In this episode of Stress-Free IEP®, Frances Shefter speaks with Jamilah Bashir, Founder of the IEP Coach LLC. Jamilah F. Bashir is the founder of The IEP Coach LLC, an Education Consultant, and IEP Coach for special education teachers, helping them to balance being a teacher and case manager so they can level up at work and at home. She also helps parents navigate the often complex IEP process with more peace and ease.
Jamilah is a sought-after guest and speaker, sharing her wisdom on stages such as Educators Moving On (EMON) LIVE Conference and the 12th Annual Progressive Education Summit. She has been featured on podcasts such as The Impact of Educational Leadership with Isiah Drone and The Dope Muslim Woman Podcast. Jamilah is also the proud recipient of the Advocate for Me, LLC and Jordan A. Smith Foundation Award.
Tune in to the episode to hear about:
Jamilah’s personal connection to special education
How to read an IEP
IEP courses for Parents and Teachers
The importance of data tracking for progress reporting
Frances Shefter is an Education Attorney and Advocate who is committed to helping her clients have a Stress-Free IEP® experience. In each podcast, Frances interviews inspiring people to share information, educate you, empower you and help you get the knowledge you need.
VOICEOVER: (00:00:04): Welcome to Stress-Free IEP®. You do not need to do it all alone with your host, Frances Shefter, Principal of Shafter Law. You can get more details and catch prior episodes at www.shefterlaw.com. The Stress-Free IEP® video podcast is also posted on YouTube and LinkedIn and you can listen to episodes through Apple podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher and more. Now, here’s the host of Stress Free IEP® Frances Shefter. Now here’s the host.
Frances Shefter: (00:00:42): Hello, everyone and welcome to the show. Today’s special guest. I am so excited to have is Jamilah Bashir who is the IEP coach. And I have to tell you, I am so excited to have her because I love watching her social media. So first of all, if you’re not following her, you need to go follow her. She’s got awesome posts. So, Jamilah , please, you know, pop on, let us know. Tell us a little. What about yourself?
Jamilah Bashir: (00:01:07): Sure. Thank you so much. So, yes, follow me at the IEP coach LLC Instagram, Tiktok, Facebook, all that. But thank you so much for having me. First of all, I’m just so excited to be here. We finally were able to, you know, connect and just your whole story. I’m just so that’s so amazing, like I said, but yes, I’m Jamilah aka, the IEP coach and I’m the founder and lead consultant of the IEP coach LLC. We are educated consulting company and we specialize in providing special education centered support to teachers, paraprofessionals, instructional assistants and parents. So we do that through professional development, we do it through coaching, we do it through parent workshops. So our focus is clearly special education. That is a huge passion of mine. And I fell in love with special education due to my little sister having an intellectual disability. So that’s where the passion grew from. And then helping my mom educating my mom while I was in school sharing information with her. That’s where my love for advocating for parents came from and then being a SpEd teacher myself, then being a SpEd supervisor, that’s where my love for supporting teachers came from. So we find it best supporting teachers as well as parents because in the end, ultimately, it benefits the students.
Frances Shefter: (00:02:24): And because we’re all a team and I love it because it’s so similar to my story of being a former teacher in Special Ed and then the leader. And it’s, you know, there’s another special ed attorney and I joke around a lot about that we need to do a course for teachers of how not to get sued you know, which, I mean, probably you put it a little bit better just training on the IEPs because, you know, I don’t know your experience but I know from, even when I was a teacher we’re never really taught how to write. IEPs.
Jamilah Bashir: (00:02:54): No, you’re not. It’s like, ok, you, you got a degree in special education? You, oh, you got your, your license? Ok. Here. And it’s like you’re thrown in there and it’s like, and it’s like when you’re in college you don’t really learn the basics of writing an IEP and leading an IEP meeting. Therefore, when you get out into the field, you make mistakes, especially if you don’t have a coach and you don’t have someone showing you giving you that immediate feedback, showing you how to do it. This is what you should have to say. This is how you need to write that. This is how you need to address the parent. If you don’t have that, you will make those mistakes and unfortunately some of those mistakes can land your district into a lawsuit.
Frances Shefter: (00:03:40): Right. Yeah. And it’s, and I feel bad because, you know, these new, new teachers are thrown out there and having to deal with it and having to do stuff and allegedly there’s, you know, higher ups that are supposed to be supporting them, the instructional specialists or whatever they call them in the specific areas, but they’re not always supporting because they have too many to support.
Jamilah Bashir: (00:04:01): Because some caseload, depending where you are, if you don’t have enough, uh, special education teachers, it’s like, ok, well, you already divvied the kids out amongst the teachers you have and you already gave them too much. So now if you are the special education liaison or if you’re the supervisor in your school, you have to take the rest because you can’t put the rest on those teachers And it’s like you barely have time to do it because you’re supposed to be coaching honestly and supporting, not just the sped teachers but general teachers too, with differentiating instruction, et cetera. But you can’t because you’re, you’re bombarded with all this paperwork and that’s something that, that gets me is where you have schools. Yes, they have their SPED director or they have their SPED supervisors but they can’t really get in the classrooms to coach the teachers. It’s like, ok, we did PE in the beginning of the year, ok, everyone has their caseload. If you got a question, email me, they’re trying to keep their head above water, right? And he can’t really support you.
Frances Shefter: (00:05:05): Right. And to say if you have a question, email me well, with new teachers, I didn’t know what, I didn’t know, you know, like we’re just doing what we gotta do. Or as my business coach says, we’re building the plane as we’re flying in the air because you kinda like.
Jamilah Bashir: (00:05:23): That’s exactly what it’s like. It’s like, and I hate saying this, like, you get thrown to the wolves, but that’s, that, that’s what it feels like. You’re either if you wanna use, thrown to the wolves or you’re thrown into the ocean and you have to, and you either gonna sink or you’re gonna do as much as you can to keep your head up of water to breathe until you get to shore. And it’s like when you get to your, the breaks throughout the year, it’s like, oh my God, I can breathe now. But even sometimes with that you’re like, you may take work with me home because you’re like, oh, I’m not at work. I can really get caught up on my IEPs or on progress monitoring, et cetera. And then it’s like you didn’t really have a break because you were working.
Frances Shefter: (00:06:11): And I remember, when I taught that summer was like, June was a, you know, the end of June, beginning of July was all of our time was spent on going to the doctors because we’ve neglected all of our doctors and our health all year. And then it’s like, ok, you know, I’m good. I’ve gotten all the doctors. I can relax. I can enjoy my summer and then it’s like, oh my God, it’s August already.
Jamilah Bashir: (00:06:33): You know, it’s like, and it’s like time to go back. It’s like, yes.
Frances Shefter: (00:06:40): Yeah. So it’s definitely, , but I love also, like you say that it’s collaboration. Like I always say, at my IEP meetings, I tell the teachers, I tell the team. I’m like, look, yes, I am an attorney. Yes, I have the law degree, but I’m also a mom and I was a teacher and I was a special ed teacher and I get it. We’re here to focus on the child and to work as a team on the child. And I know that’s a big thing that you say is why the teachers and the parents how to collaborate. How do you like help with that to make, you know, get our village stronger?
Jamilah Bashir: (00:07:15): Well, for one with the parents, I do explain the whole process because a lot of the a lot of parents don’t understand the process and don’t understand, oh this is how long it’s going, the evaluation process will take, this is how long it’s gonna take to write an IEP, you know, just so they understand like, OK, this is the, the the timeline of things and then also understand like, you know how you’re at work, the teacher is at work too. So they may not be able to get on the phone call with you to have a conversation, you can get a quicker response if you email them and then also just take into account, be mindful. If you do get on the phone with them, they may have 10 minutes, they may have 15 minutes. You know what I mean? And then from the teachers side, just being mindful of when the parent is working and when they’re not working, do they prefer a phone call? Do they prefer you to text them? Just that information and just even keeping open communication? Like, oh, here’s something that may be beneficial to your child or? Oh, just a reminder I’m going to be doing boom, boom, boom, boom with, you know what I mean? Just keeping that communication open. Like, even if they don’t email you back or call you back the fact that they know you’re constantly reaching out to them. They, notice it, you know what I mean? And they see it so they may feel more comfortable to open up to you. But it’s very, very important to build connections with your parents and parents, building a connection with the teacher as well. Just so that you are both or just on a united front and keeping the, the student it’s needs at the front. Like focus on your needs. You’ll be good. I said that all the time focus on what the kid needs. We’ll all be good.
Frances Shefter: (00:08:55): Exactly. That’s so true. You know, like I had a client and now I tell other clients to do it. That brings a picture of the kid for all the meetings. I was like, this is who we’re talking about. It’s not this paper we’re talking about this child. And what this child needs. And I know like the communication is a big thing. I think a lot of times when I look at cases, like when they get to the point of me filing due process, I look at it and I’m like, you know what, there was a breakdown in the communication at this point and that’s what happened and then the disagreement started and then it kept building and now we’re litigating it where I was like, if that open communication and honesty was there in the beginning, it might not have gotten to this point.
Jamilah Bashir: (00:9:39): Right. Absolutely. And then, like, also like, with some parents sometimes, like, I would get so many different phone numbers and I’m just like, OK, which, which one can I reach you? And then sometimes the parents don’t wanna be reaching, I’m like, I it’s very, very important and it’s like it was to the point like sometimes I’m talking to the student, I’m like, it is very important that you tell your parents, you know, whoever is taking care of you, grandma for any, whoever’s taking care of it. It is very important that they contact me because I need to have a conversation. It is, you know what I mean? That was, I wanna say when it got to that point. Some I’m like, OK, going to my principal, I think we need to have someone go to the house because it’s very important because I don’t want this kid to go out of compliance. I don’t want that to happen. It’s very important that I, you know, get in contact with this parent, you know, whatever. And then it, there were some parents who would say, you know, what you can call me at work and I’m like, ok, you know, thank you. And I’m like, don’t worry, I’m just gonna call you just, you know, just about that. But it’s like when that communication is not there, then it’s like, ok, the parents gonna make assumptions of what’s going on, you’re making assumptions about what the parent like, oh my God, that parent didn’t call me back, but you may not realize the parent may work nights. So they’re sleeping, you know, in the morning or like halfway through the day because they work at night, you know. So it’s like, like you said, having that clear communication. So that way it kills any assumptions and just like you said, just being very honest about your situation. So that way the school can plan accordingly because then like, say if you’re in some type of, you know, need as a parent, there are resources, the school that can, can connect you with or there or it’s something that school can do for you, but we won’t know unless, you know, you’re honest about the situation,
Frances Shefter: (00:11:22): Right. And it’s, you know, I don’t think a parent ever is like, oh, my God, that teacher is the worst teacher ever. Well, there are sometimes, but it’s not like that. Right. Right. But, I mean, but even then you don’t go into teaching for the money, we all know that and if you go into the teaching for the love of the children and to teach the children and so maybe they’re not a great teacher, but their heart is in the right place and it’s kind of, you know, every time I say I do not bash teachers ever, their jobs are hard enough. Do they make mistakes 100%? Do I have to point out those mistakes if we’re litigating? Yes, I do because that’s my job and their job is to do their job, which I understand is difficult at times and they need to be asking for help and that’s always a challenge. But, you know, there’s a lot of times I’ll tell clients at the beginning of the year. , and I do this with my own kids, like at the open house, if you can or just set up a quick meeting with the teacher at the beginning of every school year. Just have a quick little, hey, here, you know, here are some things that might be helpful. For me, right, like for example, so my older daughter needs a little calm down place and she needs a little tight space that nobody can see her and that’s what she, and if she doesn’t have that. She’s gonna, like, go to the bathroom and find a place or go sit in her locker. So, at the beginning of the school year I talked to the teacher, I’m like, hey, you know, just letting you know and she goes, I mean, this teacher was phenomenal because she said, oh, yeah. Yeah, we already have it figured out. It’s over there and she knows when to do it and she knows how to do it and it’s all good. But she’s a seasoned teacher with a newer teacher might not have known that. So it’s kind of like, let’s have that conversation with the teacher being like, look, I want to support you. Let’s talk together of what we can do to make this a good experience for everyone. Yeah.
Jamilah Bashir: (00:13:12): I always tell parents, like, in the beginning of the year, like, have a meeting with the whole team, like, have a meeting with all your kids teachers, you know, let them know, like, listen, I’m not trying to take up all your time. This will last no more than 15 minutes. But you may just want to share some information or, you know, any, you know, anything like that and it’s easy to have. Oh, I got all your teachers here. Perfect. I’m so, and so’s mom, dad, whatever, you know, just share that information about your child. And then also it’s a, it’s a nice way for you to put names with faces even though you might, you might forget. But, like, you could put names with faces, you know what I mean? And they can, you know, get to meet you and understand like, ok, this mom did, this parent is involved or whatever and also you just, you’re able to answer questions that you may have just about a particular subject or anything like that. I’ve had several parents do that.
Frances Shefter: (00:13:59): Right. Yeah. No. And it just, it opens that communication. I know, you know, as a teacher remembering when the parents would come in and I was always appreciative because like, yeah, we get an IEP we get a piece of paper to read about our kids that doesn’t tell us anything about the child when a parent comes in and gives me that little bit of information. And always what I like to share is that we’re not trying to take up your time, we’re not trying, you know, we just want to save time later. Like, let’s be proactive now to put these, this stuff in place so that we have that open line of communication. So we don’t have difficulties later.
Jamilah Bashir: (00:14:30): Right? And then when I would when I was still in the classroom, I will always review all my IEPs. Like I had a, I had a clipboard, I was writing the kid’s name down like, OK, well, who has related services? How often I’m like, I’m writing all things down in any particular SDIs that may be out of the norm that I’ve never really seen. , I make sure I write those down and once the school year starts it, like, ok, I know who gets to check in, check out et cetera. And if I see anything new with the student and I don’t see it listed in the IEPi contact the previous case, I have no problem doing it because I am, like, wait a second, I don’t see any of this in the IEP what’s going on here? You know what I mean? Because I’m like, I doubt this just started this year. I’m sure this was occurring previously, you know what happened, you know. So yeah, like, and, and that’s just extra time that you have to do and again, if you don’t have a coach or somebody helping you with that and guiding you through that, you’re like, oh my, you get overwhelmed just by looking at an IEP because it’s so thick and it’s like, no, no, no, look through this section. Go to this section, ok? You know, skim through, this is gonna tell you about the kid. Now flip to this section. This is gonna tell you what to do for this kid and then this section, ok? Here are the goal like, you know what I mean? It’s like you gotta, again, if you don’t have no one showing you that how to do that, it can be extremely overwhelming.
Frances Shefter: (00:15:56): Yeah. And then depending on how, on your school system because all the school systems do it differently on, on what the IEP looks like. You know, federal law says this, these are the eight parts that have to be in an IEP, they say nothing about the order or any of the other sorts. So it’s, it’s confusing and, you know, the only reason I’m as good as it, as I am as I’ve been in the industry for 30 years. So I’ve been reading IEPs and looking at them. And that’s something what I always say for parents is that talk to a coach, talk to an advocate, talk to an attorney just to see what’s going on and making sure things are ok. You know. , you don’t know, we don’t know what we don’t know and we don’t want to ask.
Jamilah Bashir: (00:16:34): And then if you move, you may assume, oh, services are gonna be the same. No, like if you move, definitely look into the state that you’re moving to, to see what is available for your child because you may have been perfect. It may have been great for your kid here and you’re moving and it’s understandable, you’re moving for a bigger house or something like that, but they may not have the level of services that you had in your previous state and it’s like, or how they do their IEPs and IEP is a completely different and it’s like there is, like you said, there is no law saying, oh, you have to do it this way. It’s just, hey, you gotta make sure you have the meeting, you gotta make sure you go through these sections. You know, every IEP has the same sections but how thorough each section is. There’s no law for that.
Frances Shefter: (00:17:20): Right. Right. And I love that you say that with the moving because I definitely have had you know, potential clients call me or, or even current clients that are thinking about moving and they’re like, ok, so we’re thinking about moving. Where do you recommend? And like where I am in the, in Montgomery County, it’s the W schools is what everybody always says. Winston Churchill, Wooton, Whitman and Walter Johnson are the W schools and everybody always says those are the best feeder patterns. But yes, those might be the top rated high schools, but that doesn’t mean they’re appropriate for everybody, you know, and there are definitely times that I recommend I was like, well, you know, like this school has XYZ program. So even if your child is not eligible for that program, like for an autism program, even if your child is not eligible for the autism program, if your child has autism going to a school that has that the school in a whole knows more and is more accepting of kids with autism, it makes a difference.
Jamilah Bashir: (00:18:19): It really does. You can tell schools where I want to say the culture is very inclusive in accepting. And I feel like it definitely does start at the top versus a school where it’s not because I’m like, if that’s not the regular norm for you to be accepting of someone else’s differences, then it’s like, oh it stands out to you, it becomes a problem. You know what I mean? Because then you have students finding a problem and you may even have some teachers that don’t intervene to stop something from happening because that’s not the culture, you know, that’s not the culture school, right? And then also it’s the same, even when you go to different charter schools, you may love that school but they don’t have what your child needs. And then as a parent, you’re making a decision, do I keep my child here or do I find another school? And I’ve had some parents where they’ll keep them at the school. And I, and we’re explaining, we don’t have the level of service that they need, you know, and I’m documenting it in the email. I’m documenting it through phone calls. I’m like, I understand why you have them here, but we’re doing a disservice to them. They need more of this and that’s a hard decision for a parent to have to make.
Frances Shefter: (00:19:36): Always. Yeah, I mean, and I mean, we all say it all the time, parenting is hard. We never know you know what’s right and what’s right for one child might not be right for the next. But that’s, the other thing is to be important is looking at your child and what your child’s needs are. Sometimes public school is the right place. We’ll get the right services. Sometimes a special education school is what’s needed. Sometimes you got to find a way to pay for a private school. Because just the nature of your child’s your child’s disability, you know, the law is clear that and I keep forgetting the case name, but one of the Supreme Court cases says school districts don’t have to provide Cadillac services. Chevrolet services are ok. And it’s funny because I used to say that and I didn’t know where I got it and then I remembered it was, it was actually a case law. So it wasn’t, those aren’t my words, those are their words, but we just have to do mediocre. And if you want more for your child, sometimes stepping out of the public schools might be what you need to do.
Jamilah Bashir: (00:20:42): It is. It is. And, and I mean, and it’s unfortunate for some, for some parents, especially you have multiple children. You’re trying to keep everybody at the same school. You know, the distance you may ha hey, we may have found a perfect school for your child. But it’s like, oh wait, it’s all the way over there. Your other kids go to school over here. It’s, you know, it’s, it’s very difficult and then it’s like, ok, if you don’t wanna do that. Ok. Well, what, what are you willing to do extra to supplement your child’s support? Right. You know, that’s hard.
Frances Shefter: (00:21:14): Yeah. And what is it worth to you? You know, like how much, you know, like how much you value it? Right. Like this is your kid’s life, you know, where, where, where are we looking at it in the balance and not saying, I mean, and that’s not saying that people that don’t do certain things aren’t caring about their child or valuing education. It’s just, you know, you put things in perspective and what is more important and sometimes home life is more important and that makes sense, you know, and sometimes you know what, I will drive to 20 different schools if I have to because this child getting that support is that important. Yeah. And it’s not judging. It’s just, you know, what works for you and your family is what’s important.
Jamilah Bashir: (00:21:55): And I think, you know, parents have to remember that like do what’s gonna work for you and your family and understand like and you know how sometimes like, you know, you talk to your friends about things like, oh so and so has a child that has a disability but understand that their child needs are different from your child needs. So they may need this particular service that doesn’t mean that your child needs that particular service. So, just understanding that your kid has your needs, you do what’s best for you and your family, but your friend is doing what’s best for them and their family with their child please.
Frances Shefter: (00:22:29): Even If it’s the same diagnosis because that’s different.
Jamilah Bashir: (00:22:32): You know, no, two people with autism are exactly the same, like have the exact same need or even someone that has a learning disability have the exact same needs. That’s why you have an IEP it’s individualized, you know, that’s why. So yeah, but you, you find it sometimes it’s like, oh, my friend child has da da da and they get that. I’m like, it’s possible because they require that your child does not.
Frances Shefter: (00:22:57): Right. And we need to support it to support it with the data. Right?
Jamilah Bashir: (00:23:01): Absolutely. I’m glad you said that all the data drives everything.
Frances Shefter: (00:23:08): Thank you. I’m not going to elaborate on that, but yes, data drives everything and so, you know, take it I tell parents all the time to put things in writing. I’m trying to think of how to word it, but like obviously the school is supposed to collect data because that’s their job. What, what can the parents do to help, make sure that this is happening?
Jamilah Bashir: (00:23:32): I always tell parents to always give physical copies of their IEP and the progress reports. So in that way, you know, you can just keep track like, OK, am I getting a progress report? Like I’m supposed to be getting a progress report and then also when it comes to your progress report, I tell parents all the time you want to see the data in the progress report. So you wanna see a chart, you wanna see explanation of that chart, you know what I mean? And I said things like that you need cause you need to see OK, well, how often was my, were you assessing my child on this particular skill? So you wanna see things like that? And I said you so hey, if your teacher said, oh my God, Johnny is doing amazing. You can say, oh can you show me please? Oh, can you show me that homework? Can you show me that test? You know what I mean? So that way you know, you can see, you know, because I always saved, I saved all of my students all of their tests, all of their quizzes and all of their assessments. So that way if a parent asked me, I had it, I gave back homework and class work but I kept their quizzes and their assessment. I allowed them to see it but then I collected it back. So that way when I’m meeting with your parent, I can show them, oh, here’s one quiz. Oh, here’s the like because I taught English. So sometimes you’re like, well, how am I gonna get pro monitoring on England. You know what I mean? And so what we would do in my, in my school, we did, we call them journals, you can call them quote rights. But we always make sure we get four per quarter. So that way we have what we knew we could get, we will have four data points and with the journals, they didn’t get to edit it. It was just like, ok, we’ve been practicing these skills. So now here and it wasn’t like, oh full-blown essay. No, here it’s just a paragraph. I wanna see how you improve from the last time we’ve done it. And so when it was time to do their IEP meeting or when it was time to progress monitoring, their case manager knew come in take, you can take your folder because you’ll have all the writing probes, you need to do your progress monitoring. So then with that, with the private support, we basically was like, OK, we did it on this day, this day, this day, here are the areas in writing that you needed to uh here what this is your writing goal. You’re focusing on these three areas and we had a rubric that we all use, right? That’s how we tracked it. It’s like when schools have systems, it makes it, I wanna say manageable and easier for teachers to keep track of data. When you don’t have any systems, everybody’s doing their own thing. And then you get parents just like wait a second. Ok, I got a report but I don’t get it. What does this mean? And it’s like the private report, it should be clear to the parent, the parents should be able to look at that, see a chart and be like, ok, you did it on this date, they got this score, you did it again on this date, they got these scores and then there’s an explanation of the chart. So I always tell parents look for data, always look for data. And if and if a teacher comes to you to say, oh well, I think we need to do XYZ for Ashley. And you can ask like, what, what do you mean do this for Ashley? Where’s your data? Where’s your data for? We need to do this for my for my child. And always, I always say six weeks worth of data because that’s not, it’s not just, oh it happened one time and everyone’s in uproar like, oh my God, it’s like no, how many times has it been happening repeatedly? And like even as a teacher, if you’re seeing something like that, grab a piece of paper, write down the time and put you can do tally marks, you can write the behavior and then do tally marks or something. So you know, this is how many times this has been happening. You don’t always have to have a fancy chart. You can just actually literally take notes in a notebook and you’re writing down what’s happening. That’s data too.
Frances Shefter: (00:27:18): There needs to be something to support anything that you do.
Jamilah Bashir: (00:27:21): Exactly. That’s just like I always tell people, I’m like, you know, you go to the doctor, if a doctor tells you you’re pregnant, you’re like, where are the results? You may not even know yourself, you’re like, where are the results? You know, or even if they say oh you have this disorder or you have this going on, you wanna see the results, right? So you wanna see the data? So same thing applies with education. If someone says, oh your child is failing, they’ve been failing, they’ve been failing. Show me, show me how, where have they been failing? You know, sometimes you know, sometimes as teachers, it’s like you might see something twice. It’s like, oh my gosh, mom, dad, we have ta da da da da da and it’s like cause OK, you saw it, OK, what did, what did you do to, you know, to kind of see, you know, if it’s something that you could change to help that kid be successful. Like sometimes I had students, they may have bombed the test. I’m gonna say, you know what I want you to take this in the morning because it’s the afternoon. Now I’m gonna give you exact, you wanna come back. I’m gonna, I’m changing the order of these questions. I want you to take this again cause I don’t think, I think you were tired. You know, I’ve done it. I could have easily just took that. But I’m like, ok, it’s the afternoon you just came from lunch. You know what I mean? It’s things like, you know, it, it’s some not, not that, that’s the case all the time but something small like that or you know what I see that you’re struggling with this. Let me do a small group with you and see if this helps or let me give you a graphic organizer, see if this helps you versus going into uproar immediately. It’s like let’s take a moment, let’s try do some tier one interventions, you know, that helps you to collect your data too. So in that way, even with you doing your tier one interventions in the classroom, then we can say, you know what, listen, the teacher has all this data. They’ve done boom, they’ve done ABC and D and the student is still struggling can let’s let’s do the tier two intervention and see if that helps, you know what I mean? And then that also helps the parent I wanna say be more accepting when they see the data cause it’s like, oh I see that you have done, you didn’t just say my child has this or my child is struggling with this. You actually have been working with my child to be successful and this is what you have done,
Frances Shefter: (00:29:42): And then for the parents to keep that data, like if they ask for it and it’s not given to them, like put it in writing, you know, like that, I asked for this on this day, you said you did tier one interventions for the last six weeks. I don’t, haven’t seen any data. Please start collecting data now and report in 2 months, you know, and have it in writing. So that like, you know, holding the schools accountable and you know, like the teacher of me is like, oh my God putting more on the teachers but you know what, that’s your job, that’s what you signed up for and that’s what it is.
Jamilah Bashir: (00:30:13): And then also just reaching out to other team members to help you too. Again, because like I didn’t, again, I didn’t give tests to parents like I will make a copy. I’m like, I can’t give you the original here. I can give you a copy of this but I can’t give you the original or whatever. But yeah, and then also as a teacher, keep the data that you have collected, even if you’re, even after that student has moved on, keep it for another year cause I, something can come back. I’m telling you something can happen. They’re like, oh when they were in your class last year, I always kept, I, once my students moved on to eighth grade I still kept everything for like a whole year just in case. And I remember in one particular year a lawyer came, the dad wanted his son to go to a a special education school. He was trying to paint the picture that we failed his son in the school and all that. And I’m just like his son did great. He was just, he had, he would get test anxiety, he always bomb tests, but he will do well in class. And thank God I still had that folder, I still had his folder of all his, he took all his assessments that he took all the writing that he did. I still had it. So I was able to share it with our district lawyer so that they could share. And we all were on the same page as he was like his son did, you know, he, he worked as hard as he could, you know, but you know, you definitely, you know.
Frances Shefter: (00:31:37): You need data to support it.
Jamilah Bashir: (00:31:38): You can’t just say data drives everything and also as a teacher, it protects you because you’re doing what you need to do. And then even as a parent, like if you’re seeing something in your child, take out of like ee even if you open up a note on your phone type, like you can write yourself a note. So then that way if you ever need to go to your child’s primary care physician, you have your data, it may notebook, it may be notes, it may be audio messages you left. Right. That’s data for you to
Frances Shefter: (00:32:07): do. Right. One of the things I do often is, you know, like I look at if my daughters had a really rough morning, you know, I’ll, I’ll usually email the teachers and be, like, just FYI, she’s had a rough morning, you know, to prep them for it to be like, you know, be a little more gentle because we know she’s probably coming in just regulated. But it’s even like looking at that and seeing when you get a note from your teacher from the teacher saying that, hey, your child did XYZ today,which is not usual behavior, taking a step back and looking at what else has been happening in this child’s life as the parent that could be causing that. And then let’s talk to the teacher about how to address it differently.
Jamilah Bashir: (00:32:48): Right. Right. So, just having that communication is extremely helpful too because like you said, the parent can say, oh, well, it was a rough night last night. You know, it could have been something happening in the family. It could be a family loss or loss of a pet or somebody’s sick. It, it could just be so many things going on and it causes the child to, you know, not be themselves going to school. So, like, yes, when you get that information as a teacher, it is extremely helpful. You know what I mean? You can do your check ins and then also even on the school side, being able to notify a parent. Like, listen, I got the results of what was it was student government. I’m like, we got it. So, and hey, he, he did not get the the role that he wanted somebody else won. And I had a, he had a whole breakdown. So after that, anytime he tried out for something, I always the teacher that was in charge, I’m like, please let me know the results before you share it with him because I need to tell his parents. So that way they can kinda prep him before he comes to school. So please notify me. So they like by a parent and they were very appreciative of that because I don’t think people understand you have to, you have to either be working with children who may, who have needs or you have a child yourself or someone in your family to understand that feeling when they are, when in the eyes of the child, they’re in crisis, in their eyes, they are in crisis and the amount of time it takes for them to decompress and come down, it can take anywhere from 15 minutes and it could take over an hour sometimes. So if we can do whatever we can do to minimize that from happening a meltdown. Absolutely. Let’s do what we need to do. Absolutely. Even though in the moment you’re also teaching them strategies on how to, yes, I don’t like the outcome. I don’t like it. Ok. What do I have control of? What can I do about it? You know what I mean? Because you are, yes, you want to allow them to have that moment to be compressed. But also at the same time, understanding like this is, you know, in, in life, these things happen, we don’t get what we want all the time and it’s like the quicker we can accept that we can move on and then it’s like, ok, what can I do different the next time? So that way that does not happen, you know, it’s so much going on in that moment. So it’s like when people, you know how people make comments about parents and their kids or even sometimes teachers, I’m just like you have no idea what they deal with a parent or even a teacher, the parent may be allowing that because you know what if I take this, it’s going to turn into something else. I don’t have the energy right now. You know what I mean? And it’s like you gotta give people grace.
Frances Shefter: (00:35:53): Yeah, I know like it always made me, makes me crazy because the schools still do it is that when the kids are misbehaving, they take away recess seriously. Usually kids are misbehaving because they have extra energy or anxiety. How do you think they’re gonna get rid of that recess? You know, like, and that’s the thing is like looking at what when a child becomes dysregulated, if you haven’t been able to prevent it? Why is the child dysregulated? And what can we do to bring the child out of? Like, and every child is different? Like, for example, my daughter needs to be, you do not talk to my daughter when she gets to that point and she goes to her small space, don’t talk to her, don’t interact. Just let her be when she’s processed and done her thing, she’ll come back and, and then we can talk it through. But like as you were saying, it’s better being proactive of like let’s prep somebody and teach them when this news happens. This is how we can deal with that upset emotion.
Jamilah Bashir: (00:36:52): And then there are gonna be times where hey, it happens and we have to deal with it, you know, I even had some parents who then you may refer to them as helicopter parents, you know, trying to remove every obstacle. And I’m like, no, we don’t want to do that and I understand you’re being as proactive as possible, but I’m like, then you will always do that the rest of their lives and then you may get mad at a certain point like you’re old enough, you should do it. But it’s like you never gave them the opportunity to do it to mess up and you support them and you know, what can we do better? And I never get the nurse in my old school. She said, do you wanna continue to carry your kid and walk through the mud for them or walk through the mud with them and then teach them how to clean themselves off. And I just, I just like that is, I was like, that is perfect, perfect because you know, you do want to get the support for your child, but also you wanna make sure you are not stunting their growth at the same time. And I did, I did learning support and I did emotional support. So when I did emotional support, yes, that’s like a whole another level, a whole other level of patience and tolerance that I had to have. Like I had that I had that student who would, every time something was uncomfortable for her just leave the classroom. I’m like, sweetheart, you can’t leave the classroom because listen, let’s pretend I’m your teacher right now. You just left and I don’t know where you are. What do you think? I’m thinking she’s like, oh, you might think something happened to me. I’m like, exactly where are you going? And she, her, her place was the bathroom and I’m like, don’t go to the bathroom and sit on the floor. I was like, that’s disgusting. Like the bathroom is nasty. I said, people go, I said, people go there to relieve themselves. You wanna sit in there? She was like, oh no, I’m like, no, I’m like, so we, it was like a lot of different things we were trying with her. We did colored cards, we did a red card, we did a yellow card and I said, what do you want yellow to mean? What do you want the red card to mean? So if your teachers see that, what does that mean? And that was something that we implemented for a while, it was working for her? And then there were some days where she had, she was having a meltdown and my aide knew, ok, if she couldn’t, you know, bring her down, then she always knew where I was and I would take her to my classroom wasn’t no one in there. She would scream. I thought, I thought she was gonna flip a couple of desks, you know, and I never get someone walking past me. Like, are you ok? I’m like, I’m fine, you know, I’m fine, but she needed to let that out. And then after she has let that out, if she was disrespectful in any way, that’s when I talk to her, I don’t talk to her while she is in, I’ll say her crisis in that meltdown. No, because just think about it, you’re, she’s not he or she’s not thinking rationally. That’s just like when you’re upset. You’re not as adults when we get, we’re not thinking rationally, you know. So, it’s like, don’t try to talk to somebody when you’re in that moment because there, you’re, you’re not even in a position to receive any information to process the information. Yeah,
Frances Shefter: (00:40:03): Exactly.
Jamilah Bashir: (00:40:05): And kids are the same way. So, it’s like afterwards when we talk, she said I apologize. I shouldn’t have said that da da da. And I was like, ok, so, you know, you need to go and apologize. Who else do you need to go and apologize to now that she can receive what I’m trying to say to her. She’s like, oh, I need to apologize to this person and that person because I shouldn’t have said that. And then also like even pushing back to her, I’m like, you have to open your mouth and say what it is you need or want, you can’t read your mind, right? So she would come in and never forget this one. So she didn’t do her homework. And so she had, didn’t do my homework and I just looked at her, I’m like, ok, you’re not even trying to help me. I’m like, I don’t recall you asking me anything, right? And she’s just like, I’m like, do you need help with your homework? Do you need a place to do your harm? Like you need to ask me a question, you didn’t ask me a question yet. And I had, and I had to tell her your crisis is not a crisis for me, your lack of planning, that’s not a crisis being, you know, and, and I, and I, that’s how I did talk to a lot of my students because I had some graders, they were older and I’m like, I talked to them that way because I’m like, I need you to understand that it’s a decision you made that puts you in this situation, right? And we gotta make some better decisions.
Frances Shefter: (00:41:20): And that, and that’s the thing like when a kid just regulated to teach them, ok, so this is how you reacted in this. What do you think we could have done differently?
Jamilah Bashir: (00:41:28): Exactly.
Frances Shefter: (00:41:29): That’s the, the, you know, cutting through.
Jamilah Bashir: (00:41:32): It’s the process like they had to go through the process to understand. Oh, this is what I, ok, I understand that because I, and every kid is different, every kid is different.
Frances Shefter: (00:41:42): And if we like, and if we have a kid that gets dysregulated and we punish them and put them in time out or whatever it is and then never process with them, that child’s never going to learn how to process emotions.
Jamilah Bashir: (00:41:56): Right. Right. And you have to like, and sometimes sometimes with some teachers and some parents, it’s like, well, you wanna just immediately remove something or give them with him like, no, we gotta learn. It’s like we gotta go through this. It’s like going through that transition. So that way they can get to the point where they understand this is the process so they can start to implement it themselves. That’s like, it’s like, if you have AAA student or a child who has sensory issues, it’s like, OK, you’re gonna have to go to the barbershop, you have to go to the barbershop because you have to get your hair cut. So you know what, we’re gonna have to put, we’re gonna have, we’re gonna be uncomfortable for a little bit while you get used to going to the barbershop. You know what I mean? We can’t remove it. It’s something you’re gonna do until they get used to it to be like, ok, this isn’t going to hurt me. I know when I go there, I’m gonna sit here for this many minutes. I’m gonna get my hair cut. I’m gonna look amazing afterwards. You know what I mean? It’s like you gotta put in that energy in those transition times because even think of anyone as an adult, like when something is new for us it’s, we’re uncomfortable. Yeah. But as we do it over and over it’s like, ok, it becomes a routine.
Frances Shefter: (00:43:12): Yeah, exactly. And that, and that’s what it’s all about. It’s teaching our Children how to do things and how to advocate themselves. And then also with you, with the IEP coaching stuff is that teaching the parents and the teachers of how to communicate and how to because as parents, we’re definitely not taught it either. And as we talked about at the beginning, teachers aren’t necessarily taught how to collect data or do you know IEPs or anything either?
Jamilah Bashir: (00:43:36): And it’s so helpful. Yes, it’s so helpful. Like, like you said, parents don’t always know what they don’t know or don’t know what questions to ask. So, like, OK, when we do parent workshops, a lot of our parent workshops will focus on IEPs IP meetings or 504 plans. And they’re like, oh OK, I didn’t know. And then like, oh the IEP OK, that’s what that is. Oh, those are the sections. And I actually, because I got so many questions during IEP meetings, that’s how we created our master IEP course because we got so many questions like it was like, oh what’s about IEP and what’s an IP again? And what’s that process? And you know, we had new teachers asking us that’s how we create, that’s why we created that course. And then now with our educators rise program, it’s the coaching program. It’s the coaching I never received. And I’m just like in the end there, we’re going, we’re uh we’re going over the laws, we’re going over case management, we’re going over progress monitoring and then also analyzing that data, we’re going over transition plans because no one ever, it wasn’t until I changed districts where they actually they had, they sent us to a training. I’m like, oh, my gosh. I had listen up this whole time, you know what I mean? How do I communicate with parents? How do I foster those relationships? How do I not get burned out? What are some things I can do? So that I don’t get burned out, you know what I mean? It’s just having, and then actually having access to somebody who you can ask your questions to, who can show you. Oh, this is the way to do it.
Frances Shefter: (00:45:10): Right. Right. Exactly. And I, I want to talk about your course a little bit more. So you have a course where can people access it? Who’s it designed for? Tell me a little bit of that.
Jamilah Bashir: (00:45:20): So that is our first baby. The Master IEP course. That is our first baby. It teaches you how to read and understand an IEP. And again, that course came about from a lot of questions we got from parents and new teachers and even sometimes related service providers because they’re so used to their section that they put in. They’re not really, I’m not gonna say they’re not worried about the other parts of the IEP, but they don’t have to. So it’s like some, like when we did the course, the first time it was a reading specialist because we did it live, she was just like, oh, I had no idea, you know, this was in this section. So it’s basically for parents new teachers and I’ll say any new related service providers , teaches you how to read and understand an IEP. And then also we go over so we go over every single last section. We go over the no rep, you know, and we do it with a fine tooth comb because I’m just like you have to pay attention to the NOREP why the NOREP is important. And then also we go…
Frances Shefter: (00:46:19) What are you, what are you referring to with the…
Jameela Bashir: (00:46:22): The notice of recommended education placement?
Frances Shefter: (00:46:25): Thank you. It’s different in every place we call LRE.
Jamilah Bashir: (00:46:30): the LRE OK. So least restrictive environment. OK. So, and in Pennsylvania we do the last part of the IEP is the NOREP that notice a recommended education placement. So that’s the part where your document. OK. They need this service, they need this placement, this service. This is why they need it. That’s the page that the parent actually signs off on.
Frances Shefter: (00:46:52): That’s the, that we use the prior written notice PWN in Maryland, it’s like it’s like before, like after the IEP meeting, this is what we discussed. This is why we did or didn’t do everything.
Jamilah Bashir: (00:47:04): And we go over the invitation to the IEP meeting and then we also go over what is it just the process beforehand? Like, oh, this is the time frame in between from when you put in evaluation. It’s just basically going over the timeline briefly, but it actually is a diy course, you can go at your own pace. , you can pause it, stop it go. You can, hey, if you, it’s, it’s three parts. If you wanna do three parts in one day, you can knock yourself out and do it. Also with the course you get access to our master IEP ebooks. So we have two ebooks, so that way when you’re done the course, they’re like a good reference for you to refer back to and they go through, it’s just like, again, references for you. Like let’s ok, let’s say the course is over for you, but you still have the ebooks at the reference for you. So you can go to www.mastertheiep.com. I try to be consistent with everything.
Frances Shefter: (00:48:04): Yeah. No, that’s great. And I know we, I know they’ll put the links in the show notes so people can get it. I just realized the time and I’m like, you know, this is one of the episodes that I could, I think we could talk all day. You know, there’s so much to unpack. But I so appreciate you coming on to the show and sharing. Do you, I know you said you were in Pennsylvania. Do you only serve families and schools in Pennsylvania or do you do other areas?
Jamilah Bashir: (00:48:30): We travel so like we’ll do, we’ll do some things virtually we also will, again, we’ll travel to the state to some places want a workshop if they want it virtually do it virtually. If they want it in person, we can do it in person too. So we travel throughout the the country for our work for professional development because we’re not just working with schools in Pennsylvania, but we work with schools across the country.
Frances Shefter: (00:48:54): That’s good to know. So, thank you so much. I am so glad we finally got you on the show and got to get more.
Jamilah Bashir: (00:49:01): Thank you.
VOICEOVER: (00:49:05): You’ve been listening to Stress-Free IEP® with your host, Frances Shefter. Remember you do not need to do it all alone. You can reach Frances through www.Shefterlaw.com where prior episodes are also posted. Thank you for your positive reviews, comments and sharing the show with others through youtube linkedin Apple podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher and more.
Navigating IEPs and Special Education with Jamilah Bashir
Stress-Free IEP® with Frances Shefter, Episode 44
In this episode of Stress-Free IEP®, Frances Shefter speaks with Jamilah Bashir, Founder of the IEP Coach LLC. Jamilah F. Bashir is the founder of The IEP Coach LLC, an Education Consultant, and IEP Coach for special education teachers, helping them to balance being a teacher and case manager so they can level up at work and at home. She also helps parents navigate the often complex IEP process with more peace and ease.
Jamilah is a sought-after guest and speaker, sharing her wisdom on stages such as Educators Moving On (EMON) LIVE Conference and the 12th Annual Progressive Education Summit. She has been featured on podcasts such as The Impact of Educational Leadership with Isiah Drone and The Dope Muslim Woman Podcast. Jamilah is also the proud recipient of the Advocate for Me, LLC and Jordan A. Smith Foundation Award.
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Learn more about Jamilah Bashir:
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Stress-Free IEP®:
Frances Shefter is an Education Attorney and Advocate who is committed to helping her clients have a Stress-Free IEP® experience. In each podcast, Frances interviews inspiring people to share information, educate you, empower you and help you get the knowledge you need.
Watch more episodes of Stress-Free IEP®:
Connect and learn more from your host, Frances Shefter:
FULL TRANSCRIPT:
VOICEOVER: (00:00:04): Welcome to Stress-Free IEP®. You do not need to do it all alone with your host, Frances Shefter, Principal of Shafter Law. You can get more details and catch prior episodes at www.shefterlaw.com. The Stress-Free IEP® video podcast is also posted on YouTube and LinkedIn and you can listen to episodes through Apple podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher and more. Now, here’s the host of Stress Free IEP® Frances Shefter. Now here’s the host.
Frances Shefter: (00:00:42): Hello, everyone and welcome to the show. Today’s special guest. I am so excited to have is Jamilah Bashir who is the IEP coach. And I have to tell you, I am so excited to have her because I love watching her social media. So first of all, if you’re not following her, you need to go follow her. She’s got awesome posts. So, Jamilah , please, you know, pop on, let us know. Tell us a little. What about yourself?
Jamilah Bashir: (00:01:07): Sure. Thank you so much. So, yes, follow me at the IEP coach LLC Instagram, Tiktok, Facebook, all that. But thank you so much for having me. First of all, I’m just so excited to be here. We finally were able to, you know, connect and just your whole story. I’m just so that’s so amazing, like I said, but yes, I’m Jamilah aka, the IEP coach and I’m the founder and lead consultant of the IEP coach LLC. We are educated consulting company and we specialize in providing special education centered support to teachers, paraprofessionals, instructional assistants and parents. So we do that through professional development, we do it through coaching, we do it through parent workshops. So our focus is clearly special education. That is a huge passion of mine. And I fell in love with special education due to my little sister having an intellectual disability. So that’s where the passion grew from. And then helping my mom educating my mom while I was in school sharing information with her. That’s where my love for advocating for parents came from and then being a SpEd teacher myself, then being a SpEd supervisor, that’s where my love for supporting teachers came from. So we find it best supporting teachers as well as parents because in the end, ultimately, it benefits the students.
Frances Shefter: (00:02:24): And because we’re all a team and I love it because it’s so similar to my story of being a former teacher in Special Ed and then the leader. And it’s, you know, there’s another special ed attorney and I joke around a lot about that we need to do a course for teachers of how not to get sued you know, which, I mean, probably you put it a little bit better just training on the IEPs because, you know, I don’t know your experience but I know from, even when I was a teacher we’re never really taught how to write. IEPs.
Jamilah Bashir: (00:02:54): No, you’re not. It’s like, ok, you, you got a degree in special education? You, oh, you got your, your license? Ok. Here. And it’s like you’re thrown in there and it’s like, and it’s like when you’re in college you don’t really learn the basics of writing an IEP and leading an IEP meeting. Therefore, when you get out into the field, you make mistakes, especially if you don’t have a coach and you don’t have someone showing you giving you that immediate feedback, showing you how to do it. This is what you should have to say. This is how you need to write that. This is how you need to address the parent. If you don’t have that, you will make those mistakes and unfortunately some of those mistakes can land your district into a lawsuit.
Frances Shefter: (00:03:40): Right. Yeah. And it’s, and I feel bad because, you know, these new, new teachers are thrown out there and having to deal with it and having to do stuff and allegedly there’s, you know, higher ups that are supposed to be supporting them, the instructional specialists or whatever they call them in the specific areas, but they’re not always supporting because they have too many to support.
Jamilah Bashir: (00:04:01): Because some caseload, depending where you are, if you don’t have enough, uh, special education teachers, it’s like, ok, well, you already divvied the kids out amongst the teachers you have and you already gave them too much. So now if you are the special education liaison or if you’re the supervisor in your school, you have to take the rest because you can’t put the rest on those teachers And it’s like you barely have time to do it because you’re supposed to be coaching honestly and supporting, not just the sped teachers but general teachers too, with differentiating instruction, et cetera. But you can’t because you’re, you’re bombarded with all this paperwork and that’s something that, that gets me is where you have schools. Yes, they have their SPED director or they have their SPED supervisors but they can’t really get in the classrooms to coach the teachers. It’s like, ok, we did PE in the beginning of the year, ok, everyone has their caseload. If you got a question, email me, they’re trying to keep their head above water, right? And he can’t really support you.
Frances Shefter: (00:05:05): Right. And to say if you have a question, email me well, with new teachers, I didn’t know what, I didn’t know, you know, like we’re just doing what we gotta do. Or as my business coach says, we’re building the plane as we’re flying in the air because you kinda like.
Jamilah Bashir: (00:05:23): That’s exactly what it’s like. It’s like, and I hate saying this, like, you get thrown to the wolves, but that’s, that, that’s what it feels like. You’re either if you wanna use, thrown to the wolves or you’re thrown into the ocean and you have to, and you either gonna sink or you’re gonna do as much as you can to keep your head up of water to breathe until you get to shore. And it’s like when you get to your, the breaks throughout the year, it’s like, oh my God, I can breathe now. But even sometimes with that you’re like, you may take work with me home because you’re like, oh, I’m not at work. I can really get caught up on my IEPs or on progress monitoring, et cetera. And then it’s like you didn’t really have a break because you were working.
Frances Shefter: (00:06:11): And I remember, when I taught that summer was like, June was a, you know, the end of June, beginning of July was all of our time was spent on going to the doctors because we’ve neglected all of our doctors and our health all year. And then it’s like, ok, you know, I’m good. I’ve gotten all the doctors. I can relax. I can enjoy my summer and then it’s like, oh my God, it’s August already.
Jamilah Bashir: (00:06:33): You know, it’s like, and it’s like time to go back. It’s like, yes.
Frances Shefter: (00:06:40): Yeah. So it’s definitely, , but I love also, like you say that it’s collaboration. Like I always say, at my IEP meetings, I tell the teachers, I tell the team. I’m like, look, yes, I am an attorney. Yes, I have the law degree, but I’m also a mom and I was a teacher and I was a special ed teacher and I get it. We’re here to focus on the child and to work as a team on the child. And I know that’s a big thing that you say is why the teachers and the parents how to collaborate. How do you like help with that to make, you know, get our village stronger?
Jamilah Bashir: (00:07:15): Well, for one with the parents, I do explain the whole process because a lot of the a lot of parents don’t understand the process and don’t understand, oh this is how long it’s going, the evaluation process will take, this is how long it’s gonna take to write an IEP, you know, just so they understand like, OK, this is the, the the timeline of things and then also understand like, you know how you’re at work, the teacher is at work too. So they may not be able to get on the phone call with you to have a conversation, you can get a quicker response if you email them and then also just take into account, be mindful. If you do get on the phone with them, they may have 10 minutes, they may have 15 minutes. You know what I mean? And then from the teachers side, just being mindful of when the parent is working and when they’re not working, do they prefer a phone call? Do they prefer you to text them? Just that information and just even keeping open communication? Like, oh, here’s something that may be beneficial to your child or? Oh, just a reminder I’m going to be doing boom, boom, boom, boom with, you know what I mean? Just keeping that communication open. Like, even if they don’t email you back or call you back the fact that they know you’re constantly reaching out to them. They, notice it, you know what I mean? And they see it so they may feel more comfortable to open up to you. But it’s very, very important to build connections with your parents and parents, building a connection with the teacher as well. Just so that you are both or just on a united front and keeping the, the student it’s needs at the front. Like focus on your needs. You’ll be good. I said that all the time focus on what the kid needs. We’ll all be good.
Frances Shefter: (00:08:55): Exactly. That’s so true. You know, like I had a client and now I tell other clients to do it. That brings a picture of the kid for all the meetings. I was like, this is who we’re talking about. It’s not this paper we’re talking about this child. And what this child needs. And I know like the communication is a big thing. I think a lot of times when I look at cases, like when they get to the point of me filing due process, I look at it and I’m like, you know what, there was a breakdown in the communication at this point and that’s what happened and then the disagreement started and then it kept building and now we’re litigating it where I was like, if that open communication and honesty was there in the beginning, it might not have gotten to this point.
Jamilah Bashir: (00:9:39): Right. Absolutely. And then, like, also like, with some parents sometimes, like, I would get so many different phone numbers and I’m just like, OK, which, which one can I reach you? And then sometimes the parents don’t wanna be reaching, I’m like, I it’s very, very important and it’s like it was to the point like sometimes I’m talking to the student, I’m like, it is very important that you tell your parents, you know, whoever is taking care of you, grandma for any, whoever’s taking care of it. It is very important that they contact me because I need to have a conversation. It is, you know what I mean? That was, I wanna say when it got to that point. Some I’m like, OK, going to my principal, I think we need to have someone go to the house because it’s very important because I don’t want this kid to go out of compliance. I don’t want that to happen. It’s very important that I, you know, get in contact with this parent, you know, whatever. And then it, there were some parents who would say, you know, what you can call me at work and I’m like, ok, you know, thank you. And I’m like, don’t worry, I’m just gonna call you just, you know, just about that. But it’s like when that communication is not there, then it’s like, ok, the parents gonna make assumptions of what’s going on, you’re making assumptions about what the parent like, oh my God, that parent didn’t call me back, but you may not realize the parent may work nights. So they’re sleeping, you know, in the morning or like halfway through the day because they work at night, you know. So it’s like, like you said, having that clear communication. So that way it kills any assumptions and just like you said, just being very honest about your situation. So that way the school can plan accordingly because then like, say if you’re in some type of, you know, need as a parent, there are resources, the school that can, can connect you with or there or it’s something that school can do for you, but we won’t know unless, you know, you’re honest about the situation,
Frances Shefter: (00:11:22): Right. And it’s, you know, I don’t think a parent ever is like, oh, my God, that teacher is the worst teacher ever. Well, there are sometimes, but it’s not like that. Right. Right. But, I mean, but even then you don’t go into teaching for the money, we all know that and if you go into the teaching for the love of the children and to teach the children and so maybe they’re not a great teacher, but their heart is in the right place and it’s kind of, you know, every time I say I do not bash teachers ever, their jobs are hard enough. Do they make mistakes 100%? Do I have to point out those mistakes if we’re litigating? Yes, I do because that’s my job and their job is to do their job, which I understand is difficult at times and they need to be asking for help and that’s always a challenge. But, you know, there’s a lot of times I’ll tell clients at the beginning of the year. , and I do this with my own kids, like at the open house, if you can or just set up a quick meeting with the teacher at the beginning of every school year. Just have a quick little, hey, here, you know, here are some things that might be helpful. For me, right, like for example, so my older daughter needs a little calm down place and she needs a little tight space that nobody can see her and that’s what she, and if she doesn’t have that. She’s gonna, like, go to the bathroom and find a place or go sit in her locker. So, at the beginning of the school year I talked to the teacher, I’m like, hey, you know, just letting you know and she goes, I mean, this teacher was phenomenal because she said, oh, yeah. Yeah, we already have it figured out. It’s over there and she knows when to do it and she knows how to do it and it’s all good. But she’s a seasoned teacher with a newer teacher might not have known that. So it’s kind of like, let’s have that conversation with the teacher being like, look, I want to support you. Let’s talk together of what we can do to make this a good experience for everyone. Yeah.
Jamilah Bashir: (00:13:12): I always tell parents, like, in the beginning of the year, like, have a meeting with the whole team, like, have a meeting with all your kids teachers, you know, let them know, like, listen, I’m not trying to take up all your time. This will last no more than 15 minutes. But you may just want to share some information or, you know, any, you know, anything like that and it’s easy to have. Oh, I got all your teachers here. Perfect. I’m so, and so’s mom, dad, whatever, you know, just share that information about your child. And then also it’s a, it’s a nice way for you to put names with faces even though you might, you might forget. But, like, you could put names with faces, you know what I mean? And they can, you know, get to meet you and understand like, ok, this mom did, this parent is involved or whatever and also you just, you’re able to answer questions that you may have just about a particular subject or anything like that. I’ve had several parents do that.
Frances Shefter: (00:13:59): Right. Yeah. No. And it just, it opens that communication. I know, you know, as a teacher remembering when the parents would come in and I was always appreciative because like, yeah, we get an IEP we get a piece of paper to read about our kids that doesn’t tell us anything about the child when a parent comes in and gives me that little bit of information. And always what I like to share is that we’re not trying to take up your time, we’re not trying, you know, we just want to save time later. Like, let’s be proactive now to put these, this stuff in place so that we have that open line of communication. So we don’t have difficulties later.
Jamilah Bashir: (00:14:30): Right? And then when I would when I was still in the classroom, I will always review all my IEPs. Like I had a, I had a clipboard, I was writing the kid’s name down like, OK, well, who has related services? How often I’m like, I’m writing all things down in any particular SDIs that may be out of the norm that I’ve never really seen. , I make sure I write those down and once the school year starts it, like, ok, I know who gets to check in, check out et cetera. And if I see anything new with the student and I don’t see it listed in the IEPi contact the previous case, I have no problem doing it because I am, like, wait a second, I don’t see any of this in the IEP what’s going on here? You know what I mean? Because I’m like, I doubt this just started this year. I’m sure this was occurring previously, you know what happened, you know. So yeah, like, and, and that’s just extra time that you have to do and again, if you don’t have a coach or somebody helping you with that and guiding you through that, you’re like, oh my, you get overwhelmed just by looking at an IEP because it’s so thick and it’s like, no, no, no, look through this section. Go to this section, ok? You know, skim through, this is gonna tell you about the kid. Now flip to this section. This is gonna tell you what to do for this kid and then this section, ok? Here are the goal like, you know what I mean? It’s like you gotta, again, if you don’t have no one showing you that how to do that, it can be extremely overwhelming.
Frances Shefter: (00:15:56): Yeah. And then depending on how, on your school system because all the school systems do it differently on, on what the IEP looks like. You know, federal law says this, these are the eight parts that have to be in an IEP, they say nothing about the order or any of the other sorts. So it’s, it’s confusing and, you know, the only reason I’m as good as it, as I am as I’ve been in the industry for 30 years. So I’ve been reading IEPs and looking at them. And that’s something what I always say for parents is that talk to a coach, talk to an advocate, talk to an attorney just to see what’s going on and making sure things are ok. You know. , you don’t know, we don’t know what we don’t know and we don’t want to ask.
Jamilah Bashir: (00:16:34): And then if you move, you may assume, oh, services are gonna be the same. No, like if you move, definitely look into the state that you’re moving to, to see what is available for your child because you may have been perfect. It may have been great for your kid here and you’re moving and it’s understandable, you’re moving for a bigger house or something like that, but they may not have the level of services that you had in your previous state and it’s like, or how they do their IEPs and IEP is a completely different and it’s like there is, like you said, there is no law saying, oh, you have to do it this way. It’s just, hey, you gotta make sure you have the meeting, you gotta make sure you go through these sections. You know, every IEP has the same sections but how thorough each section is. There’s no law for that.
Frances Shefter: (00:17:20): Right. Right. And I love that you say that with the moving because I definitely have had you know, potential clients call me or, or even current clients that are thinking about moving and they’re like, ok, so we’re thinking about moving. Where do you recommend? And like where I am in the, in Montgomery County, it’s the W schools is what everybody always says. Winston Churchill, Wooton, Whitman and Walter Johnson are the W schools and everybody always says those are the best feeder patterns. But yes, those might be the top rated high schools, but that doesn’t mean they’re appropriate for everybody, you know, and there are definitely times that I recommend I was like, well, you know, like this school has XYZ program. So even if your child is not eligible for that program, like for an autism program, even if your child is not eligible for the autism program, if your child has autism going to a school that has that the school in a whole knows more and is more accepting of kids with autism, it makes a difference.
Jamilah Bashir: (00:18:19): It really does. You can tell schools where I want to say the culture is very inclusive in accepting. And I feel like it definitely does start at the top versus a school where it’s not because I’m like, if that’s not the regular norm for you to be accepting of someone else’s differences, then it’s like, oh it stands out to you, it becomes a problem. You know what I mean? Because then you have students finding a problem and you may even have some teachers that don’t intervene to stop something from happening because that’s not the culture, you know, that’s not the culture school, right? And then also it’s the same, even when you go to different charter schools, you may love that school but they don’t have what your child needs. And then as a parent, you’re making a decision, do I keep my child here or do I find another school? And I’ve had some parents where they’ll keep them at the school. And I, and we’re explaining, we don’t have the level of service that they need, you know, and I’m documenting it in the email. I’m documenting it through phone calls. I’m like, I understand why you have them here, but we’re doing a disservice to them. They need more of this and that’s a hard decision for a parent to have to make.
Frances Shefter: (00:19:36): Always. Yeah, I mean, and I mean, we all say it all the time, parenting is hard. We never know you know what’s right and what’s right for one child might not be right for the next. But that’s, the other thing is to be important is looking at your child and what your child’s needs are. Sometimes public school is the right place. We’ll get the right services. Sometimes a special education school is what’s needed. Sometimes you got to find a way to pay for a private school. Because just the nature of your child’s your child’s disability, you know, the law is clear that and I keep forgetting the case name, but one of the Supreme Court cases says school districts don’t have to provide Cadillac services. Chevrolet services are ok. And it’s funny because I used to say that and I didn’t know where I got it and then I remembered it was, it was actually a case law. So it wasn’t, those aren’t my words, those are their words, but we just have to do mediocre. And if you want more for your child, sometimes stepping out of the public schools might be what you need to do.
Jamilah Bashir: (00:20:42): It is. It is. And, and I mean, and it’s unfortunate for some, for some parents, especially you have multiple children. You’re trying to keep everybody at the same school. You know, the distance you may ha hey, we may have found a perfect school for your child. But it’s like, oh wait, it’s all the way over there. Your other kids go to school over here. It’s, you know, it’s, it’s very difficult and then it’s like, ok, if you don’t wanna do that. Ok. Well, what, what are you willing to do extra to supplement your child’s support? Right. You know, that’s hard.
Frances Shefter: (00:21:14): Yeah. And what is it worth to you? You know, like how much, you know, like how much you value it? Right. Like this is your kid’s life, you know, where, where, where are we looking at it in the balance and not saying, I mean, and that’s not saying that people that don’t do certain things aren’t caring about their child or valuing education. It’s just, you know, you put things in perspective and what is more important and sometimes home life is more important and that makes sense, you know, and sometimes you know what, I will drive to 20 different schools if I have to because this child getting that support is that important. Yeah. And it’s not judging. It’s just, you know, what works for you and your family is what’s important.
Jamilah Bashir: (00:21:55): And I think, you know, parents have to remember that like do what’s gonna work for you and your family and understand like and you know how sometimes like, you know, you talk to your friends about things like, oh so and so has a child that has a disability but understand that their child needs are different from your child needs. So they may need this particular service that doesn’t mean that your child needs that particular service. So, just understanding that your kid has your needs, you do what’s best for you and your family, but your friend is doing what’s best for them and their family with their child please.
Frances Shefter: (00:22:29): Even If it’s the same diagnosis because that’s different.
Jamilah Bashir: (00:22:32): You know, no, two people with autism are exactly the same, like have the exact same need or even someone that has a learning disability have the exact same needs. That’s why you have an IEP it’s individualized, you know, that’s why. So yeah, but you, you find it sometimes it’s like, oh, my friend child has da da da and they get that. I’m like, it’s possible because they require that your child does not.
Frances Shefter: (00:22:57): Right. And we need to support it to support it with the data. Right?
Jamilah Bashir: (00:23:01): Absolutely. I’m glad you said that all the data drives everything.
Frances Shefter: (00:23:08): Thank you. I’m not going to elaborate on that, but yes, data drives everything and so, you know, take it I tell parents all the time to put things in writing. I’m trying to think of how to word it, but like obviously the school is supposed to collect data because that’s their job. What, what can the parents do to help, make sure that this is happening?
Jamilah Bashir: (00:23:32): I always tell parents to always give physical copies of their IEP and the progress reports. So in that way, you know, you can just keep track like, OK, am I getting a progress report? Like I’m supposed to be getting a progress report and then also when it comes to your progress report, I tell parents all the time you want to see the data in the progress report. So you wanna see a chart, you wanna see explanation of that chart, you know what I mean? And I said things like that you need cause you need to see OK, well, how often was my, were you assessing my child on this particular skill? So you wanna see things like that? And I said you so hey, if your teacher said, oh my God, Johnny is doing amazing. You can say, oh can you show me please? Oh, can you show me that homework? Can you show me that test? You know what I mean? So that way you know, you can see, you know, because I always saved, I saved all of my students all of their tests, all of their quizzes and all of their assessments. So that way if a parent asked me, I had it, I gave back homework and class work but I kept their quizzes and their assessment. I allowed them to see it but then I collected it back. So that way when I’m meeting with your parent, I can show them, oh, here’s one quiz. Oh, here’s the like because I taught English. So sometimes you’re like, well, how am I gonna get pro monitoring on England. You know what I mean? And so what we would do in my, in my school, we did, we call them journals, you can call them quote rights. But we always make sure we get four per quarter. So that way we have what we knew we could get, we will have four data points and with the journals, they didn’t get to edit it. It was just like, ok, we’ve been practicing these skills. So now here and it wasn’t like, oh full-blown essay. No, here it’s just a paragraph. I wanna see how you improve from the last time we’ve done it. And so when it was time to do their IEP meeting or when it was time to progress monitoring, their case manager knew come in take, you can take your folder because you’ll have all the writing probes, you need to do your progress monitoring. So then with that, with the private support, we basically was like, OK, we did it on this day, this day, this day, here are the areas in writing that you needed to uh here what this is your writing goal. You’re focusing on these three areas and we had a rubric that we all use, right? That’s how we tracked it. It’s like when schools have systems, it makes it, I wanna say manageable and easier for teachers to keep track of data. When you don’t have any systems, everybody’s doing their own thing. And then you get parents just like wait a second. Ok, I got a report but I don’t get it. What does this mean? And it’s like the private report, it should be clear to the parent, the parents should be able to look at that, see a chart and be like, ok, you did it on this date, they got this score, you did it again on this date, they got these scores and then there’s an explanation of the chart. So I always tell parents look for data, always look for data. And if and if a teacher comes to you to say, oh well, I think we need to do XYZ for Ashley. And you can ask like, what, what do you mean do this for Ashley? Where’s your data? Where’s your data for? We need to do this for my for my child. And always, I always say six weeks worth of data because that’s not, it’s not just, oh it happened one time and everyone’s in uproar like, oh my God, it’s like no, how many times has it been happening repeatedly? And like even as a teacher, if you’re seeing something like that, grab a piece of paper, write down the time and put you can do tally marks, you can write the behavior and then do tally marks or something. So you know, this is how many times this has been happening. You don’t always have to have a fancy chart. You can just actually literally take notes in a notebook and you’re writing down what’s happening. That’s data too.
Frances Shefter: (00:27:18): There needs to be something to support anything that you do.
Jamilah Bashir: (00:27:21): Exactly. That’s just like I always tell people, I’m like, you know, you go to the doctor, if a doctor tells you you’re pregnant, you’re like, where are the results? You may not even know yourself, you’re like, where are the results? You know, or even if they say oh you have this disorder or you have this going on, you wanna see the results, right? So you wanna see the data? So same thing applies with education. If someone says, oh your child is failing, they’ve been failing, they’ve been failing. Show me, show me how, where have they been failing? You know, sometimes you know, sometimes as teachers, it’s like you might see something twice. It’s like, oh my gosh, mom, dad, we have ta da da da da da and it’s like cause OK, you saw it, OK, what did, what did you do to, you know, to kind of see, you know, if it’s something that you could change to help that kid be successful. Like sometimes I had students, they may have bombed the test. I’m gonna say, you know what I want you to take this in the morning because it’s the afternoon. Now I’m gonna give you exact, you wanna come back. I’m gonna, I’m changing the order of these questions. I want you to take this again cause I don’t think, I think you were tired. You know, I’ve done it. I could have easily just took that. But I’m like, ok, it’s the afternoon you just came from lunch. You know what I mean? It’s things like, you know, it, it’s some not, not that, that’s the case all the time but something small like that or you know what I see that you’re struggling with this. Let me do a small group with you and see if this helps or let me give you a graphic organizer, see if this helps you versus going into uproar immediately. It’s like let’s take a moment, let’s try do some tier one interventions, you know, that helps you to collect your data too. So in that way, even with you doing your tier one interventions in the classroom, then we can say, you know what, listen, the teacher has all this data. They’ve done boom, they’ve done ABC and D and the student is still struggling can let’s let’s do the tier two intervention and see if that helps, you know what I mean? And then that also helps the parent I wanna say be more accepting when they see the data cause it’s like, oh I see that you have done, you didn’t just say my child has this or my child is struggling with this. You actually have been working with my child to be successful and this is what you have done,
Frances Shefter: (00:29:42): And then for the parents to keep that data, like if they ask for it and it’s not given to them, like put it in writing, you know, like that, I asked for this on this day, you said you did tier one interventions for the last six weeks. I don’t, haven’t seen any data. Please start collecting data now and report in 2 months, you know, and have it in writing. So that like, you know, holding the schools accountable and you know, like the teacher of me is like, oh my God putting more on the teachers but you know what, that’s your job, that’s what you signed up for and that’s what it is.
Jamilah Bashir: (00:30:13): And then also just reaching out to other team members to help you too. Again, because like I didn’t, again, I didn’t give tests to parents like I will make a copy. I’m like, I can’t give you the original here. I can give you a copy of this but I can’t give you the original or whatever. But yeah, and then also as a teacher, keep the data that you have collected, even if you’re, even after that student has moved on, keep it for another year cause I, something can come back. I’m telling you something can happen. They’re like, oh when they were in your class last year, I always kept, I, once my students moved on to eighth grade I still kept everything for like a whole year just in case. And I remember in one particular year a lawyer came, the dad wanted his son to go to a a special education school. He was trying to paint the picture that we failed his son in the school and all that. And I’m just like his son did great. He was just, he had, he would get test anxiety, he always bomb tests, but he will do well in class. And thank God I still had that folder, I still had his folder of all his, he took all his assessments that he took all the writing that he did. I still had it. So I was able to share it with our district lawyer so that they could share. And we all were on the same page as he was like his son did, you know, he, he worked as hard as he could, you know, but you know, you definitely, you know.
Frances Shefter: (00:31:37): You need data to support it.
Jamilah Bashir: (00:31:38): You can’t just say data drives everything and also as a teacher, it protects you because you’re doing what you need to do. And then even as a parent, like if you’re seeing something in your child, take out of like ee even if you open up a note on your phone type, like you can write yourself a note. So then that way if you ever need to go to your child’s primary care physician, you have your data, it may notebook, it may be notes, it may be audio messages you left. Right. That’s data for you to
Frances Shefter: (00:32:07): do. Right. One of the things I do often is, you know, like I look at if my daughters had a really rough morning, you know, I’ll, I’ll usually email the teachers and be, like, just FYI, she’s had a rough morning, you know, to prep them for it to be like, you know, be a little more gentle because we know she’s probably coming in just regulated. But it’s even like looking at that and seeing when you get a note from your teacher from the teacher saying that, hey, your child did XYZ today,which is not usual behavior, taking a step back and looking at what else has been happening in this child’s life as the parent that could be causing that. And then let’s talk to the teacher about how to address it differently.
Jamilah Bashir: (00:32:48): Right. Right. So, just having that communication is extremely helpful too because like you said, the parent can say, oh, well, it was a rough night last night. You know, it could have been something happening in the family. It could be a family loss or loss of a pet or somebody’s sick. It, it could just be so many things going on and it causes the child to, you know, not be themselves going to school. So, like, yes, when you get that information as a teacher, it is extremely helpful. You know what I mean? You can do your check ins and then also even on the school side, being able to notify a parent. Like, listen, I got the results of what was it was student government. I’m like, we got it. So, and hey, he, he did not get the the role that he wanted somebody else won. And I had a, he had a whole breakdown. So after that, anytime he tried out for something, I always the teacher that was in charge, I’m like, please let me know the results before you share it with him because I need to tell his parents. So that way they can kinda prep him before he comes to school. So please notify me. So they like by a parent and they were very appreciative of that because I don’t think people understand you have to, you have to either be working with children who may, who have needs or you have a child yourself or someone in your family to understand that feeling when they are, when in the eyes of the child, they’re in crisis, in their eyes, they are in crisis and the amount of time it takes for them to decompress and come down, it can take anywhere from 15 minutes and it could take over an hour sometimes. So if we can do whatever we can do to minimize that from happening a meltdown. Absolutely. Let’s do what we need to do. Absolutely. Even though in the moment you’re also teaching them strategies on how to, yes, I don’t like the outcome. I don’t like it. Ok. What do I have control of? What can I do about it? You know what I mean? Because you are, yes, you want to allow them to have that moment to be compressed. But also at the same time, understanding like this is, you know, in, in life, these things happen, we don’t get what we want all the time and it’s like the quicker we can accept that we can move on and then it’s like, ok, what can I do different the next time? So that way that does not happen, you know, it’s so much going on in that moment. So it’s like when people, you know how people make comments about parents and their kids or even sometimes teachers, I’m just like you have no idea what they deal with a parent or even a teacher, the parent may be allowing that because you know what if I take this, it’s going to turn into something else. I don’t have the energy right now. You know what I mean? And it’s like you gotta give people grace.
Frances Shefter: (00:35:53): Yeah, I know like it always made me, makes me crazy because the schools still do it is that when the kids are misbehaving, they take away recess seriously. Usually kids are misbehaving because they have extra energy or anxiety. How do you think they’re gonna get rid of that recess? You know, like, and that’s the thing is like looking at what when a child becomes dysregulated, if you haven’t been able to prevent it? Why is the child dysregulated? And what can we do to bring the child out of? Like, and every child is different? Like, for example, my daughter needs to be, you do not talk to my daughter when she gets to that point and she goes to her small space, don’t talk to her, don’t interact. Just let her be when she’s processed and done her thing, she’ll come back and, and then we can talk it through. But like as you were saying, it’s better being proactive of like let’s prep somebody and teach them when this news happens. This is how we can deal with that upset emotion.
Jamilah Bashir: (00:36:52): And then there are gonna be times where hey, it happens and we have to deal with it, you know, I even had some parents who then you may refer to them as helicopter parents, you know, trying to remove every obstacle. And I’m like, no, we don’t want to do that and I understand you’re being as proactive as possible, but I’m like, then you will always do that the rest of their lives and then you may get mad at a certain point like you’re old enough, you should do it. But it’s like you never gave them the opportunity to do it to mess up and you support them and you know, what can we do better? And I never get the nurse in my old school. She said, do you wanna continue to carry your kid and walk through the mud for them or walk through the mud with them and then teach them how to clean themselves off. And I just, I just like that is, I was like, that is perfect, perfect because you know, you do want to get the support for your child, but also you wanna make sure you are not stunting their growth at the same time. And I did, I did learning support and I did emotional support. So when I did emotional support, yes, that’s like a whole another level, a whole other level of patience and tolerance that I had to have. Like I had that I had that student who would, every time something was uncomfortable for her just leave the classroom. I’m like, sweetheart, you can’t leave the classroom because listen, let’s pretend I’m your teacher right now. You just left and I don’t know where you are. What do you think? I’m thinking she’s like, oh, you might think something happened to me. I’m like, exactly where are you going? And she, her, her place was the bathroom and I’m like, don’t go to the bathroom and sit on the floor. I was like, that’s disgusting. Like the bathroom is nasty. I said, people go, I said, people go there to relieve themselves. You wanna sit in there? She was like, oh no, I’m like, no, I’m like, so we, it was like a lot of different things we were trying with her. We did colored cards, we did a red card, we did a yellow card and I said, what do you want yellow to mean? What do you want the red card to mean? So if your teachers see that, what does that mean? And that was something that we implemented for a while, it was working for her? And then there were some days where she had, she was having a meltdown and my aide knew, ok, if she couldn’t, you know, bring her down, then she always knew where I was and I would take her to my classroom wasn’t no one in there. She would scream. I thought, I thought she was gonna flip a couple of desks, you know, and I never get someone walking past me. Like, are you ok? I’m like, I’m fine, you know, I’m fine, but she needed to let that out. And then after she has let that out, if she was disrespectful in any way, that’s when I talk to her, I don’t talk to her while she is in, I’ll say her crisis in that meltdown. No, because just think about it, you’re, she’s not he or she’s not thinking rationally. That’s just like when you’re upset. You’re not as adults when we get, we’re not thinking rationally, you know. So, it’s like, don’t try to talk to somebody when you’re in that moment because there, you’re, you’re not even in a position to receive any information to process the information. Yeah,
Frances Shefter: (00:40:03): Exactly.
Jamilah Bashir: (00:40:05): And kids are the same way. So, it’s like afterwards when we talk, she said I apologize. I shouldn’t have said that da da da. And I was like, ok, so, you know, you need to go and apologize. Who else do you need to go and apologize to now that she can receive what I’m trying to say to her. She’s like, oh, I need to apologize to this person and that person because I shouldn’t have said that. And then also like even pushing back to her, I’m like, you have to open your mouth and say what it is you need or want, you can’t read your mind, right? So she would come in and never forget this one. So she didn’t do her homework. And so she had, didn’t do my homework and I just looked at her, I’m like, ok, you’re not even trying to help me. I’m like, I don’t recall you asking me anything, right? And she’s just like, I’m like, do you need help with your homework? Do you need a place to do your harm? Like you need to ask me a question, you didn’t ask me a question yet. And I had, and I had to tell her your crisis is not a crisis for me, your lack of planning, that’s not a crisis being, you know, and, and I, and I, that’s how I did talk to a lot of my students because I had some graders, they were older and I’m like, I talked to them that way because I’m like, I need you to understand that it’s a decision you made that puts you in this situation, right? And we gotta make some better decisions.
Frances Shefter: (00:41:20): And that, and that’s the thing like when a kid just regulated to teach them, ok, so this is how you reacted in this. What do you think we could have done differently?
Jamilah Bashir: (00:41:28): Exactly.
Frances Shefter: (00:41:29): That’s the, the, you know, cutting through.
Jamilah Bashir: (00:41:32): It’s the process like they had to go through the process to understand. Oh, this is what I, ok, I understand that because I, and every kid is different, every kid is different.
Frances Shefter: (00:41:42): And if we like, and if we have a kid that gets dysregulated and we punish them and put them in time out or whatever it is and then never process with them, that child’s never going to learn how to process emotions.
Jamilah Bashir: (00:41:56): Right. Right. And you have to like, and sometimes sometimes with some teachers and some parents, it’s like, well, you wanna just immediately remove something or give them with him like, no, we gotta learn. It’s like we gotta go through this. It’s like going through that transition. So that way they can get to the point where they understand this is the process so they can start to implement it themselves. That’s like, it’s like, if you have AAA student or a child who has sensory issues, it’s like, OK, you’re gonna have to go to the barbershop, you have to go to the barbershop because you have to get your hair cut. So you know what, we’re gonna have to put, we’re gonna have, we’re gonna be uncomfortable for a little bit while you get used to going to the barbershop. You know what I mean? We can’t remove it. It’s something you’re gonna do until they get used to it to be like, ok, this isn’t going to hurt me. I know when I go there, I’m gonna sit here for this many minutes. I’m gonna get my hair cut. I’m gonna look amazing afterwards. You know what I mean? It’s like you gotta put in that energy in those transition times because even think of anyone as an adult, like when something is new for us it’s, we’re uncomfortable. Yeah. But as we do it over and over it’s like, ok, it becomes a routine.
Frances Shefter: (00:43:12): Yeah, exactly. And that, and that’s what it’s all about. It’s teaching our Children how to do things and how to advocate themselves. And then also with you, with the IEP coaching stuff is that teaching the parents and the teachers of how to communicate and how to because as parents, we’re definitely not taught it either. And as we talked about at the beginning, teachers aren’t necessarily taught how to collect data or do you know IEPs or anything either?
Jamilah Bashir: (00:43:36): And it’s so helpful. Yes, it’s so helpful. Like, like you said, parents don’t always know what they don’t know or don’t know what questions to ask. So, like, OK, when we do parent workshops, a lot of our parent workshops will focus on IEPs IP meetings or 504 plans. And they’re like, oh OK, I didn’t know. And then like, oh the IEP OK, that’s what that is. Oh, those are the sections. And I actually, because I got so many questions during IEP meetings, that’s how we created our master IEP course because we got so many questions like it was like, oh what’s about IEP and what’s an IP again? And what’s that process? And you know, we had new teachers asking us that’s how we create, that’s why we created that course. And then now with our educators rise program, it’s the coaching program. It’s the coaching I never received. And I’m just like in the end there, we’re going, we’re uh we’re going over the laws, we’re going over case management, we’re going over progress monitoring and then also analyzing that data, we’re going over transition plans because no one ever, it wasn’t until I changed districts where they actually they had, they sent us to a training. I’m like, oh, my gosh. I had listen up this whole time, you know what I mean? How do I communicate with parents? How do I foster those relationships? How do I not get burned out? What are some things I can do? So that I don’t get burned out, you know what I mean? It’s just having, and then actually having access to somebody who you can ask your questions to, who can show you. Oh, this is the way to do it.
Frances Shefter: (00:45:10): Right. Right. Exactly. And I, I want to talk about your course a little bit more. So you have a course where can people access it? Who’s it designed for? Tell me a little bit of that.
Jamilah Bashir: (00:45:20): So that is our first baby. The Master IEP course. That is our first baby. It teaches you how to read and understand an IEP. And again, that course came about from a lot of questions we got from parents and new teachers and even sometimes related service providers because they’re so used to their section that they put in. They’re not really, I’m not gonna say they’re not worried about the other parts of the IEP, but they don’t have to. So it’s like some, like when we did the course, the first time it was a reading specialist because we did it live, she was just like, oh, I had no idea, you know, this was in this section. So it’s basically for parents new teachers and I’ll say any new related service providers , teaches you how to read and understand an IEP. And then also we go over so we go over every single last section. We go over the no rep, you know, and we do it with a fine tooth comb because I’m just like you have to pay attention to the NOREP why the NOREP is important. And then also we go…
Frances Shefter: (00:46:19) What are you, what are you referring to with the…
Jameela Bashir: (00:46:22): The notice of recommended education placement?
Frances Shefter: (00:46:25): Thank you. It’s different in every place we call LRE.
Jamilah Bashir: (00:46:30): the LRE OK. So least restrictive environment. OK. So, and in Pennsylvania we do the last part of the IEP is the NOREP that notice a recommended education placement. So that’s the part where your document. OK. They need this service, they need this placement, this service. This is why they need it. That’s the page that the parent actually signs off on.
Frances Shefter: (00:46:52): That’s the, that we use the prior written notice PWN in Maryland, it’s like it’s like before, like after the IEP meeting, this is what we discussed. This is why we did or didn’t do everything.
Jamilah Bashir: (00:47:04): And we go over the invitation to the IEP meeting and then we also go over what is it just the process beforehand? Like, oh, this is the time frame in between from when you put in evaluation. It’s just basically going over the timeline briefly, but it actually is a diy course, you can go at your own pace. , you can pause it, stop it go. You can, hey, if you, it’s, it’s three parts. If you wanna do three parts in one day, you can knock yourself out and do it. Also with the course you get access to our master IEP ebooks. So we have two ebooks, so that way when you’re done the course, they’re like a good reference for you to refer back to and they go through, it’s just like, again, references for you. Like let’s ok, let’s say the course is over for you, but you still have the ebooks at the reference for you. So you can go to www.mastertheiep.com. I try to be consistent with everything.
Frances Shefter: (00:48:04): Yeah. No, that’s great. And I know we, I know they’ll put the links in the show notes so people can get it. I just realized the time and I’m like, you know, this is one of the episodes that I could, I think we could talk all day. You know, there’s so much to unpack. But I so appreciate you coming on to the show and sharing. Do you, I know you said you were in Pennsylvania. Do you only serve families and schools in Pennsylvania or do you do other areas?
Jamilah Bashir: (00:48:30): We travel so like we’ll do, we’ll do some things virtually we also will, again, we’ll travel to the state to some places want a workshop if they want it virtually do it virtually. If they want it in person, we can do it in person too. So we travel throughout the the country for our work for professional development because we’re not just working with schools in Pennsylvania, but we work with schools across the country.
Frances Shefter: (00:48:54): That’s good to know. So, thank you so much. I am so glad we finally got you on the show and got to get more.
Jamilah Bashir: (00:49:01): Thank you.
VOICEOVER: (00:49:05): You’ve been listening to Stress-Free IEP® with your host, Frances Shefter. Remember you do not need to do it all alone. You can reach Frances through www.Shefterlaw.com where prior episodes are also posted. Thank you for your positive reviews, comments and sharing the show with others through youtube linkedin Apple podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher and more.
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