In this episode of Stress-Free IEP®, Frances Shefter speaks with Lisa Shaw, CEO & Founder of Mosaic Haven, offering teens with special needs customized, interactive & immersion experiences in the real-world to bridge the special education gap in preparing them for life after high school.
Lisa is a long-time professional dedicated to offering teens with special needs customized, interactive & immersion experiences in the real world that help bridge the special education gap in preparing them for life after high school.
Tune in to the episode to hear about:
Her personal passion for why preparing for life after high school is so important
Why it’s important to dream big for your kids
Strategies for support in school transitions
The right time to reach out to special education advocates and professionals
Frances Shefter is an Education Attorney and Advocate who is committed to helping her clients have a Stress-Free IEP® experience. In each podcast, Frances interviews inspiring people to share information, educate you, empower you and help you get the knowledge you need.
VOICEOVER: (00:00:02): Welcome to Stress-Free IEP®. You do not need to do it all alone with your host, Frances Shefter, Principal of Shefter Law. You can get more details and catch prior episodes at www.shefterlaw.com. The Stress-Free IEP® video podcast is also posted on YouTube and LinkedIn and you can listen to episodes through Apple podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher and more. Now, here’s the host of Stress-Free IEP® Frances Shefter.
Frances Shefter: (00:00:39): Hello everyone and welcome to the show. I am so excited about today’s special guest because if you’ve ever talked to me about IEPs transitions is just like my thorn right now because it’s so often neglected. So today’s special guest, Lisa Shaw with Mosaic Haven is a specialist in transition. So Lisa, welcome to the show. Tell us a little about yourself.
Lisa Shaw: (00:01:04): Thank you for allowing me to join you here today. I’m so excited to talk about transitions because I totally agree they are totally neglected and an afterthought. And how I got to this point of just having a passion with transition planning for families is with my own lived experience with my son. That’s now 20 he’s on the autism spectrum. But as we went through our journey, we continuously struggled with him in school from being able to make progress academically, but also being able to even access his education appropriately because his behavioral issues. And it wasn’t until he was aged 10 that we finally, after doctoring numerous, different places that we finally got that diagnosis of autism. And at that time, I was really, really excited that we had the diagnosis because I thought that that truly would set our son on a great path because we’d have a better understanding of what his needs are m for school, unfortunately, that IEP meeting that we had soon after being diagnosed. It did not turn out the way I was anticipating my husband and I instead of us going in there and really tearing into his IEP and making sure we get it more individualized for him that we were sat down by the special ed director and also a board certified behavioralist at the table that basically told us that due to his diagnosis and due to the past history that we were experienced in school, that we should start looking for group homes for him and that he needed to be prepared that he most likely won’t even be able to graduate due to his behaviors. At age 10, they had already provided what his future destiny was going to be,, and that he would not be able to drive or socialize. And basically they started secluding him in school. So, you know, that was the emotional meaning. I have to admit I, I fell apart after that meeting,
Frances Shefter: (00:03:51): As any parent would have.
Lisa Shaw: (00:03:54): After I had all my tears and everything, I pulled myself up and I said to my husband, I see so much potential in our son. I just, we don’t know how to tap into it, but we need to tap into it and then he can soar and he could succeed. And I don’t believe these professionals of what they are saying, our son’s destiny is, we just don’t have him on the right path. And that’s when I started dreaming big. I started going to the place in my thoughts of what’s my end game for my son?
Frances Shefter: (00:04:40): Good place to start. You got to know where you want to be before you can start the path.
Lisa Shaw: (00:04:44): Exactly. And so my husband and I dreamed big of, you know, what kind of capabilities do we want our son to have by the, when he transitions out of special education? What’s his life style gonna look like? What is the employment is gonna look like? What’s his engagement in the community going to look like? And I drew up that concept in my head and I communicated that to the IEP team. And that’s when I really dug into. We need to start because it was right around the corner of him being age 12 to start talking about transition planning to start telling them this is what his post-secondary life is gonna look like. So now we need to as a team, individualize his IEP to give him the skills, the opportunities and experiences and sports needed to get him to, to that goal.
Frances Shefter: (00:05:50): So in other words, they need to follow the law because I that clearly states.
Lisa Shaw: (00:05:55): Yes. Exactly. Exactly. But that was the turning point of me being able to give my son’s IEP team an anchor and I call it anchor because all of our conversations from then on was based on is this a good goal that will help get him to the ultimate vision of where he needs to be after he graduates from high school. And that really helped with the decision makings to know where the placement should be for him, what goals he should have and what even supports he should have.
Frances Shefter: (00:06:49): I love this because, you know, most IEP meetings are, here’s your strengths, here’s your weaknesses and let’s do the goals on the weaknesses to build those up. But if you focus on the strengths and where we want to be, the weirdness are going to catch up because they have to or you know what, hey, everybody jokes around lawyers don’t do well with math. My accountant, like, I probably make my accountant crazy because I’m like, I don’t get it. You know, it’s ok that you have weaknesses. Like this is so amazing that actually focus on. Yeah, you don’t, this child is going to become.
Lisa Shaw: (00:07:25): Exactly. Exactly. And, you know and that’s how I got into helping so many families of starting to have hope for their child’s future because we do focus so much on what our children’s deficits are. That the parents do lose hope of what that future is gonna look like. And they get so overwhelmed and they feel very disheartened in a dark place because the adulthood could be a very unknown, scary spot for their child. But it doesn’t have to be in today’s world if we navigate that IEP process appropriately.
Frances Shefter: (00:08:9): Yeah. No. And I, you know, I have schools often, a lot of cases have come in recently that the schools are trying to push the alternative learning outcomes, which they say, oh, it’s just for now, you can always go back. It’s not telling, it’s not saying he’s on a certificate track. He still could be getting a high school diploma, which us on the advocate and legal side. It’s baloney because you’re taking the child out of the general education curriculum and putting the child into alternative learning outcomes. So every year they might progress on those, but they’re falling farther behind and they’re doing this to kids in kindergarten and 1st and 2nd grade.
Lisa Shaw: (00:08:52): You know, it’s horrific. And, you know, at the end of the day then you can’t get caught back up if truly your ultimate dream for your child to be able to go to college. Well, they need to have that diploma, not just a certificate of completion. And if you determine that too late in the game, such as the last year that they’re in school, they don’t have any time to gain those credits that’s needed. And then you’ve compromised on what your dream and goals are. So if you have that anchor of where, what’s the end game, where do we need to get to? You have a little bit more leverage to discuss that, you know, this alternative assessment, alternative way to learn is not going to get my child to his post-secondary vision that we need him to be.
Frances Shefter: (00:9:51):It’s all about the end game and the ultimate and, and, or the future. You know, that’s what education, excuse me, all supposed to be about and what IDE says is we’re supposed to be preparing our Children for what’s next, what’s after this? It makes me crazy because the kids are allowed to be in school 21/22 depending on your state and, but they don’t give the kids at the early ages, that extra time they might need because so many schools won’t hold a child back, fail a child in the early grades because of what it does to them emotionally, which is baloney because sometimes a second year of kindergarten is all the child needs and then they’re going to flourish. But if you don’t do it now the kid’s gonna just behind, behind, behind and running to catch up his whole life.
Lisa Shaw: (00:10:45): Yep. And that’s why it’s so important. I know the special education process can be so intimidating and overwhelming. But that is why it’s so imperative that parents are active advocates and are at that table and feel like they have the skills and, or they have the support if they bring in an advocate such as you and I to be at that table to ensure their voices are being heard because as you know, idea law says that parents have an equal voice at that IEP table and unfortunately parents don’t. And I was one of those parents that you think these are professionals and they should know best for my child, know better than me. And you know what, in the ultimate world. Yeah, that’s probably how it should work. But in reality, the systems are currently are broken out there. And so we can’t rely on that if we truly want our children to have a successful life and live a life where they feel like they have a purpose and they have value and they belong to their community and that takes the entire school year from pre-k all the way through, you know, grade 12. And, or if you choose up through age 21/22.
Frances Shefter: (00:12:24): Right. And it’s just, you know, it’s frustrating that parents have to bring advocates or even to the level when they need to call me as an attorney., I’m the advocate also because of the education background, but I also have the attorney level that schools bump it up when an attorney comes. I don’t know if you’ve seen that on, they don’t necessarily with an advocate. But it’s just what I always tell potential clients and people that call is educate yourself. Like I don’t, that’s why I have my YouTube channel with over 100 videos to, to educate. And I tell people if you need a topic, if you have a question, throw it in, I’ll do a video real quick. That parents need to know that they parents, the schools don’t always get it right. And the schools don’t always have, I don’t want to say they don’t have the best interest of the child. But unfortunately, what happens is the schools got higher ups that are putting pressure on for certain things. They won’t let you do certain things and say you’re not allowed to do that and the teachers are bound because that’s their job. They can’t go against their employer. And it’s just frustrating because they don’t know what to do. Whereas when parents come in educated and I’ve seen, and I don’t know if you’ve seen also, but when parents come in educated and knowing the language and knowing the buzzwords, they definitely perk up a lot. You know, they perk up a little bit more because, like, wait, they know what they’re talking about.
Lisa Shaw: (00:13:59): Yeah. Absolutely. And, you know, when I say the system is broken, it is not the teachers because they, like you even expressed the teachers want the best for their students. That’s why they got in this field. But there are so many things going up against these teachers anymore with resource constraints with budget cuts and like you said, administration and laws and um all the documentation that they have to do besides actual direct teaching. So that’s where as parents need to go in there and truly are helping that teacher to help that teacher to know exactly what your child needs are for. It’s easier sometimes to help the teacher to prioritize the work that she needs to do with your child if you guys are partnering and collaborating together. Otherwise, you know, she could be floundering too as she has a humongous caseload of other students.
Frances Shefter: (00:15:03): And I always say, like advocates and attorneys don’t have to be adversarial and I usually say we don’t need to be and we shouldn’t be, yes, there will be a point in time where we will sue the school system if we need to, doesn’t have to be adversarial. You know it’s about the child and, and that’s what we need to remember. I have a client that brings the picture of her son to every IEP meeting and puts a picture up. So, like that’s what who we’re talking about. We’re not talking about this, we’re talking about this kid right here.
Lisa Shaw: (00:15:35): Collaboration gets you so much further than being fighting and arguing and everything. Yep.
Frances Shefter: (00:15:42): Right. So you said you fo your business focuses, I know you do advocacy also but you focus on the older because of transition or do you do all?
Lisa Shaw: (00:15:53): I do all. But my niche passion just organically based on the families that I’ve been working with is more that age 12 to 21 that transition because there is such a gap out there in a need. And unfortunately, the schools, the teachers aren’t thoroughly trained on transition planning themselves either. So it is a new concept if the parents truly want to go in there and you know, maximize what special education can actually provide to their child because it’s so important to maximize that special education supports and services that they can offer before you transition into adult services. Because that’s a totally different beast in adult services.
Frances Shefter: (00:16:53): And the school is supposed to help transition to adult services. Like, when I taught in Florida, when I was alternative middle and high school, we had somebody from the adult services at the IEP meeting for our kids that are ready to transition out to make it easy. And it made me crazy when I came back up to Maryland and as an attorney and where, where’s, you know, where’s the DORS persons where, you know, and they’re like, oh, they’re not here.. And they just, they, oh, we gave the parents the forums. I’m like, that’s not what you’re supposed to do.
Lisa Shaw: (00:17:30): Yeah, exactly. And that’s where I always tell my clients that, you know, there’s that phenomena of falling off the cliff of when special education services stop. And then the families feel like they’re just falling off the cliff because they’ve aged out and they don’t have any other services and then the child just sits at home and that’s where I say to my families, you can avoid that phenomena, but you have to create a large runway of getting your child prepared. And that is why it’s so important to start working at the age of 12 to 14 with your IEP team to get prepared for that transition to adulthood, to avoid that phenomena. Otherwise, you know, the longer that runway, the more successful they can be as adults.
Frances Shefter: (00:18:36): it doesn’t have to be written in stone. You know, you can be on one runway and swerve or pivot however you want to call it to another. But just like knowing that end goal and I’m assuming you help your clients come up with what’s a realistic end goal?
Lisa Shaw: (00:18:52): Yes. So what I have to do is that when the parents reach out to me and they pretty much reach out to me asking me, please review my child’s IEP. You know, we’re struggling, we’re worried they’re gonna be graduating next year or two years. What we don’t feel we have any good direction. And the first thing before I even look at their IEP, I always ask them, what’s the end game? What are you, what should the 3-5 years out viewpoint looks like? What capabilities, what experiences and opportunities do you want your child to have? And I help them to find that to find that vision statement. And we use that as I said earlier as an anchor for me, then to go into that IEP and look at it and get prepared for an IEP meeting where we can present to them. This is our vision for our child and these are the areas maybe we need to start collaborating and tweaking for goals and everything to make and maybe even do additional assessments. Folks don’t even understand that there is, you know, transition assessments and there’s the standard IEP annual three year annual assessments and they are different assessments and, we need to be asking for those transition assessments. That parents don’t need know, to ask and unfortunately schools don’t offer.
Frances Shefter: (00:20:35): Yeah. The standard stuff. I mean, I can’t tell you how many IEP si saw will research for your college. That’s what every senior that wants to go to college does. Like, how is that individualized?.
Lisa Shaw: (00:20:52): Exactly. And so, well, after,, we go through that, I, I pretty much helped the family create a transition plan that we then collaborate with the IEP team to make sure everyone knows who’s accountable for which components of that transition plan, to make sure that the child continuously makes progress towards their end goals after high school.
Frances Shefter: (00:21:20): Yeah, and I, I mean, I’m thinking back to my teachers days and, you know, when I was in the classroom, regular ed and special ed and I’m like, yeah, I would have liked when, if parents came in and said this is what we want to focus on. This is the goal because I mean, when I taught decades ago, it was handwriting IEPs, let’s put it that way. And, you know, I was having eight IEP meetings all in one day and having to write eight IEPs, which I did the best I could. But I’ll tell you now, teachers don’t learn how to write IEPs. It’s never really taught. And so I’m doing the best I can if I have a parent that comes in and it’s like, ok, so this is what I want. This is what I see. I love it because it’s, now we’re working together and we’re focused on the child.
Lisa Shaw: (00:22:9): Exactly. And that’s what I would. That’s why I always say that that’s why we fall into that cookie cutter situation because it is, the teachers are, their workload is enormous unimaginable. So it’s easy to fall into the cookie cutter situation. But then on top of that, if they don’t have a clear vision of where they need to get their, that this child, then, yeah, they fall back to the state standards, potentially a, from an academic perspective instead of individualizing it. And so, yeah, I totally agree with you on that philosophy. Yeah.
Frances Shefter: (00:22:52): And they have the core standards there. So what is core standard? Does this, does this goal meet? And then you can have a word, a bank and I actually had a teacher one time do the bank and not, you know, pull up bank goal and not fill in the student’s name and the numbers and stuff. And I’m like, I’m ok with using a bank, but then you need to individualize it for this child.
And it’s one of the questions I love to ask teacher, and, but not that I like to put teachers on the spot. But I always say why is this goal important? Where did you get this goal? And that goes back to the present levels and making sure that the present levels are written the whole point of the present levels is this is where the child is function. This is where the child is, what they can do and their weaknesses. And so what do we need to do to help them be more successful?
Lisa Shaw: (00:23:52): You got it. And that comes out of the assessments that we do too to understand those present levels.
Frances Shefter: (00:23:59): And knowing what assessments.Yeah. And then that’s a whole other thing.
Lisa Shaw: (00:24:07): And I know the system works because I’ve seen so many success stories and getting back to my own son’s success stories m of where the IEP team members and the professionals had the destiny of my son’s future now that he’s 20. And I’ve used this approach. I’m happy to say that he is in the process of transitioning into living independently in his own condo.
Frances Shefter: (00:24:39): That’s awesome.
Lisa Shaw: (00:24:42): He drives. He works part time in a competitive, integrated work environment when he gets done with graduates or exits out of special education. This coming spring, He will be transitioning to a full time job in that same spot and he is very active in the community. He participates in the community playhouse, providing all the technical support behind the scenes. And he’s on a bowling league. So he had a very productive life where he feels like he has a purpose and he belongs and he has value. It’s taken us a long time to get to that, but we had that vision and we had used that as our road map to continuously refine that IEP and transition plan to individualize it for his own purpose. And that’s how the other families I work with, how we change that trajectory of what their future is going to look like.
Frances Shefter: (00:25:53): I’m dying to know. Did you go back to that first IEP team and say, like, look at my son now.
Lisa Shaw: (00:26:00): When he graduated 12th grade, he was able to walk across the stage with his class even though we didn’t take the diploma yet until he exits. And so we, God love my son. He has such a big heart. So he doesn’t see all the struggles that we’ve had with relationships with some of the school members. He just loves everyone. And so he wanted to invite some of those folks to his graduation from elementary because at age 10, he was going from elementary school to junior high. And so I said to my husband by gosh, we’re going to invite them for everything off. So some of them came and they’re like, they even admitted I would have never dreamt Lisa that Alex would have been at this point at all. I mean, they all had that same sentiment. But the other sentiment that they did have, they said, but you know what? He had a mama bear that had a lot of fire within her. And we’re not surprised that he made this progress because we knew you believed in him and I have always believed in him and I’ll never not believe in him. So that’s kind of interesting the two sentiments that they all kind of set at graduation day.
Frances Shefter: (00:27:27): Which to me is also kind of sad that they said that they had you to fight for him. I’m like, what the teachers are supposed to be doing and I mean, I’m not knocking, teachers don’t, you know, and, and I know it’s hard enough and you can’t necessarily go up against your principal at a central office, but it’s just, the system is broken. There should not be a reason A to pinhole a child at that young of an age or even younger than I have. Some people do. And B to not be able to truly talk about what the needs of this child is and where we can get, you know, let’s set the goal up here in, in two years if we need to bring it down a little. Ok. But don’t start here and then see if we, you know.
Lisa Shaw: (00:28:13): Exactly. But you know what you have to have somewhat of a reach goal, not a, you know, a goal that is totally out of range.
Frances Shefter: (00:28:25): You’re not talking about Harvard Law School.
Lisa Shaw: (00:28:28): But you’d be so surprised that the students, how they will rise to the occasion if they have the right support and services. If you give them that push, because my son is a perfect example that he’d be OK with status quo. But if we keep raise the bar incrementally, um and making sure he’s successful as we’re raising the bar, he will rise always to the occasion and that’s why we are where we are. And you know, I always also tell parents that they are the only consistent cheerleader advocate, dreamer on your child’s team because from year to year the teachers change, administrators change. And so that’s why you have to have that passion within you to believe in your child and to dream for your child. Before it comes to flourish because the teachers do not go along the whole journey with you.
Frances Shefter: (00:29:38): Right. And it’s, you know, I hate the special education, blah, blah, blah. And somebody said, and I’m forgetting who. so I apologize if you’re watching the show, but it’s, it’s yeah, special education because your child is special because every child is special. You know, it’s, I hate that it’s like such a negative still like I know, when I was younger it was the special ed, you know, like you didn’t do anything but now what’s wrong with it? So, what I’m on the spectrum and, yeah, I have ADHD so I can do this better than that because my brain does that, you know? And that’s the thing.
Lisa Shaw: (00:30:16): Because they, they pigeonholed our kids into a stigma, a stigma and everything. Which, I don’t agree with and that’s where we could do a totally different segment about, you know, employment, pigeonhole, you know, when they do special education provides employment opportunities and it’s cleaning cafeteria tables and I have a whole slew of additional different employment opportunities that can be done at a school that’s not just cleaning tables or emptying trash such as working in the tech department working in the front office, administrative duties, things like that. But you have to come to the table and think outside the box and also have that vision that my child is going to have a job beyond just the standard quo maybe cleaning and taking trash out.
Frances Shefter: (00:31:24): Don’t take no, you know, I have one of my videos. I called it the Sheftawaybecuase of my father, of, you know, yes, you’re saying no. Now because you don’t have the capability. Give me the next person who does have the capability and keep going up the ladder until you get what you want and what your child needs. Because, you know, like, and, and I said it before, like, when you bring an attorney, what the best part about bringing an attorney versus an advocate is that somebody from central office comes. Yeah. And that’s the difference because central office I’ve had, I love my central office people. They come and they’re like, oh, no, no, no. Wait, let’s try this. And they’re, they’re more receptive to our suggestions and they’re more, they’re looking outside the box and looking at whole picture because teachers, you can’t like, teachers can’t know everything that’s out there. And that’s why central office is there is to help give you what else is out there and to open those doors.
Lisa Shaw: (00:32:28): That’s where part of individualization of our child’s um education programming is truly thinking outside the box. That’s when it’s a very powerful individualized IEP and transition plan when you think outside that box. And once again, the system sometimes just gets into a rut and they’re just, you know, it’s just widgets, let’s, let’s just process through all these IEP meetings and let’s just, it’s just a thing to do check checklist as I call it sometimes. And that’s where us parents have to have the courage to have that voice of saying no, stop. Think outside the box. I’m going to challenge the status quo to be able to really make it a meaningful educational program.
Frances Shefter: (00:33:26): Right. And earlier is better. That’s what I always say.
Lisa Shaw: (00:33:29): Absolutely. You cannot start too early.
Frances Shefter: (00:33:33): I have people say, like, when should I bring an advocate or an attorney in? I’m like, if you’re thinking about it now, if that thought came in your head now make the call now, you know, because that’s the thing. If you wait two years. Ok. Fine. Yes, we can help in two years, but that’s two years of your child’s life that is totally different.
Lisa Shaw: (00:33:53): Exactly.
Frances Shefter: (00:33:55): It’s just not, and I’m not knocking parents or saying anybody does it wrong. We all parent differently but it’s at least educate yourself and do it and just be there for your child as the parent as we all are in our ways, you know, but it’s just support them and, you know, be their cheerleader, be their biggest cheerleader.
Lisa Shaw: (00:34:13): And that’s where, you know, I always say I’d rather have parents be proactive than reactive. And unfortunately we get called in as attorneys and advocates because it’s a reactive situation and it can be much harder and challenging to turn the trajectory versus if you’re proactive and the parents reach out to folks like you or I of understanding what are the rights and how to navigate the process, it’s gonna be probably easier too. And make sure that there doesn’t have to be such a big correction potentially on the path if you’re more proactive.
Frances Shefter: (00:34:59): And what I say is like, we can come in there when we’re all on the same page and working together. If you wait until you’re on different pages, schools dig it in. I’m not listen to that attorney or advocate. I’m the teacher. I, you know, I’m the school and I don’t say teacher, I’m the school and we know what we’re doing and then you’re here and then you got to fight because they’re digging in. They’re not. And, and that’s human nature, you know, like is that I’m right. You’re wrong when you get to adversaries come up that, you know, and it’s that negotiation kind of goes away.
Lisa Shaw: (00:35:33): And who loses unfortunately the child because they are losing valuable time because the time that they’re in school, it’s, it’s a small window and, you know, I, I could go on on an totally never podcast with you in regards to parents cannot feel or have the philosophy that it’s solely the school’s responsibility to prepare their child for life after high school. That it has to be something that’s worked on in all environments, at home, in the community and at school. So that’s another reason why the parents really need to be actively involved in getting that their child prepared for life after high school. And not just think I’m sending them to school and magically the school is going to get prepared because that’s not gonna happen.
Frances Shefter: (00:36:33): They can’t do all of it, you know. There’s only so much, but that’s why, that’s part of the reason I started the show is to be like, look, here’s people that you can call out to, to help you if you need help with this or you need help with that. You know, you, you don’t have to do it all alone. That’s, you know, my tagline, you do not need to do it all alone.
Lisa Shaw: (00:36:58): And that’s, that’s the uniqueness I bring to my clients because I have that lived experience. I understand it. It’s hard to even see the forest because we as parents are deep into, inside the woods and can’t see too far from day to day. Sometimes we’re trying to just survive hour to hour. Lisa, the next 3 to 5 years of my for my child. How would I even have that vision?
Frances Shefter: (00:37:25): I’ll be honest, I can’t even find homework time. A lot of times, you know, my kids are elementary school.
Lisa Shaw: (00:37:32): That’s where proactively reaching out to specialists like myself and you to help you think through that vision, will be a, a good team member to add to your team to help you through that process for you not to get more pressure on you thinking the weight of the world on your shoulders. And the other challenge that parents do have because they are inside the forest and they can’t see the, the, every, the whole view is that the, the parents get stuck of not being able to dream big for their child, but they only see their, their deficiencies of their child today and they don’t see what capabilities that maybe they should have, be able to do or could do. And so that’s where proactively talking to someone like myself can help the parents talk through, you know, what these are all the options that’s out there. They don’t have to just the, the living independently doesn’t mean that you have to go to a group or they live at home. There’s other things in between that spectrum to be able to talk through that and look at, you know, there’s so many things and options out there. Don’t settle for the status quo.
Frances Shefter: (00:39:02): Yeah, I love that. And you have, I think if I’m remembering correctly, you have a course about dreaming big or something.
Lisa Shaw: (00:39:9): Yes, I do. I have a on demand course where families can actually go through the course and it’s from the beginning of dreaming big creating that vision of what their child’s future is gonna look like. And then taking them step by step by step, a comprehensive overview of how to create those post-secondary goals and what transition assessments that they should be requesting and how then to individualize the IEP and then if someone really wants even more customized service that then I layer on top of that me working through all of that with them and even providing opportunities for me to come to IEP meetings and help facilitate these discussions. Just for the families really know that they have that support that they need.
Frances Shefter: (00:40:10): Yeah. No. And that’s great that there’s the different levels of, you know, and that’s why that’s th this show and my YouTube channel and stuff. It’s like, OK, don’t need us yet, you know, go try and do it, you can do it. I say all the time, I wish I didn’t have a job. Because it would mean the schools are educating our children the way they need to and the school system has gotten better and, and are doing it right is never going to happen. Unfortunately. It’s gotten a lot better.
So where can people find about your show? Like, where are you? Sorry about your course? Like how can they sign up for it?
Lisa Shaw: (00:40:48): Yes. So they can actually go on the web permission www.dreambig.com or my business www.mosiachaven.com. I’m also on Facebook and Instagram under Mosaic Haven.
Frances Shefter: (00:41:06): Great. Thank you. And all of those links are going to be in the show notes when you post. Thank you so much, Lisa. This has been amazing. I love transitions. Yeah, and helping the families. Thank you so much.
Lisa Shaw: (00:41:19): You’re welcome. Bye everyone.
VOICEOVER: (00:41:21): You’ve been listening to Stress-Free IEP® with your host, Frances Shefter. Remember you do not need to do it all alone. You can reach Frances through www.shefterlaw.com where prior episodes are also posted. Thank you for your positive reviews, comments and sharing the show with others through YouTube, LinkedIn Apple podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher, and more.
Transition Planning for Life After High School with Lisa Shaw
Stress-Free IEP® with Frances Shefter, Episode 37
In this episode of Stress-Free IEP®, Frances Shefter speaks with Lisa Shaw, CEO & Founder of Mosaic Haven, offering teens with special needs customized, interactive & immersion experiences in the real-world to bridge the special education gap in preparing them for life after high school.
Lisa is a long-time professional dedicated to offering teens with special needs customized, interactive & immersion experiences in the real world that help bridge the special education gap in preparing them for life after high school.
Tune in to the episode to hear about:
Learn more about Lisa Shaw:
Stress-Free IEP®:
Frances Shefter is an Education Attorney and Advocate who is committed to helping her clients have a Stress-Free IEP® experience. In each podcast, Frances interviews inspiring people to share information, educate you, empower you and help you get the knowledge you need.
Watch more episodes of Stress-Free IEP®:
Connect and learn more from your host, Frances Shefter:
FULL TRANSCRIPT:
VOICEOVER: (00:00:02): Welcome to Stress-Free IEP®. You do not need to do it all alone with your host, Frances Shefter, Principal of Shefter Law. You can get more details and catch prior episodes at www.shefterlaw.com. The Stress-Free IEP® video podcast is also posted on YouTube and LinkedIn and you can listen to episodes through Apple podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher and more. Now, here’s the host of Stress-Free IEP® Frances Shefter.
Frances Shefter: (00:00:39): Hello everyone and welcome to the show. I am so excited about today’s special guest because if you’ve ever talked to me about IEPs transitions is just like my thorn right now because it’s so often neglected. So today’s special guest, Lisa Shaw with Mosaic Haven is a specialist in transition. So Lisa, welcome to the show. Tell us a little about yourself.
Lisa Shaw: (00:01:04): Thank you for allowing me to join you here today. I’m so excited to talk about transitions because I totally agree they are totally neglected and an afterthought. And how I got to this point of just having a passion with transition planning for families is with my own lived experience with my son. That’s now 20 he’s on the autism spectrum. But as we went through our journey, we continuously struggled with him in school from being able to make progress academically, but also being able to even access his education appropriately because his behavioral issues. And it wasn’t until he was aged 10 that we finally, after doctoring numerous, different places that we finally got that diagnosis of autism. And at that time, I was really, really excited that we had the diagnosis because I thought that that truly would set our son on a great path because we’d have a better understanding of what his needs are m for school, unfortunately, that IEP meeting that we had soon after being diagnosed. It did not turn out the way I was anticipating my husband and I instead of us going in there and really tearing into his IEP and making sure we get it more individualized for him that we were sat down by the special ed director and also a board certified behavioralist at the table that basically told us that due to his diagnosis and due to the past history that we were experienced in school, that we should start looking for group homes for him and that he needed to be prepared that he most likely won’t even be able to graduate due to his behaviors. At age 10, they had already provided what his future destiny was going to be,, and that he would not be able to drive or socialize. And basically they started secluding him in school. So, you know, that was the emotional meaning. I have to admit I, I fell apart after that meeting,
Frances Shefter: (00:03:51): As any parent would have.
Lisa Shaw: (00:03:54): After I had all my tears and everything, I pulled myself up and I said to my husband, I see so much potential in our son. I just, we don’t know how to tap into it, but we need to tap into it and then he can soar and he could succeed. And I don’t believe these professionals of what they are saying, our son’s destiny is, we just don’t have him on the right path. And that’s when I started dreaming big. I started going to the place in my thoughts of what’s my end game for my son?
Frances Shefter: (00:04:40): Good place to start. You got to know where you want to be before you can start the path.
Lisa Shaw: (00:04:44): Exactly. And so my husband and I dreamed big of, you know, what kind of capabilities do we want our son to have by the, when he transitions out of special education? What’s his life style gonna look like? What is the employment is gonna look like? What’s his engagement in the community going to look like? And I drew up that concept in my head and I communicated that to the IEP team. And that’s when I really dug into. We need to start because it was right around the corner of him being age 12 to start talking about transition planning to start telling them this is what his post-secondary life is gonna look like. So now we need to as a team, individualize his IEP to give him the skills, the opportunities and experiences and sports needed to get him to, to that goal.
Frances Shefter: (00:05:50): So in other words, they need to follow the law because I that clearly states.
Lisa Shaw: (00:05:55): Yes. Exactly. Exactly. But that was the turning point of me being able to give my son’s IEP team an anchor and I call it anchor because all of our conversations from then on was based on is this a good goal that will help get him to the ultimate vision of where he needs to be after he graduates from high school. And that really helped with the decision makings to know where the placement should be for him, what goals he should have and what even supports he should have.
Frances Shefter: (00:06:49): I love this because, you know, most IEP meetings are, here’s your strengths, here’s your weaknesses and let’s do the goals on the weaknesses to build those up. But if you focus on the strengths and where we want to be, the weirdness are going to catch up because they have to or you know what, hey, everybody jokes around lawyers don’t do well with math. My accountant, like, I probably make my accountant crazy because I’m like, I don’t get it. You know, it’s ok that you have weaknesses. Like this is so amazing that actually focus on. Yeah, you don’t, this child is going to become.
Lisa Shaw: (00:07:25): Exactly. Exactly. And, you know and that’s how I got into helping so many families of starting to have hope for their child’s future because we do focus so much on what our children’s deficits are. That the parents do lose hope of what that future is gonna look like. And they get so overwhelmed and they feel very disheartened in a dark place because the adulthood could be a very unknown, scary spot for their child. But it doesn’t have to be in today’s world if we navigate that IEP process appropriately.
Frances Shefter: (00:08:9): Yeah. No. And I, you know, I have schools often, a lot of cases have come in recently that the schools are trying to push the alternative learning outcomes, which they say, oh, it’s just for now, you can always go back. It’s not telling, it’s not saying he’s on a certificate track. He still could be getting a high school diploma, which us on the advocate and legal side. It’s baloney because you’re taking the child out of the general education curriculum and putting the child into alternative learning outcomes. So every year they might progress on those, but they’re falling farther behind and they’re doing this to kids in kindergarten and 1st and 2nd grade.
Lisa Shaw: (00:08:52): You know, it’s horrific. And, you know, at the end of the day then you can’t get caught back up if truly your ultimate dream for your child to be able to go to college. Well, they need to have that diploma, not just a certificate of completion. And if you determine that too late in the game, such as the last year that they’re in school, they don’t have any time to gain those credits that’s needed. And then you’ve compromised on what your dream and goals are. So if you have that anchor of where, what’s the end game, where do we need to get to? You have a little bit more leverage to discuss that, you know, this alternative assessment, alternative way to learn is not going to get my child to his post-secondary vision that we need him to be.
Frances Shefter: (00:9:51):It’s all about the end game and the ultimate and, and, or the future. You know, that’s what education, excuse me, all supposed to be about and what IDE says is we’re supposed to be preparing our Children for what’s next, what’s after this? It makes me crazy because the kids are allowed to be in school 21/22 depending on your state and, but they don’t give the kids at the early ages, that extra time they might need because so many schools won’t hold a child back, fail a child in the early grades because of what it does to them emotionally, which is baloney because sometimes a second year of kindergarten is all the child needs and then they’re going to flourish. But if you don’t do it now the kid’s gonna just behind, behind, behind and running to catch up his whole life.
Lisa Shaw: (00:10:45): Yep. And that’s why it’s so important. I know the special education process can be so intimidating and overwhelming. But that is why it’s so imperative that parents are active advocates and are at that table and feel like they have the skills and, or they have the support if they bring in an advocate such as you and I to be at that table to ensure their voices are being heard because as you know, idea law says that parents have an equal voice at that IEP table and unfortunately parents don’t. And I was one of those parents that you think these are professionals and they should know best for my child, know better than me. And you know what, in the ultimate world. Yeah, that’s probably how it should work. But in reality, the systems are currently are broken out there. And so we can’t rely on that if we truly want our children to have a successful life and live a life where they feel like they have a purpose and they have value and they belong to their community and that takes the entire school year from pre-k all the way through, you know, grade 12. And, or if you choose up through age 21/22.
Frances Shefter: (00:12:24): Right. And it’s just, you know, it’s frustrating that parents have to bring advocates or even to the level when they need to call me as an attorney., I’m the advocate also because of the education background, but I also have the attorney level that schools bump it up when an attorney comes. I don’t know if you’ve seen that on, they don’t necessarily with an advocate. But it’s just what I always tell potential clients and people that call is educate yourself. Like I don’t, that’s why I have my YouTube channel with over 100 videos to, to educate. And I tell people if you need a topic, if you have a question, throw it in, I’ll do a video real quick. That parents need to know that they parents, the schools don’t always get it right. And the schools don’t always have, I don’t want to say they don’t have the best interest of the child. But unfortunately, what happens is the schools got higher ups that are putting pressure on for certain things. They won’t let you do certain things and say you’re not allowed to do that and the teachers are bound because that’s their job. They can’t go against their employer. And it’s just frustrating because they don’t know what to do. Whereas when parents come in educated and I’ve seen, and I don’t know if you’ve seen also, but when parents come in educated and knowing the language and knowing the buzzwords, they definitely perk up a lot. You know, they perk up a little bit more because, like, wait, they know what they’re talking about.
Lisa Shaw: (00:13:59): Yeah. Absolutely. And, you know, when I say the system is broken, it is not the teachers because they, like you even expressed the teachers want the best for their students. That’s why they got in this field. But there are so many things going up against these teachers anymore with resource constraints with budget cuts and like you said, administration and laws and um all the documentation that they have to do besides actual direct teaching. So that’s where as parents need to go in there and truly are helping that teacher to help that teacher to know exactly what your child needs are for. It’s easier sometimes to help the teacher to prioritize the work that she needs to do with your child if you guys are partnering and collaborating together. Otherwise, you know, she could be floundering too as she has a humongous caseload of other students.
Frances Shefter: (00:15:03): And I always say, like advocates and attorneys don’t have to be adversarial and I usually say we don’t need to be and we shouldn’t be, yes, there will be a point in time where we will sue the school system if we need to, doesn’t have to be adversarial. You know it’s about the child and, and that’s what we need to remember. I have a client that brings the picture of her son to every IEP meeting and puts a picture up. So, like that’s what who we’re talking about. We’re not talking about this, we’re talking about this kid right here.
Lisa Shaw: (00:15:35): Collaboration gets you so much further than being fighting and arguing and everything. Yep.
Frances Shefter: (00:15:42): Right. So you said you fo your business focuses, I know you do advocacy also but you focus on the older because of transition or do you do all?
Lisa Shaw: (00:15:53): I do all. But my niche passion just organically based on the families that I’ve been working with is more that age 12 to 21 that transition because there is such a gap out there in a need. And unfortunately, the schools, the teachers aren’t thoroughly trained on transition planning themselves either. So it is a new concept if the parents truly want to go in there and you know, maximize what special education can actually provide to their child because it’s so important to maximize that special education supports and services that they can offer before you transition into adult services. Because that’s a totally different beast in adult services.
Frances Shefter: (00:16:53): And the school is supposed to help transition to adult services. Like, when I taught in Florida, when I was alternative middle and high school, we had somebody from the adult services at the IEP meeting for our kids that are ready to transition out to make it easy. And it made me crazy when I came back up to Maryland and as an attorney and where, where’s, you know, where’s the DORS persons where, you know, and they’re like, oh, they’re not here.. And they just, they, oh, we gave the parents the forums. I’m like, that’s not what you’re supposed to do.
Lisa Shaw: (00:17:30): Yeah, exactly. And that’s where I always tell my clients that, you know, there’s that phenomena of falling off the cliff of when special education services stop. And then the families feel like they’re just falling off the cliff because they’ve aged out and they don’t have any other services and then the child just sits at home and that’s where I say to my families, you can avoid that phenomena, but you have to create a large runway of getting your child prepared. And that is why it’s so important to start working at the age of 12 to 14 with your IEP team to get prepared for that transition to adulthood, to avoid that phenomena. Otherwise, you know, the longer that runway, the more successful they can be as adults.
Frances Shefter: (00:18:36): it doesn’t have to be written in stone. You know, you can be on one runway and swerve or pivot however you want to call it to another. But just like knowing that end goal and I’m assuming you help your clients come up with what’s a realistic end goal?
Lisa Shaw: (00:18:52): Yes. So what I have to do is that when the parents reach out to me and they pretty much reach out to me asking me, please review my child’s IEP. You know, we’re struggling, we’re worried they’re gonna be graduating next year or two years. What we don’t feel we have any good direction. And the first thing before I even look at their IEP, I always ask them, what’s the end game? What are you, what should the 3-5 years out viewpoint looks like? What capabilities, what experiences and opportunities do you want your child to have? And I help them to find that to find that vision statement. And we use that as I said earlier as an anchor for me, then to go into that IEP and look at it and get prepared for an IEP meeting where we can present to them. This is our vision for our child and these are the areas maybe we need to start collaborating and tweaking for goals and everything to make and maybe even do additional assessments. Folks don’t even understand that there is, you know, transition assessments and there’s the standard IEP annual three year annual assessments and they are different assessments and, we need to be asking for those transition assessments. That parents don’t need know, to ask and unfortunately schools don’t offer.
Frances Shefter: (00:20:35): Yeah. The standard stuff. I mean, I can’t tell you how many IEP si saw will research for your college. That’s what every senior that wants to go to college does. Like, how is that individualized?.
Lisa Shaw: (00:20:52): Exactly. And so, well, after,, we go through that, I, I pretty much helped the family create a transition plan that we then collaborate with the IEP team to make sure everyone knows who’s accountable for which components of that transition plan, to make sure that the child continuously makes progress towards their end goals after high school.
Frances Shefter: (00:21:20): Yeah, and I, I mean, I’m thinking back to my teachers days and, you know, when I was in the classroom, regular ed and special ed and I’m like, yeah, I would have liked when, if parents came in and said this is what we want to focus on. This is the goal because I mean, when I taught decades ago, it was handwriting IEPs, let’s put it that way. And, you know, I was having eight IEP meetings all in one day and having to write eight IEPs, which I did the best I could. But I’ll tell you now, teachers don’t learn how to write IEPs. It’s never really taught. And so I’m doing the best I can if I have a parent that comes in and it’s like, ok, so this is what I want. This is what I see. I love it because it’s, now we’re working together and we’re focused on the child.
Lisa Shaw: (00:22:9): Exactly. And that’s what I would. That’s why I always say that that’s why we fall into that cookie cutter situation because it is, the teachers are, their workload is enormous unimaginable. So it’s easy to fall into the cookie cutter situation. But then on top of that, if they don’t have a clear vision of where they need to get their, that this child, then, yeah, they fall back to the state standards, potentially a, from an academic perspective instead of individualizing it. And so, yeah, I totally agree with you on that philosophy. Yeah.
Frances Shefter: (00:22:52): And they have the core standards there. So what is core standard? Does this, does this goal meet? And then you can have a word, a bank and I actually had a teacher one time do the bank and not, you know, pull up bank goal and not fill in the student’s name and the numbers and stuff. And I’m like, I’m ok with using a bank, but then you need to individualize it for this child.
And it’s one of the questions I love to ask teacher, and, but not that I like to put teachers on the spot. But I always say why is this goal important? Where did you get this goal? And that goes back to the present levels and making sure that the present levels are written the whole point of the present levels is this is where the child is function. This is where the child is, what they can do and their weaknesses. And so what do we need to do to help them be more successful?
Lisa Shaw: (00:23:52): You got it. And that comes out of the assessments that we do too to understand those present levels.
Frances Shefter: (00:23:59): And knowing what assessments.Yeah. And then that’s a whole other thing.
Lisa Shaw: (00:24:07): And I know the system works because I’ve seen so many success stories and getting back to my own son’s success stories m of where the IEP team members and the professionals had the destiny of my son’s future now that he’s 20. And I’ve used this approach. I’m happy to say that he is in the process of transitioning into living independently in his own condo.
Frances Shefter: (00:24:39): That’s awesome.
Lisa Shaw: (00:24:42): He drives. He works part time in a competitive, integrated work environment when he gets done with graduates or exits out of special education. This coming spring, He will be transitioning to a full time job in that same spot and he is very active in the community. He participates in the community playhouse, providing all the technical support behind the scenes. And he’s on a bowling league. So he had a very productive life where he feels like he has a purpose and he belongs and he has value. It’s taken us a long time to get to that, but we had that vision and we had used that as our road map to continuously refine that IEP and transition plan to individualize it for his own purpose. And that’s how the other families I work with, how we change that trajectory of what their future is going to look like.
Frances Shefter: (00:25:53): I’m dying to know. Did you go back to that first IEP team and say, like, look at my son now.
Lisa Shaw: (00:26:00): When he graduated 12th grade, he was able to walk across the stage with his class even though we didn’t take the diploma yet until he exits. And so we, God love my son. He has such a big heart. So he doesn’t see all the struggles that we’ve had with relationships with some of the school members. He just loves everyone. And so he wanted to invite some of those folks to his graduation from elementary because at age 10, he was going from elementary school to junior high. And so I said to my husband by gosh, we’re going to invite them for everything off. So some of them came and they’re like, they even admitted I would have never dreamt Lisa that Alex would have been at this point at all. I mean, they all had that same sentiment. But the other sentiment that they did have, they said, but you know what? He had a mama bear that had a lot of fire within her. And we’re not surprised that he made this progress because we knew you believed in him and I have always believed in him and I’ll never not believe in him. So that’s kind of interesting the two sentiments that they all kind of set at graduation day.
Frances Shefter: (00:27:27): Which to me is also kind of sad that they said that they had you to fight for him. I’m like, what the teachers are supposed to be doing and I mean, I’m not knocking, teachers don’t, you know, and, and I know it’s hard enough and you can’t necessarily go up against your principal at a central office, but it’s just, the system is broken. There should not be a reason A to pinhole a child at that young of an age or even younger than I have. Some people do. And B to not be able to truly talk about what the needs of this child is and where we can get, you know, let’s set the goal up here in, in two years if we need to bring it down a little. Ok. But don’t start here and then see if we, you know.
Lisa Shaw: (00:28:13): Exactly. But you know what you have to have somewhat of a reach goal, not a, you know, a goal that is totally out of range.
Frances Shefter: (00:28:25): You’re not talking about Harvard Law School.
Lisa Shaw: (00:28:28): But you’d be so surprised that the students, how they will rise to the occasion if they have the right support and services. If you give them that push, because my son is a perfect example that he’d be OK with status quo. But if we keep raise the bar incrementally, um and making sure he’s successful as we’re raising the bar, he will rise always to the occasion and that’s why we are where we are. And you know, I always also tell parents that they are the only consistent cheerleader advocate, dreamer on your child’s team because from year to year the teachers change, administrators change. And so that’s why you have to have that passion within you to believe in your child and to dream for your child. Before it comes to flourish because the teachers do not go along the whole journey with you.
Frances Shefter: (00:29:38): Right. And it’s, you know, I hate the special education, blah, blah, blah. And somebody said, and I’m forgetting who. so I apologize if you’re watching the show, but it’s, it’s yeah, special education because your child is special because every child is special. You know, it’s, I hate that it’s like such a negative still like I know, when I was younger it was the special ed, you know, like you didn’t do anything but now what’s wrong with it? So, what I’m on the spectrum and, yeah, I have ADHD so I can do this better than that because my brain does that, you know? And that’s the thing.
Lisa Shaw: (00:30:16): Because they, they pigeonholed our kids into a stigma, a stigma and everything. Which, I don’t agree with and that’s where we could do a totally different segment about, you know, employment, pigeonhole, you know, when they do special education provides employment opportunities and it’s cleaning cafeteria tables and I have a whole slew of additional different employment opportunities that can be done at a school that’s not just cleaning tables or emptying trash such as working in the tech department working in the front office, administrative duties, things like that. But you have to come to the table and think outside the box and also have that vision that my child is going to have a job beyond just the standard quo maybe cleaning and taking trash out.
Frances Shefter: (00:31:24): Don’t take no, you know, I have one of my videos. I called it the Sheftawaybecuase of my father, of, you know, yes, you’re saying no. Now because you don’t have the capability. Give me the next person who does have the capability and keep going up the ladder until you get what you want and what your child needs. Because, you know, like, and, and I said it before, like, when you bring an attorney, what the best part about bringing an attorney versus an advocate is that somebody from central office comes. Yeah. And that’s the difference because central office I’ve had, I love my central office people. They come and they’re like, oh, no, no, no. Wait, let’s try this. And they’re, they’re more receptive to our suggestions and they’re more, they’re looking outside the box and looking at whole picture because teachers, you can’t like, teachers can’t know everything that’s out there. And that’s why central office is there is to help give you what else is out there and to open those doors.
Lisa Shaw: (00:32:28): That’s where part of individualization of our child’s um education programming is truly thinking outside the box. That’s when it’s a very powerful individualized IEP and transition plan when you think outside that box. And once again, the system sometimes just gets into a rut and they’re just, you know, it’s just widgets, let’s, let’s just process through all these IEP meetings and let’s just, it’s just a thing to do check checklist as I call it sometimes. And that’s where us parents have to have the courage to have that voice of saying no, stop. Think outside the box. I’m going to challenge the status quo to be able to really make it a meaningful educational program.
Frances Shefter: (00:33:26): Right. And earlier is better. That’s what I always say.
Lisa Shaw: (00:33:29): Absolutely. You cannot start too early.
Frances Shefter: (00:33:33): I have people say, like, when should I bring an advocate or an attorney in? I’m like, if you’re thinking about it now, if that thought came in your head now make the call now, you know, because that’s the thing. If you wait two years. Ok. Fine. Yes, we can help in two years, but that’s two years of your child’s life that is totally different.
Lisa Shaw: (00:33:53): Exactly.
Frances Shefter: (00:33:55): It’s just not, and I’m not knocking parents or saying anybody does it wrong. We all parent differently but it’s at least educate yourself and do it and just be there for your child as the parent as we all are in our ways, you know, but it’s just support them and, you know, be their cheerleader, be their biggest cheerleader.
Lisa Shaw: (00:34:13): And that’s where, you know, I always say I’d rather have parents be proactive than reactive. And unfortunately we get called in as attorneys and advocates because it’s a reactive situation and it can be much harder and challenging to turn the trajectory versus if you’re proactive and the parents reach out to folks like you or I of understanding what are the rights and how to navigate the process, it’s gonna be probably easier too. And make sure that there doesn’t have to be such a big correction potentially on the path if you’re more proactive.
Frances Shefter: (00:34:59): And what I say is like, we can come in there when we’re all on the same page and working together. If you wait until you’re on different pages, schools dig it in. I’m not listen to that attorney or advocate. I’m the teacher. I, you know, I’m the school and I don’t say teacher, I’m the school and we know what we’re doing and then you’re here and then you got to fight because they’re digging in. They’re not. And, and that’s human nature, you know, like is that I’m right. You’re wrong when you get to adversaries come up that, you know, and it’s that negotiation kind of goes away.
Lisa Shaw: (00:35:33): And who loses unfortunately the child because they are losing valuable time because the time that they’re in school, it’s, it’s a small window and, you know, I, I could go on on an totally never podcast with you in regards to parents cannot feel or have the philosophy that it’s solely the school’s responsibility to prepare their child for life after high school. That it has to be something that’s worked on in all environments, at home, in the community and at school. So that’s another reason why the parents really need to be actively involved in getting that their child prepared for life after high school. And not just think I’m sending them to school and magically the school is going to get prepared because that’s not gonna happen.
Frances Shefter: (00:36:33): They can’t do all of it, you know. There’s only so much, but that’s why, that’s part of the reason I started the show is to be like, look, here’s people that you can call out to, to help you if you need help with this or you need help with that. You know, you, you don’t have to do it all alone. That’s, you know, my tagline, you do not need to do it all alone.
Lisa Shaw: (00:36:58): And that’s, that’s the uniqueness I bring to my clients because I have that lived experience. I understand it. It’s hard to even see the forest because we as parents are deep into, inside the woods and can’t see too far from day to day. Sometimes we’re trying to just survive hour to hour. Lisa, the next 3 to 5 years of my for my child. How would I even have that vision?
Frances Shefter: (00:37:25): I’ll be honest, I can’t even find homework time. A lot of times, you know, my kids are elementary school.
Lisa Shaw: (00:37:32): That’s where proactively reaching out to specialists like myself and you to help you think through that vision, will be a, a good team member to add to your team to help you through that process for you not to get more pressure on you thinking the weight of the world on your shoulders. And the other challenge that parents do have because they are inside the forest and they can’t see the, the, every, the whole view is that the, the parents get stuck of not being able to dream big for their child, but they only see their, their deficiencies of their child today and they don’t see what capabilities that maybe they should have, be able to do or could do. And so that’s where proactively talking to someone like myself can help the parents talk through, you know, what these are all the options that’s out there. They don’t have to just the, the living independently doesn’t mean that you have to go to a group or they live at home. There’s other things in between that spectrum to be able to talk through that and look at, you know, there’s so many things and options out there. Don’t settle for the status quo.
Frances Shefter: (00:39:02): Yeah, I love that. And you have, I think if I’m remembering correctly, you have a course about dreaming big or something.
Lisa Shaw: (00:39:9): Yes, I do. I have a on demand course where families can actually go through the course and it’s from the beginning of dreaming big creating that vision of what their child’s future is gonna look like. And then taking them step by step by step, a comprehensive overview of how to create those post-secondary goals and what transition assessments that they should be requesting and how then to individualize the IEP and then if someone really wants even more customized service that then I layer on top of that me working through all of that with them and even providing opportunities for me to come to IEP meetings and help facilitate these discussions. Just for the families really know that they have that support that they need.
Frances Shefter: (00:40:10): Yeah. No. And that’s great that there’s the different levels of, you know, and that’s why that’s th this show and my YouTube channel and stuff. It’s like, OK, don’t need us yet, you know, go try and do it, you can do it. I say all the time, I wish I didn’t have a job. Because it would mean the schools are educating our children the way they need to and the school system has gotten better and, and are doing it right is never going to happen. Unfortunately. It’s gotten a lot better.
So where can people find about your show? Like, where are you? Sorry about your course? Like how can they sign up for it?
Lisa Shaw: (00:40:48): Yes. So they can actually go on the web permission www.dreambig.com or my business www.mosiachaven.com. I’m also on Facebook and Instagram under Mosaic Haven.
Frances Shefter: (00:41:06): Great. Thank you. And all of those links are going to be in the show notes when you post. Thank you so much, Lisa. This has been amazing. I love transitions. Yeah, and helping the families. Thank you so much.
Lisa Shaw: (00:41:19): You’re welcome. Bye everyone.
VOICEOVER: (00:41:21): You’ve been listening to Stress-Free IEP® with your host, Frances Shefter. Remember you do not need to do it all alone. You can reach Frances through www.shefterlaw.com where prior episodes are also posted. Thank you for your positive reviews, comments and sharing the show with others through YouTube, LinkedIn Apple podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher, and more.
Categories