one time, it was a seventh grader, a potential client.
And I’m like, look, I could get to the IEP, but honestly go get the tutor. And that’s what the strategy sessions are for. It’s, it’s not just me selling my services. It’s what’s the problem. Let’s find the solution to the problem, whether it includes myself, you know, my team or not. This is the solution for your child.
Cause we’re very focused on the child to me. I’m a former teacher. It’s all about the child.
Ann Lawyer: And if we’re not the right match. Then, um, there’s very, very few times that I’ve not been a [00:33:00] match, but I have a few kids that online has been really difficult. And so, you know, I let them know, but it’s usually with my really, really little ones.
Um, other than that, um, online has been super, super effective. So they’re very focused. They understand about being online. I use zoom. Um, I use Seesaw, we share the screen. I have, Seesaw is amazing because they get to show what they know, they get to make their pictures so they have a little digital portfolio.
It’s really great because you can have them read at the beginning and then as they go through and it’s all dated. So in six months, when I, and when I get discouraged that they’re not making progress and I go back and look at where they are, it is amazing. And parents have access to that. So that really helps them.
Yeah. Understand where, where they’re making progress to, which is really exciting.
Frances Shefter, Esq.: That is, that’s, that’s what it’s all about is to see the progress and see the connections because it’s, you know, to me, like. Reading is such [00:34:00] a critical life skill, such a basic skill. Like until you get reading down, like you’re not, your education kind of almost comes to a halt because you really can’t do much else.
You know, like science isn’t going to make sense. Biology, you know, um, social studies, history, like you don’t have the reading down. It just kind of, you know, who’s going to want to learn anymore because I can’t read.
Ann Lawyer: Well, and how many of us have had kids that go to the bathroom, go to the nurse break their pencil because that’s how they know to cope.
So I have a lot of kids that are really amped up and really have a lot of compensatory behaviors when they start. And a lot of them really settle down once they learn to read because their brains engage, they know what they’re doing with that really explicit, systematic instruction. They know what’s coming next.
In fact, they want to teach me, Oh, I’m going to teach visual drill today, or I’m going to teach auditory drill or, And I think giving them that time to be a teacher is really powerful [00:35:00] because then they just have that confidence of what they know. So that’s been a really good strategy for me.
Frances Shefter, Esq.: Yeah, no, that’s it.
I definitely see how important that is. Um, and I say it all the time that, you know, behavior, children that, you know, students that behave, that have misbehavior in school, there’s usually two reasons. One, they’re so far behind, they’re trying to hide it. They don’t want anybody to know. Or two, they’re so far ahead, they’re bored out of their minds and they’re trying to find something to give them something.
I have
Ann Lawyer: both sometimes because I know more about. Howitzers and tanks and Russia and the Titanic. Then I thought I would ever know, but my student couldn’t spell a word. So I have absolutely brilliant students. I had one that could write binary code at age eight. I have no idea how to read it. He wrote me a hundred lines of binary code and read it all to me, but I gave him a pencil and he hid under the desk.
So, and he’s a grown up now, but yeah, he would bring in [00:36:00] tinfoil with these incredible things he could do with them. And he was brilliant, but you put that pencil in his hand and it was all over.
Frances Shefter, Esq.: Yeah. Which, and then you come in and teach them how to do it. No, everything’s together. Yeah. Um, this has been so awesome.
So if people want it, so you said you, you do virtual. So do you, is the certification like state or is it. nationwide.
Ann Lawyer: Yeah. So the cult and the, uh, the structured literacy is national. And then I have, um, I’m certified in Kansas and Missouri. So, um, as a teacher, as a teacher also, so yeah,
Frances Shefter, Esq.: as a teacher. So it doesn’t matter where you’re based.
You can reach everybody and hit everybody. I
Ann Lawyer: actually, until just recently had a student in St. Thomas. So I had students from St. Thomas all the way to Washington. So
Frances Shefter, Esq.: cool. Um, yeah. So if people want to get in touch with you, if they’re like, huh, this might be, you know, this might be the right person. I want to check things out.
What should, how should they get in touch with you?
Ann Lawyer: So [00:37:00] I’ve rebranded. And so I’m actually hand in hand reading now. And so they can reach me on Facebook or Instagram. And, um, I had a button that did not turn on this morning to offer the freebie for the, um, sound guide. They just turned it on like two minutes before we got on.
So I will be putting, um, that up so that they can look at that and get more information. Got it.
Frances Shefter, Esq.: Yeah. And we’ll, when we do the show notes, so like this one’s going live, but when we do the actual show notes and stuff, all your links will be below so that people will be able to reach out to you. But this has been so awesome and so informative.
I’m so excited. I
Ann Lawyer: got to come talk to you. So
Frances Shefter, Esq.: yeah, it’s been awesome. Thank you.
Voice-Over: You’ve been listening to Stress-Free IEP® with your host, Frances Shefter. Remember, you do not need to do it all alone. You can reach Frances through shefterlaw.com where prior episodes are also posted. Thank you for your positive reviews, comments, and [00:38:00] sharing the show with others through YouTube, LinkedIn, Apple podcasts, Spotify, Google podcasts, Stitcher, and more.
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