In this episode of Stress-Free IEPTM, Frances Shefter speaks with Pia Seltmann, MS, OTR/L, a German occupational therapist with a passion for working with autistic children and children with sensory processing needs. She has been living and working in the field for over a decade in Washington DC and the greater Metropolitan area.
Pia is the Founder & Director of TAR – Education In Motion. TAR (Therapeutic Autism Resources) is an educational platform that educates parents of children with autism about sensory regulations, ADL, fine motor, and behavior strategies.
Frances Shefter is an Education Attorney and Advocate who is committed to helping her clients have a Stress-Free IEP experience. In each podcast, Frances interviews inspiring people to share information, educate you, empower you and help you get the knowledge you need.
VOICEOVER ( 00:00:00): Welcome to Stress-Free IEPTM. You do not need to do it all alone with your host Frances Shefter, Principal of Shefter Law, she streams a show live on Facebook on Tuesdays at noon Eastern, get more details and catch prior episodes at www.ShefterLaw.com. The Stress-Free IEPTM video podcast is also posted on YouTube and LinkedIn and you can listen to episodes through Apple podcasts, Spotify, Google podcasts, Stitcher and more. Now, here’s the host of Stress-Free IEPTM Frances Shefter.
FRANCES ( 00:00:44): Hello listeners, we are so happy to have you here with us today on our special recording um that we will be sharing and if you have comments, because this is not this is not our live, you can always put comments underneath and then when we post it and then we can always answer them later. So today our special guest is Pia with TAR – Education In Motion and because she can explain it better, Pia, please introduce yourself and explain what you do and why.
PIA ( 00:01:14): Yeah. Hi Frances. So thank you very much for having me on the air. It’s been a pleasure. So by trade I’m an occupational therapist and I work with autistic children. That’s my specialty. Also sensory integration and TAR provides parent education. We provide occupational therapy services in the home and I feel like that’s very important because parents need to know how to support their children. So I’m focusing a lot on parent education and on the education about autism.
FRANCES ( 00:01:45): Great what does T. A. R. Stands for?
PIA ( 00:01:47): It stands for therapeutic autism resources.
FRANCES ( 00:01:51): And I love that you work with the parents because a lot of times even when we have a really good IEP, the parents aren’t quite sure how to integrate it at home. We all know how important it is to have consistency throughout. Especially for our children on the spectrum.
PIA ( 00:02:07): No and I feel like sorry I didn’t want to cut you off.
FRANCES ( 00:02:09): No no, no go ahead.
PIA ( 00:02:10): Yeah. No. I feel like it’s so important because most of the time parents get to bring that child therapy or they get a lot of information, but then it lacks how to carry this over into the home and that’s actually where most problems happen. Parents need to be empowered, they need to know what’s going on and how to help their child because therapy happens once a week or maybe twice, but that’s pretty much it.
FRANCES ( 00:02:33): Right in the child’s home often with the parents. Um and so why did you find TAR – Education In Motion?
PIA ( 00:02:39): So um me as an occupational therapist that I have always noticed that parents want to support their children, they want to know. But there is a limited time in therapy. So even when I provide therapy in the clinic, um I feel like then they take the information home, but then the home setting is completely different. Like when I for example, during Covid, I got better insight into the house because of telehealth. So I noticed so many things that I didn’t know, even parents reported we have to have that, but I didn’t really know what it looked like, what the limitations were. So, and based out of that, I decided I want to provide more education in the home because I see what actually the barriers are, what parents have available and how we can actually work with the resources that they have at home. If it’s a swing, if it’s like sitting at the table, because every child can sit at the table. But what does that mean? Think of the feet, like there’s so much that you have to pay attention to which parents can’t always explain, but it’s important. So for me, that’s where I started looking at, okay, how can we support families directly in their own house? How can we develop strategies, sensory strategies and so forth to help the child and the parents actually in their house?
FRANCES ( 00:03:57): That is awesome. I love it because, you know, as you’re saying all this, I’m thinking about, I’m like, yeah, when you go to an occupational therapist, they have all these fun toys and things to do the therapy with. Um, and most homes, I would assume do not have it. Uh, and so I’m assuming when you go into the home, you help parents figure out with what they do have, how they can adapt it to do the different therapy things.
PIA ( 00:04:23): So sometimes I’m actually surprised that parents actually already have at home, like they’re involved in so many Facebook groups, they’re involved in communities. So parents get ideas. But then I feel like they don’t always know how to use the equipment that they buy or they have things at home where they don’t really know what to do with them. So, and my job is to actually see what they have and you can make a therapy session out of basically nothing. You just have to know what you’re looking for. If you have a great toy and you want to work on fine motor skills or sensory processing skills, you can use anything. You just have to know, how to use it. And so my job is actually to figure out what they already have and then use it specifically for the, based on the need of their child. And it’s sometimes easier, sometimes more tricky. But every parent has something in the house that’s benefiting their child.
FRANCES ( 00:05:17): And I love that because you’re not going in and saying, oh you need to buy these items, you’re going in and saying, hey, you’ve got this over here and that over here and this is how we can make it work and that, you know that you say the Facebook groups because you know, parents were always involved in Facebook groups and I know we always get recommendations because who do we go through? We go to other parents to ask for support and somebody will say, oh I have this great thing that works great for my child. And so we go out and buy it and then now what do I do with it?
PIA ( 00:05:47): correct
FRANCES ( 00:05:48): No,
PIA ( 00:05:49): it’s really like that. It’s like there’s so much on the market you can buy a million swings, but I feel like not every swing is correct for a child. There are kids that avoid swings. There are kids that love swings, but every parent is like I need a swing and then what
FRANCES ( 00:06:04): Right? Or the stretchy pod things which I was going to get one for my daughter, but my pediatrician recommended the one that goes over the mattress at night to snuggle her in. Um, and that’s been really working really well, it’s like her safe place.
PIA ( 00:06:21): You can buy so many equipments. Also like around Christmas time everybody posted like you can use this, this and that. And I have noticed in my own Facebook group that parents want strategies, but to be honest, you need to understand your child first to another, see if it’s a seeker or is an avoider, and based on that you pick strategies, it’s not just random strategies are working. So, and I think parents need to understand the difference but also what can you pick based on your need of a child.
FRANCES ( 00:06:50): That is so true because you know, we ask other parents, but no child’s profile is the same, they’re very, very different. And the strategies you need to use are different. Um, so you mentioned you have, do you have your own Facebook page?
PIA ( 00:07:04): I have my own Facebook page.
FRANCES ( 00:07:07): Do you want to share it or is it a private group? Only for clients?
PIA ( 00:07:11): It’s a private group, but everybody can share. Everybody can join, um, it’s a sensory and autism support group. So I’m happy to, I don’t know if you can put the link somewhere later. I don’t know how you would like
FRANCES ( 00:07:23): Yeah, we’ll put a link, and on my website.
PIA ( 00:07:24): Perfect, correct. So my group is not big, but my, my mission for this is that I’m supporting parent families sensory strategies. We’re also giving them ideas how to support each other within the sensory community because all those bigger Facebook groups, parents ask questions and I feel like there’s little guidance and how you actually use sensory strategies. It’s really just ideas and that’s it. So me as an occupational therapist actually goes in and like, okay, you have a question for that can help you with this. What’s your, what is your need? Like how can we figure this out? It’s basically like a little OT session within a smaller background setting.
FRANCES ( 00:08:07): Yeah, that’s great because it’s true. Like other parents are, you know, well meaning. As an attorney, there’s plenty of times I’m in parent groups that aren’t attorney parent groups and some of the advice that people give is not quite legally what it should be. Um, and then I play that tread lightly because I don’t want to offend somebody. But if they’re not giving good legal advice I might you know hey you might want to check this out.
PIA ( 00:08:35): And and I think that’s all about I’m like I can’t give like a full session but I can give like little ideas. You look at this, look at that. What does your child present like and kind of find out if it’s more seeker or an avoider because I feel like parent education is so important if you don’t understand your child and I don’t see where the triggers are. It’s really difficult.
FRANCES ( 00:08:59): That’s why we’re so excited to have you on the show because the whole reason for Stress-Free IEP™ is to educate our parents because there’s so much out there and so many resources within occupational therapy and then just other resources that are out there that parents don’t know about until somebody tells them. And it’s you know the old saying you don’t know what you don’t know.
PIA ( 00:9:19): Correct. So and then I can also even add like I always say you have seen one child with autism and you have seen one child with autism and that goes back to many recommendations are not really valuing your child.
FRANCES ( 00:9:35): That’s o true and that’s I think that’s why they changed the terminology now. So it’s you know the spectrum. It’s not high or low functioning. It’s a spectrum because there’s just different areas that they do. And I know there’s a way, I think there was a chart out there or something that had like the different um areas of where the child is and they we all present differently
PIA ( 00:9:59): correct. And I think parents still want to know as my child level 1, 2 or 3, it’s like I feel like it doesn’t really matter as much. You just need to know how you help your child if it’s a 1 or a 3, doesn’t say much about treatment or anything.
FRANCES ( 00:10:13): Exactly. And then and that’s the same on the IEP. Like it doesn’t matter if you’re high functioning and low functioning, like you don’t need that label. You’re on the spectrum. Let’s look at the goals and objectives and make sure that the placement matches the goals and objectives and where it can be implemented. Yeah, I mean I have some kids on the spectrum that are in total, you know gen ed classes um with maybe one resource room and then I do the whole area, I have some that are in private schools and nonpublic because that’s what was best for them. There’s no way of saying, well if my kid does abc what would you recommend more than abc because it’s the whole child, academic, intellectual, physical, all the things and then overstimulation.
PIA ( 00:11:03): Right? Yeah. And I feel like also when I talk to parents about the school setting, like it has to be adjusted to each child, it’s not just because it’s a general or it’s an autism classroom. Like each child has to have different accommodations. And when there’s an aide sitting next to the child it’s like really individualized. And I feel like this is so important to have a child grow and thrive.
FRANCES ( 00:11:27): That’s so true because it’s there are often times that I see these stock objectives and goals because that’s what they’re used to doing. And I’m like that doesn’t match what your assessment just said. Can we make that work right? And that I find parents have a hard time. They don’t know how to take an assessment. Like an OT Evaluation assess that and make sure the information is correct on the IEP.
PIA ( 00:11:53): Right? No, I totally agree. And I feel like also like parents they get so much information at an IEP meeting. Like if it’s speech therapy if’s it’s OT, if it’s educational goals and where their child stand and then they just hear. For example, I had a mom like she was always told her son is doing great and then she went to the IEP meeting and she left it and was like oh my god my child is doing so poorly. So because all the goals were like not on target and she was so overwhelmed. So I feel like also when you leave an IEP meeting there’s so many information which has to be either better explained to parents or maybe not put in so many like the information is too many, too much for parents. They are so overwhelmed and I feel like that’s where we as professionals have to help and break it down for them because otherwise they’re just like my kid’s, it’s not on target and they are really also, sometimes very depressed about that.
FRANCES ( 00:12:50): Right? And there’s the what I know the meme has been posted like if somebody does, it’s not a real IEP meeting until somebody cries. And that shouldn’t be, you know like I have parents come to me all the time. I might cry and it’s ok. I mean I’ve cried at my child’s IEP meeting, that’s normal. But as long as it’s a cry of relief or it’s upset, but we find the solution to whatever,
PIA ( 00:13:16): you know?
FRANCES ( 00:13:18): yeah,
PIA ( 00:13:19): And most of the time that when parents come to me in session, they’re just letting go and explaining and complaining also about what didn’t go well. They’re still happy with the school, but just they’re so overwhelmed and they’re looking for answers and that’s I think that’s where we both have come in to help parents to understand me from patients, their therapy standpoint, but and you from your professions or I feel like we’re breaking things down to make it easier for parents to understand and actually feel empowered because if they don’t know, they don’t know, then they can’t help their child and feel helpless
FRANCES ( 00:13:54): right? And then you know in IEP meetings there’s so many times that the school schedules them for 45 minutes and at the end of you know so they rush through everything at the end of the 45 minutes like we have another meeting we have to stop. Like okay but we’re not done. So when would you like to come back? You know and it’s I hate when they do that because they know it’s going to go over 45 minutes. We’re you know reviewing three people’s evaluations on this child. Like it’s not gonna be done in 45 minutes. Um but and that’s the thing parents don’t know that they can stop it. They can slow it down. They can say wait, explain that to me or wait, does that objective match the evaluation? Because the occupational therapist that I work at home is doing something different and that should be reflected on the IEP. We need to get a you know matching.
PIA ( 00:14:48): right? And I feel like also many parents actually don’t know the difference between school OT and outpatient OT. So they often think it’s the same but it’s not and then they’re like but why is that OT in school not working on sensory processing skills? Why is that OT not taking my childhood to gym, why are they just sitting at the table. So also breaking down explaining to parents what the difference is what the difference in goals is. So I think there’s also often a mismatch and a misunderstanding,
FRANCES ( 00:15:17): Right. Because I’ve had parents say, well if they qualified for OT outside, why don’t they qualify it in school, correct? There’s not an educational impact.
PIA ( 00:15:25): Right? And I think that’s often misunderstood and that’s where I always come in. I’m like, okay, that’s the difference between those two settings. It’s the same profession, but it’s, it’s very different and parents sometimes have a really hard time understanding them.
FRANCES ( 00:15:40): And I’m assuming if the parents want, you will talk to the school Occupational Therapist so that you guys because yes, you work on different things, but strategies and some things should stay the same.
PIA ( 00:15:50): Yes. So when the parents, of course, they just have to fill out a release of information form and then I get in touch with the school because I feel like even though we work on different goals, it’s still the same child. So it’s a team approach. So strategy, sometimes strategies that I use are very beneficial for school and vice versa. I see the child in a different setting than the school. Sometimes we see the same thing and sometimes we see different things, but we can still benefit from each other’s observations. So I’m always happy when the school contacts me or when I get the opportunity to talk to them because I feel like you can help so much more when everybody’s on the same page.
FRANCES ( 00:16:27): Yeah, definitely. And it’s it’s so important, you know for the consistency for everything and you know most of the times I’ve had schools are perfectly willing to talk to outside professionals that it’s helpful. Sometimes they won’t and then that gets a little bit harder. But it’s you know the parents can advocate for it.
PIA ( 00:16:46): And I always push for that because ultimately the parents have the last word but they don’t always know that they can use that. Like they can stop like you said earlier, they can advocate, they can call in a meeting, they can say no I’m not gonna sign this so they have a lot of rights which are not always aware of.
FRANCES ( 00:17:05): Right. And you know it’s interesting you said that hey you don’t have to sign it. You can sign part of an IEP. You can agree with part of it and not the other part. And if the occupational therapist that they’re working with at the school refuses to talk to an outside therapist you might be able to go to the principal or go to the next level up to say hey what can we do to make this work? Not saying to put more work on the occupational therapist at school because I get it a lot of them have two or three schools but there’s gotta be a way that works for everybody that we are all on the same page.
PIA ( 00:17:39): Right. And I feel like if there’s communication I’m happy to you know, figure out how to make it easier for the school because I know they’re swamped like they have like you just said 2-3 schools their caseload is for all the IEP meeting sessions, notes and whatever. But I feel like if there is more communication between schools and outpatient or home setting, I feel like that would benefit not just the kids but also the therapist because it makes it easier to work with any child and you have more information on any kid.
FRANCES ( 00:18:09): Right. And you know it’s interesting you say that like the different strategies. I know a lot of times children, I mean all children will behave one way in school, another way at a home and a third way out in the community. And it’s so important to see all of that so that you’re working on everything together.
PIA ( 00:18:30): And school is mostly the difficult part because there are so many more kids, kids are unpredictable and children on the spectrum, they thrive in routines when it’s a little bit more calm. But school, there is so much going on. Transitioning things is harder. There are more schools, you bump into kids. Like even if it’s a small classroom there’s so many more variability where a child doesn’t understand the expectation, which is when they come to a one-on-one setting or when they’re at home. I have a lot of parents who are like oh but they’re fine at home, why do the kids have so many problems in school? Then they blame the school. School has a harder time trusting or putting in accommodations because there’s just so many more kids. So I think parents need to understand that. But also the school needs to understand that there’s like a mismatch and school is always the hard part,
FRANCES ( 00:19:20): Right? No, definitely. Even if there’s a one on dedicated aid or one -on-one critical staffing, whatever they call them these days, um, it’s not the same because yes, you have one on one with your child, but there’s still, you know, eight other people in your class, 800 other people in this school. And then it’s just, you know, so much going on and you can, like you said, you know, you can only manipulate it so much.
PIA ( 00:19:45): Correct. And I feel like in a one on one session, I can tease things out and also see things just by working with that one child which then those strategies can be implemented in the school and school can give me feedback. Okay, that worked and that didn’t work. And then we kind of troubleshoot again, really try and error most of the time.
FRANCES ( 00:20:05): That’s so true and that’s why it’s all individualized, right?
PIA ( 00:20:08): Correct, that’s where it goes back to being individualized.
FRANCES ( 00:20:10): And even, you know, evaluations come out different because the child is different. It might be an off day, it might be a good day. They might be in a green room that sets them off or yellow room that they’re happy in and you don’t know, you know, you’re in there and working with the child.
PIA ( 00:20:26): Correct. And most of the time assessments always they’re always different than a treatment session because the new room, like you said, that new environment, they have never been anywhere close to that room. So the mom is nervous or maybe someone else came, who doesn’t know the routine. Maybe the kids are hungry. So I feel like there’s so many things that you have to consider just like in school as well. So it’s not, each day is different just like with us when you’re hungry you’re not doing well.
FRANCES ( 00:20:54): Right? Exactly, hangry I think they call it. Like I know with my, with myself, like if I haven’t eaten, I start, you know lagging and I can’t concentrate as much and then I realized, oh it’s 3:00, I haven’t had lunch yet, that may have something to do with it. And sometimes our our kids on the spectrum can verbalize that and sometimes they can’t.
PIA ( 00:21:18): But then you see the behaviors because they can’t verbalize that they’re hungry or thirsty or need something. Then maybe kids don’t have a communication device where they can articulate themselves, what they need. The parents forgot it. Maybe parents haven’t been into the idea that one would be helpful and then you see communication through a meltdown or some negative behavior, but that’s the way of how children we expect them to communicate when they can’t. Like you see some negative behavior was not always desired, but that’s what we need to understand.
FRANCES ( 00:21:50): And it’s not even only kids on the spectrum. I mean it’s all kids that don’t have the voice or the vocabulary to be able to say, hey, this is what’s going on and they might not even know what’s going on, they might not even realize.
PIA ( 00:22:08): right? And that makes it so much harder because something is going on and then you have to figure out, oh what is it? Like there’s no communication but you as a parent as the adult, you know, your job is to figure this out even though it’s not always easy but the more you watch, the better you get an understanding and that also goes back to better understanding the child, and empowering adults so they can, they feel confident to actually look for triggers.
FRANCES ( 00:22:35): Right. Exactly. And meltdowns will drop, you know, decrease because once you know what the triggers are and you can avoid the triggers or prepare for the triggers whatever the case may be. Um, then you’re setting the stage so that your child can be more successful.,
PIA ( 00:22:55): Right. I had actually email this morning and mom was like we have always some food around. So I have noticed when she’s holding some food in the hand, she doesn’t even have to eat it. She is in a much better situation. So mom was always with some little crackers or like a bar when she leaves the house and she’s like oh great, I haven’t understood all my triggers of my child but that I know, so without food I’m not leaving the house.
FRANCES ( 00:23:21): And that’s awesome. And that might be something like the school says you can’t do it. But yes you can do it. If this is what your child needs to engage in the curriculum and learn, 100% the school has to do it. They need to figure it out.
PIA ( 00:23:35): Right, and that’s I think that’s yeah parents need to understand that they have the option to kind of ask for this and to have it put in their IEP.
FRANCES ( 00:23:45): Right. And they have the power, if the school says no, you know to ask for the prior written notice and say okay can you please, you know put in the PWN that you’re refusing xyz because of abc. You know once you tell the schools you want it in writing, why they’re refusing. I’ve seen schools a lot of time back off and like oh no no no we can we can figure out how to make it work.
PIA ( 00:24:10): But parents don’t know they’re like they’re backing off and then I feel like they’re so frustrated with the schools. And also like I work with a lot of spanish families that you have like the language barrier. So there’s so many components where people or families, parents don’t feel confident.
FRANCES ( 00:24:29): Right, definitely. Um And so that you specifically work with autistic children. Why is it so important for you working with autistic children?
PIA ( 00:24:38): Because they don’t have a voice. I feel like because they are always, I mean they have a voice but I feel like they’re not understood the way those kids present themselves like this. I have so many children that come dysregulated to my session and they just can’t help themselves. So I feel like that just makes my little therapy heart bleed and I’m like I just wanna help, I wanna help them be more than regulated, have a good time. They want to enjoy, they want to please their parents, they wanna be just kids. So but when you’re dysregulated, just like when we are hungry you’re not feeling well, we’re not being our best and then something happens and we are like get so frustrated or something. So I feel like I’ve seen so many children that came dysregulated in my session and we did some just basic sensory strategies and kids just did more and participated more, seemed happier and I feel like that’s what I’m thriving for. I wanna have those children enjoy their family. The families enjoy their kids just like normal kids and do what kids are supposed to do, of course with some accommodation in certain cases. But I feel like dysregulation never gets anyone anywhere. So and just by helping, being more stable, makes a different child so that’s what I’m shooting for. And also I want the parents to be less stressed. I know not only when they’re stressed, they’re like, it makes it so much harder to work with your child. So when parents know they can help their child to be more relaxed. So I think that’s the difference between educating the parents but also supporting the child just to do what they want to do.
FRANCES ( 00:26:16): Right? I love that because, you know, I’m thinking like you probably enjoy, not enjoy, but when a dysregulated child comes in, it’s it’s more helpful because then you can help and teach the parents what their child needs because I know like, you know, we’ve all seen it often that a child, you know, has a meltdown wherever the playground, the store, whatever, the parents get embarrassed, the parents feel stressed, They don’t know what to do, which makes the situation worse. But if they don’t know, they don’t know. And so I’m sure working with you will help them with that. Do you go out in the community with things or do you just do the therapy in person?
PIA ( 00:26:56): So, um, most of the time I go to the home and do it in person. If there is a goal or if there’s a situation where the parent is like, okay, look, when we go to the library, there’s always a problem, transitioning or something, I will do that too. But it’s more, it’s case by case basis. It’s not on a … I don’t have a lot of families that request it. It’s more that they want to figure out how to help the child be more regulated at home, but we can do it
FRANCES ( 00:27:23): Great. I mean that’s awesome because it’s helpful both And so um I think we addressed this, like why should parents take advantage of coaching? Like why should they call you?
PIA ( 00:27:34): So? Because I feel like parents need to understand more like they need to know how to help their child and not just rely on other therapy services because ultimately therapy happens once or twice a week. So, and then you take your child home and then what? So there is a situation, it’s a drop in the bucket to have therapy once or twice a week. So I feel like life happens at home and happens in school. If you’re regulated in those two places, you will be always good in therapy, but it’s vice versa. If you’re good in therapy, that doesn’t mean that you’re also good at home or in school because the situation is just different. So
FRANCES ( 00:28:14): Different stimulus going on. Yeah.
PIA ( 00:28:17): So, and I feel like this is why coaching is a benefit of parents because they get to ask individualized questions in their environment. They’re not taking their child somewhere, I’m coming to them and actually working on what they need in the house, like if they want to go to the zoo with me, I go to the zoo with them.
FRANCES ( 00:28:35): So am I correct in thinking like in an OT session it’s focused on the child more and just working with the child, whereas with the parent coaching while yes, you’re focused on the child and helping the child, but you’re also focused on helping the parent know how to do the strategy,
PIA ( 00:28:54): So it’s focusing on the parent to understand their child, so it’s also guiding the parents to implement certain strategies that I would usually do, it’s basically I’m guiding them through working with their child basically. So it’s like when they see something like okay, why do you think your child is triggered by that input, what can we do, what are your strategies that didn’t work? That did not work? So there are a lot of open-ended questions. There are a lot of like asking what parents think and figuring it out together. So it’s not just okay Pia’s here, work with your child is like Pia’s here, work with mom, so mom understands your child or dad.
FRANCES ( 00:29:33): And then do you offer like is it just one session or do you do monthly sessions? Like how does that work for services?
PIA ( 00:29:40): So it depends on the parents on the family, but what I usually say is 5-8 sessions, that’s where I see an improvement, so and then I can say, okay maybe we can go to once a month or like every other month to kind of see how you implement the strategies yourself. Do you feel confident using those strategies by yourself or do you want me just to chime in via Zoom. So that’s totally individualized, but I feel like 5 to 8 sessions we need in order to kind of figure out the strategies together because ultimately for me it’s also a trial and error. You know, I need to get to know the parent, I need to get to know the child so to see what works and what doesn’t because again I have a lot of strategies, like two boxes full, but that one child might need something a little bit more tweaked, so that I need to find out during the sessions.
FRANCES ( 00:30:32): And I love that you say 5-8 sessions because you know, so many times people are like oh yeah we’ll start therapy and they don’t they don’t have the end goal, you know? And like for schools, I actually had one time that an OT tried to say, I don’t remember, you know what, honestly, I don’t remember, it was an OT or a speech person but they tried to say oh yeah we’re gonna put services in place until the middle of the year and I’m like no that doesn’t work in the educational setting because when the child reaches reaches the goals and can access the gen ed curriculum, that’s our guideline, You’re not putting that end, you know, date there, the end date is the annual IEP year, if in three months your child, you know, the child has achieved all the goals, you don’t think it’s necessary. Okay, we’ll come back to the table and meet.
PIA ( 00:31:25): Right. So I mean for me, it’s like helping it’s like supporting empowering, that’s my goal and however long that’s gonna take, we will see because each child is so individualized and also every parent is different, but it’s kind of like the guidance like what I have noticed 5-8 and then we’ll take it from there.
FRANCES ( 00:31:45): Perfect, that’s awesome. And it’s, you know, it’s so funny how aligned our businesses are because that’s the same thing I am, is educating the families and helping them at any stage of the, of the day, you know, of the process because, you know, some clients will be like, oh, we just want a strategy session to talk through what our options are. You know, and other clients are like, I am not going to a school meeting unless you’re sitting next to me, you know, and it depends on what you want and what you need, right?
PIA ( 00:32:12): And I have all the parents, they’re just, they have already a lot of strategies, that’s why parent coaching is so good. They come up with ideas and they just need to kind of adjust little things here and there, so that’s why I’m like parent education is so important because it’s about the parents and their child, not about me or the kids come into a session just to sit in the swing,
FRANCES ( 00:32:33): Right. And it’s also, you know, the parents, parents know more than they think they know. They don’t realize how much they do at home or out in the community or whatever, they don’t realize what they’re doing. Like that’s a strategy, let’s use that strategy or tell the school this is a strategy that works, you know, because they’re, you know, parents we’re just trying to get through every day and parents of special ed kids, it’s like it’s even harder.
PIA ( 00:33:01): Yeah. And I feel like parents know their child best, like they can see if they’re hungry, if they’re not about to have a meltdown, but they’re not and they do so many things already. For example, had another mom the other day in my session and she’s like, oh, but so we are not coming anymore, I’m like you got all the strategies, I really believe in you and she was like, oh yeah, I have everything written down. So I checked in with her a month later and she’s like, oh yeah, I got this. It’s really just empowering them with the strategies that she actually came up with guidance with me and then she implemented. So it was actually very nice to watch her grow and be able to support her child. I’m like yes, that’s what I’m shooting for.
FRANCES ( 00:33:43): Yeah, no, I love that because it’s, it’s important. You know, we, I say all the time that I don’t want families to need me because if families don’t need me, that means the schools are doing what the parents think is best and the child is progressing, everything is focused on the child and everything’s happy. Unfortunately that doesn’t happen that often.
PIA ( 00:34:06): Yeah, that would be the perfect world. But yeah, I don’t know, it’s just like in my situation like if I’m out of a job, then I feel like everybody did learn and implement it. So it would be great.
FRANCES ( 00:34:21): Yeah. But yeah, then we’ll just find a new occupation, right? But it’s, but it’s true. I mean like it’s it’s so hard and I, you know, I have friends and people that I’ve met that are like, oh, I wish I knew, I knew you existed earlier. And that’s the other reason for my show is like, people probably don’t realize there’s a OT coach out there that can help you the parent and not just the child and I know like Kennedy Krieger has an eight month waiting list for services. Where you’re there, you can come in and help the parents learn.
PIA ( 00:34:54): Right, like Children’s, I think they’re waitlist is over 1100 kids, like it’s insane, I don’t know how long, but you know, it’s definitely a lot of kids. Any of the institutions.
FRANCES ( 00:35:05): And probably scheduled like half hour 45 minutes therapy sessions over. You gotta go they have to prep for the next one.
PIA ( 00:35:10):. Yeah. No there’s no way to actually make it more individualized. Like you only have what you have.
FRANCES ( 00:35:16): Thank you so much for coming on the show. I think like this is like I love like now I know more about what you do and I feel that I can get your information out to more families um to help them and to help families to be less stressed.
PIA ( 00:35:33): I would appreciate it. Thank you for your help Frances. It was a pleasure being here and I always like and enjoy you know sharing and also collaborating with other professionals. That’s how it works.
FRANCES ( 00:35:43): Right? Working all together. Thank you.
PIA ( 00:35:46): Thank you.
VOICEOVER ( 00:35:47): You’ve been listening to Stress-Free IEPTM. With your host Frances Shefter. Remember you do not need to do it all alone. You can reach Frances through ShefterLaw.com where prior episodes are also posted. Thank you for your positive reviews, comments and sharing the show with others through YouTube, LinkedIn, Apple Podcast, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher and more.
Stress Free IEP™ with Frances Shefter and Pia Seltmann
In this episode of Stress-Free IEPTM, Frances Shefter speaks with Pia Seltmann, MS, OTR/L, a German occupational therapist with a passion for working with autistic children and children with sensory processing needs. She has been living and working in the field for over a decade in Washington DC and the greater Metropolitan area.
Pia is the Founder & Director of TAR – Education In Motion. TAR (Therapeutic Autism Resources) is an educational platform that educates parents of children with autism about sensory regulations, ADL, fine motor, and behavior strategies.
Stress-Free IEPTM:
Frances Shefter is an Education Attorney and Advocate who is committed to helping her clients have a Stress-Free IEP experience. In each podcast, Frances interviews inspiring people to share information, educate you, empower you and help you get the knowledge you need.
Watch more episodes of Stress-FreeTM on YouTube.
Connect and learn more from your host, Frances Shefter:
Read the full transcript:
VOICEOVER ( 00:00:00): Welcome to Stress-Free IEPTM. You do not need to do it all alone with your host Frances Shefter, Principal of Shefter Law, she streams a show live on Facebook on Tuesdays at noon Eastern, get more details and catch prior episodes at www.ShefterLaw.com. The Stress-Free IEPTM video podcast is also posted on YouTube and LinkedIn and you can listen to episodes through Apple podcasts, Spotify, Google podcasts, Stitcher and more. Now, here’s the host of Stress-Free IEPTM Frances Shefter.
FRANCES ( 00:00:44): Hello listeners, we are so happy to have you here with us today on our special recording um that we will be sharing and if you have comments, because this is not this is not our live, you can always put comments underneath and then when we post it and then we can always answer them later. So today our special guest is Pia with TAR – Education In Motion and because she can explain it better, Pia, please introduce yourself and explain what you do and why.
PIA ( 00:01:14): Yeah. Hi Frances. So thank you very much for having me on the air. It’s been a pleasure. So by trade I’m an occupational therapist and I work with autistic children. That’s my specialty. Also sensory integration and TAR provides parent education. We provide occupational therapy services in the home and I feel like that’s very important because parents need to know how to support their children. So I’m focusing a lot on parent education and on the education about autism.
FRANCES ( 00:01:45): Great what does T. A. R. Stands for?
PIA ( 00:01:47): It stands for therapeutic autism resources.
FRANCES ( 00:01:51): And I love that you work with the parents because a lot of times even when we have a really good IEP, the parents aren’t quite sure how to integrate it at home. We all know how important it is to have consistency throughout. Especially for our children on the spectrum.
PIA ( 00:02:07): No and I feel like sorry I didn’t want to cut you off.
FRANCES ( 00:02:09): No no, no go ahead.
PIA ( 00:02:10): Yeah. No. I feel like it’s so important because most of the time parents get to bring that child therapy or they get a lot of information, but then it lacks how to carry this over into the home and that’s actually where most problems happen. Parents need to be empowered, they need to know what’s going on and how to help their child because therapy happens once a week or maybe twice, but that’s pretty much it.
FRANCES ( 00:02:33): Right in the child’s home often with the parents. Um and so why did you find TAR – Education In Motion?
PIA ( 00:02:39): So um me as an occupational therapist that I have always noticed that parents want to support their children, they want to know. But there is a limited time in therapy. So even when I provide therapy in the clinic, um I feel like then they take the information home, but then the home setting is completely different. Like when I for example, during Covid, I got better insight into the house because of telehealth. So I noticed so many things that I didn’t know, even parents reported we have to have that, but I didn’t really know what it looked like, what the limitations were. So, and based out of that, I decided I want to provide more education in the home because I see what actually the barriers are, what parents have available and how we can actually work with the resources that they have at home. If it’s a swing, if it’s like sitting at the table, because every child can sit at the table. But what does that mean? Think of the feet, like there’s so much that you have to pay attention to which parents can’t always explain, but it’s important. So for me, that’s where I started looking at, okay, how can we support families directly in their own house? How can we develop strategies, sensory strategies and so forth to help the child and the parents actually in their house?
FRANCES ( 00:03:57): That is awesome. I love it because, you know, as you’re saying all this, I’m thinking about, I’m like, yeah, when you go to an occupational therapist, they have all these fun toys and things to do the therapy with. Um, and most homes, I would assume do not have it. Uh, and so I’m assuming when you go into the home, you help parents figure out with what they do have, how they can adapt it to do the different therapy things.
PIA ( 00:04:23): So sometimes I’m actually surprised that parents actually already have at home, like they’re involved in so many Facebook groups, they’re involved in communities. So parents get ideas. But then I feel like they don’t always know how to use the equipment that they buy or they have things at home where they don’t really know what to do with them. So, and my job is to actually see what they have and you can make a therapy session out of basically nothing. You just have to know what you’re looking for. If you have a great toy and you want to work on fine motor skills or sensory processing skills, you can use anything. You just have to know, how to use it. And so my job is actually to figure out what they already have and then use it specifically for the, based on the need of their child. And it’s sometimes easier, sometimes more tricky. But every parent has something in the house that’s benefiting their child.
FRANCES ( 00:05:17): And I love that because you’re not going in and saying, oh you need to buy these items, you’re going in and saying, hey, you’ve got this over here and that over here and this is how we can make it work and that, you know that you say the Facebook groups because you know, parents were always involved in Facebook groups and I know we always get recommendations because who do we go through? We go to other parents to ask for support and somebody will say, oh I have this great thing that works great for my child. And so we go out and buy it and then now what do I do with it?
PIA ( 00:05:47): correct
FRANCES ( 00:05:48): No,
PIA ( 00:05:49): it’s really like that. It’s like there’s so much on the market you can buy a million swings, but I feel like not every swing is correct for a child. There are kids that avoid swings. There are kids that love swings, but every parent is like I need a swing and then what
FRANCES ( 00:06:04): Right? Or the stretchy pod things which I was going to get one for my daughter, but my pediatrician recommended the one that goes over the mattress at night to snuggle her in. Um, and that’s been really working really well, it’s like her safe place.
PIA ( 00:06:21): You can buy so many equipments. Also like around Christmas time everybody posted like you can use this, this and that. And I have noticed in my own Facebook group that parents want strategies, but to be honest, you need to understand your child first to another, see if it’s a seeker or is an avoider, and based on that you pick strategies, it’s not just random strategies are working. So, and I think parents need to understand the difference but also what can you pick based on your need of a child.
FRANCES ( 00:06:50): That is so true because you know, we ask other parents, but no child’s profile is the same, they’re very, very different. And the strategies you need to use are different. Um, so you mentioned you have, do you have your own Facebook page?
PIA ( 00:07:04): I have my own Facebook page.
FRANCES ( 00:07:07): Do you want to share it or is it a private group? Only for clients?
PIA ( 00:07:11): It’s a private group, but everybody can share. Everybody can join, um, it’s a sensory and autism support group. So I’m happy to, I don’t know if you can put the link somewhere later. I don’t know how you would like
FRANCES ( 00:07:23): Yeah, we’ll put a link, and on my website.
PIA ( 00:07:24): Perfect, correct. So my group is not big, but my, my mission for this is that I’m supporting parent families sensory strategies. We’re also giving them ideas how to support each other within the sensory community because all those bigger Facebook groups, parents ask questions and I feel like there’s little guidance and how you actually use sensory strategies. It’s really just ideas and that’s it. So me as an occupational therapist actually goes in and like, okay, you have a question for that can help you with this. What’s your, what is your need? Like how can we figure this out? It’s basically like a little OT session within a smaller background setting.
FRANCES ( 00:08:07): Yeah, that’s great because it’s true. Like other parents are, you know, well meaning. As an attorney, there’s plenty of times I’m in parent groups that aren’t attorney parent groups and some of the advice that people give is not quite legally what it should be. Um, and then I play that tread lightly because I don’t want to offend somebody. But if they’re not giving good legal advice I might you know hey you might want to check this out.
PIA ( 00:08:35): And and I think that’s all about I’m like I can’t give like a full session but I can give like little ideas. You look at this, look at that. What does your child present like and kind of find out if it’s more seeker or an avoider because I feel like parent education is so important if you don’t understand your child and I don’t see where the triggers are. It’s really difficult.
FRANCES ( 00:08:59): That’s why we’re so excited to have you on the show because the whole reason for Stress-Free IEP™ is to educate our parents because there’s so much out there and so many resources within occupational therapy and then just other resources that are out there that parents don’t know about until somebody tells them. And it’s you know the old saying you don’t know what you don’t know.
PIA ( 00:9:19): Correct. So and then I can also even add like I always say you have seen one child with autism and you have seen one child with autism and that goes back to many recommendations are not really valuing your child.
FRANCES ( 00:9:35): That’s o true and that’s I think that’s why they changed the terminology now. So it’s you know the spectrum. It’s not high or low functioning. It’s a spectrum because there’s just different areas that they do. And I know there’s a way, I think there was a chart out there or something that had like the different um areas of where the child is and they we all present differently
PIA ( 00:9:59): correct. And I think parents still want to know as my child level 1, 2 or 3, it’s like I feel like it doesn’t really matter as much. You just need to know how you help your child if it’s a 1 or a 3, doesn’t say much about treatment or anything.
FRANCES ( 00:10:13): Exactly. And then and that’s the same on the IEP. Like it doesn’t matter if you’re high functioning and low functioning, like you don’t need that label. You’re on the spectrum. Let’s look at the goals and objectives and make sure that the placement matches the goals and objectives and where it can be implemented. Yeah, I mean I have some kids on the spectrum that are in total, you know gen ed classes um with maybe one resource room and then I do the whole area, I have some that are in private schools and nonpublic because that’s what was best for them. There’s no way of saying, well if my kid does abc what would you recommend more than abc because it’s the whole child, academic, intellectual, physical, all the things and then overstimulation.
PIA ( 00:11:03): Right? Yeah. And I feel like also when I talk to parents about the school setting, like it has to be adjusted to each child, it’s not just because it’s a general or it’s an autism classroom. Like each child has to have different accommodations. And when there’s an aide sitting next to the child it’s like really individualized. And I feel like this is so important to have a child grow and thrive.
FRANCES ( 00:11:27): That’s so true because it’s there are often times that I see these stock objectives and goals because that’s what they’re used to doing. And I’m like that doesn’t match what your assessment just said. Can we make that work right? And that I find parents have a hard time. They don’t know how to take an assessment. Like an OT Evaluation assess that and make sure the information is correct on the IEP.
PIA ( 00:11:53): Right? No, I totally agree. And I feel like also like parents they get so much information at an IEP meeting. Like if it’s speech therapy if’s it’s OT, if it’s educational goals and where their child stand and then they just hear. For example, I had a mom like she was always told her son is doing great and then she went to the IEP meeting and she left it and was like oh my god my child is doing so poorly. So because all the goals were like not on target and she was so overwhelmed. So I feel like also when you leave an IEP meeting there’s so many information which has to be either better explained to parents or maybe not put in so many like the information is too many, too much for parents. They are so overwhelmed and I feel like that’s where we as professionals have to help and break it down for them because otherwise they’re just like my kid’s, it’s not on target and they are really also, sometimes very depressed about that.
FRANCES ( 00:12:50): Right? And there’s the what I know the meme has been posted like if somebody does, it’s not a real IEP meeting until somebody cries. And that shouldn’t be, you know like I have parents come to me all the time. I might cry and it’s ok. I mean I’ve cried at my child’s IEP meeting, that’s normal. But as long as it’s a cry of relief or it’s upset, but we find the solution to whatever,
PIA ( 00:13:16): you know?
FRANCES ( 00:13:18): yeah,
PIA ( 00:13:19): And most of the time that when parents come to me in session, they’re just letting go and explaining and complaining also about what didn’t go well. They’re still happy with the school, but just they’re so overwhelmed and they’re looking for answers and that’s I think that’s where we both have come in to help parents to understand me from patients, their therapy standpoint, but and you from your professions or I feel like we’re breaking things down to make it easier for parents to understand and actually feel empowered because if they don’t know, they don’t know, then they can’t help their child and feel helpless
FRANCES ( 00:13:54): right? And then you know in IEP meetings there’s so many times that the school schedules them for 45 minutes and at the end of you know so they rush through everything at the end of the 45 minutes like we have another meeting we have to stop. Like okay but we’re not done. So when would you like to come back? You know and it’s I hate when they do that because they know it’s going to go over 45 minutes. We’re you know reviewing three people’s evaluations on this child. Like it’s not gonna be done in 45 minutes. Um but and that’s the thing parents don’t know that they can stop it. They can slow it down. They can say wait, explain that to me or wait, does that objective match the evaluation? Because the occupational therapist that I work at home is doing something different and that should be reflected on the IEP. We need to get a you know matching.
PIA ( 00:14:48): right? And I feel like also many parents actually don’t know the difference between school OT and outpatient OT. So they often think it’s the same but it’s not and then they’re like but why is that OT in school not working on sensory processing skills? Why is that OT not taking my childhood to gym, why are they just sitting at the table. So also breaking down explaining to parents what the difference is what the difference in goals is. So I think there’s also often a mismatch and a misunderstanding,
FRANCES ( 00:15:17): Right. Because I’ve had parents say, well if they qualified for OT outside, why don’t they qualify it in school, correct? There’s not an educational impact.
PIA ( 00:15:25): Right? And I think that’s often misunderstood and that’s where I always come in. I’m like, okay, that’s the difference between those two settings. It’s the same profession, but it’s, it’s very different and parents sometimes have a really hard time understanding them.
FRANCES ( 00:15:40): And I’m assuming if the parents want, you will talk to the school Occupational Therapist so that you guys because yes, you work on different things, but strategies and some things should stay the same.
PIA ( 00:15:50): Yes. So when the parents, of course, they just have to fill out a release of information form and then I get in touch with the school because I feel like even though we work on different goals, it’s still the same child. So it’s a team approach. So strategy, sometimes strategies that I use are very beneficial for school and vice versa. I see the child in a different setting than the school. Sometimes we see the same thing and sometimes we see different things, but we can still benefit from each other’s observations. So I’m always happy when the school contacts me or when I get the opportunity to talk to them because I feel like you can help so much more when everybody’s on the same page.
FRANCES ( 00:16:27): Yeah, definitely. And it’s it’s so important, you know for the consistency for everything and you know most of the times I’ve had schools are perfectly willing to talk to outside professionals that it’s helpful. Sometimes they won’t and then that gets a little bit harder. But it’s you know the parents can advocate for it.
PIA ( 00:16:46): And I always push for that because ultimately the parents have the last word but they don’t always know that they can use that. Like they can stop like you said earlier, they can advocate, they can call in a meeting, they can say no I’m not gonna sign this so they have a lot of rights which are not always aware of.
FRANCES ( 00:17:05): Right. And you know it’s interesting you said that hey you don’t have to sign it. You can sign part of an IEP. You can agree with part of it and not the other part. And if the occupational therapist that they’re working with at the school refuses to talk to an outside therapist you might be able to go to the principal or go to the next level up to say hey what can we do to make this work? Not saying to put more work on the occupational therapist at school because I get it a lot of them have two or three schools but there’s gotta be a way that works for everybody that we are all on the same page.
PIA ( 00:17:39): Right. And I feel like if there’s communication I’m happy to you know, figure out how to make it easier for the school because I know they’re swamped like they have like you just said 2-3 schools their caseload is for all the IEP meeting sessions, notes and whatever. But I feel like if there is more communication between schools and outpatient or home setting, I feel like that would benefit not just the kids but also the therapist because it makes it easier to work with any child and you have more information on any kid.
FRANCES ( 00:18:09): Right. And you know it’s interesting you say that like the different strategies. I know a lot of times children, I mean all children will behave one way in school, another way at a home and a third way out in the community. And it’s so important to see all of that so that you’re working on everything together.
PIA ( 00:18:30): And school is mostly the difficult part because there are so many more kids, kids are unpredictable and children on the spectrum, they thrive in routines when it’s a little bit more calm. But school, there is so much going on. Transitioning things is harder. There are more schools, you bump into kids. Like even if it’s a small classroom there’s so many more variability where a child doesn’t understand the expectation, which is when they come to a one-on-one setting or when they’re at home. I have a lot of parents who are like oh but they’re fine at home, why do the kids have so many problems in school? Then they blame the school. School has a harder time trusting or putting in accommodations because there’s just so many more kids. So I think parents need to understand that. But also the school needs to understand that there’s like a mismatch and school is always the hard part,
FRANCES ( 00:19:20): Right? No, definitely. Even if there’s a one on dedicated aid or one -on-one critical staffing, whatever they call them these days, um, it’s not the same because yes, you have one on one with your child, but there’s still, you know, eight other people in your class, 800 other people in this school. And then it’s just, you know, so much going on and you can, like you said, you know, you can only manipulate it so much.
PIA ( 00:19:45): Correct. And I feel like in a one on one session, I can tease things out and also see things just by working with that one child which then those strategies can be implemented in the school and school can give me feedback. Okay, that worked and that didn’t work. And then we kind of troubleshoot again, really try and error most of the time.
FRANCES ( 00:20:05): That’s so true and that’s why it’s all individualized, right?
PIA ( 00:20:08): Correct, that’s where it goes back to being individualized.
FRANCES ( 00:20:10): And even, you know, evaluations come out different because the child is different. It might be an off day, it might be a good day. They might be in a green room that sets them off or yellow room that they’re happy in and you don’t know, you know, you’re in there and working with the child.
PIA ( 00:20:26): Correct. And most of the time assessments always they’re always different than a treatment session because the new room, like you said, that new environment, they have never been anywhere close to that room. So the mom is nervous or maybe someone else came, who doesn’t know the routine. Maybe the kids are hungry. So I feel like there’s so many things that you have to consider just like in school as well. So it’s not, each day is different just like with us when you’re hungry you’re not doing well.
FRANCES ( 00:20:54): Right? Exactly, hangry I think they call it. Like I know with my, with myself, like if I haven’t eaten, I start, you know lagging and I can’t concentrate as much and then I realized, oh it’s 3:00, I haven’t had lunch yet, that may have something to do with it. And sometimes our our kids on the spectrum can verbalize that and sometimes they can’t.
PIA ( 00:21:18): But then you see the behaviors because they can’t verbalize that they’re hungry or thirsty or need something. Then maybe kids don’t have a communication device where they can articulate themselves, what they need. The parents forgot it. Maybe parents haven’t been into the idea that one would be helpful and then you see communication through a meltdown or some negative behavior, but that’s the way of how children we expect them to communicate when they can’t. Like you see some negative behavior was not always desired, but that’s what we need to understand.
FRANCES ( 00:21:50): And it’s not even only kids on the spectrum. I mean it’s all kids that don’t have the voice or the vocabulary to be able to say, hey, this is what’s going on and they might not even know what’s going on, they might not even realize.
PIA ( 00:22:08): right? And that makes it so much harder because something is going on and then you have to figure out, oh what is it? Like there’s no communication but you as a parent as the adult, you know, your job is to figure this out even though it’s not always easy but the more you watch, the better you get an understanding and that also goes back to better understanding the child, and empowering adults so they can, they feel confident to actually look for triggers.
FRANCES ( 00:22:35): Right. Exactly. And meltdowns will drop, you know, decrease because once you know what the triggers are and you can avoid the triggers or prepare for the triggers whatever the case may be. Um, then you’re setting the stage so that your child can be more successful.,
PIA ( 00:22:55): Right. I had actually email this morning and mom was like we have always some food around. So I have noticed when she’s holding some food in the hand, she doesn’t even have to eat it. She is in a much better situation. So mom was always with some little crackers or like a bar when she leaves the house and she’s like oh great, I haven’t understood all my triggers of my child but that I know, so without food I’m not leaving the house.
FRANCES ( 00:23:21): And that’s awesome. And that might be something like the school says you can’t do it. But yes you can do it. If this is what your child needs to engage in the curriculum and learn, 100% the school has to do it. They need to figure it out.
PIA ( 00:23:35): Right, and that’s I think that’s yeah parents need to understand that they have the option to kind of ask for this and to have it put in their IEP.
FRANCES ( 00:23:45): Right. And they have the power, if the school says no, you know to ask for the prior written notice and say okay can you please, you know put in the PWN that you’re refusing xyz because of abc. You know once you tell the schools you want it in writing, why they’re refusing. I’ve seen schools a lot of time back off and like oh no no no we can we can figure out how to make it work.
PIA ( 00:24:10): But parents don’t know they’re like they’re backing off and then I feel like they’re so frustrated with the schools. And also like I work with a lot of spanish families that you have like the language barrier. So there’s so many components where people or families, parents don’t feel confident.
FRANCES ( 00:24:29): Right, definitely. Um And so that you specifically work with autistic children. Why is it so important for you working with autistic children?
PIA ( 00:24:38): Because they don’t have a voice. I feel like because they are always, I mean they have a voice but I feel like they’re not understood the way those kids present themselves like this. I have so many children that come dysregulated to my session and they just can’t help themselves. So I feel like that just makes my little therapy heart bleed and I’m like I just wanna help, I wanna help them be more than regulated, have a good time. They want to enjoy, they want to please their parents, they wanna be just kids. So but when you’re dysregulated, just like when we are hungry you’re not feeling well, we’re not being our best and then something happens and we are like get so frustrated or something. So I feel like I’ve seen so many children that came dysregulated in my session and we did some just basic sensory strategies and kids just did more and participated more, seemed happier and I feel like that’s what I’m thriving for. I wanna have those children enjoy their family. The families enjoy their kids just like normal kids and do what kids are supposed to do, of course with some accommodation in certain cases. But I feel like dysregulation never gets anyone anywhere. So and just by helping, being more stable, makes a different child so that’s what I’m shooting for. And also I want the parents to be less stressed. I know not only when they’re stressed, they’re like, it makes it so much harder to work with your child. So when parents know they can help their child to be more relaxed. So I think that’s the difference between educating the parents but also supporting the child just to do what they want to do.
FRANCES ( 00:26:16): Right? I love that because, you know, I’m thinking like you probably enjoy, not enjoy, but when a dysregulated child comes in, it’s it’s more helpful because then you can help and teach the parents what their child needs because I know like, you know, we’ve all seen it often that a child, you know, has a meltdown wherever the playground, the store, whatever, the parents get embarrassed, the parents feel stressed, They don’t know what to do, which makes the situation worse. But if they don’t know, they don’t know. And so I’m sure working with you will help them with that. Do you go out in the community with things or do you just do the therapy in person?
PIA ( 00:26:56): So, um, most of the time I go to the home and do it in person. If there is a goal or if there’s a situation where the parent is like, okay, look, when we go to the library, there’s always a problem, transitioning or something, I will do that too. But it’s more, it’s case by case basis. It’s not on a … I don’t have a lot of families that request it. It’s more that they want to figure out how to help the child be more regulated at home, but we can do it
FRANCES ( 00:27:23): Great. I mean that’s awesome because it’s helpful both And so um I think we addressed this, like why should parents take advantage of coaching? Like why should they call you?
PIA ( 00:27:34): So? Because I feel like parents need to understand more like they need to know how to help their child and not just rely on other therapy services because ultimately therapy happens once or twice a week. So, and then you take your child home and then what? So there is a situation, it’s a drop in the bucket to have therapy once or twice a week. So I feel like life happens at home and happens in school. If you’re regulated in those two places, you will be always good in therapy, but it’s vice versa. If you’re good in therapy, that doesn’t mean that you’re also good at home or in school because the situation is just different. So
FRANCES ( 00:28:14): Different stimulus going on. Yeah.
PIA ( 00:28:17): So, and I feel like this is why coaching is a benefit of parents because they get to ask individualized questions in their environment. They’re not taking their child somewhere, I’m coming to them and actually working on what they need in the house, like if they want to go to the zoo with me, I go to the zoo with them.
FRANCES ( 00:28:35): So am I correct in thinking like in an OT session it’s focused on the child more and just working with the child, whereas with the parent coaching while yes, you’re focused on the child and helping the child, but you’re also focused on helping the parent know how to do the strategy,
PIA ( 00:28:54): So it’s focusing on the parent to understand their child, so it’s also guiding the parents to implement certain strategies that I would usually do, it’s basically I’m guiding them through working with their child basically. So it’s like when they see something like okay, why do you think your child is triggered by that input, what can we do, what are your strategies that didn’t work? That did not work? So there are a lot of open-ended questions. There are a lot of like asking what parents think and figuring it out together. So it’s not just okay Pia’s here, work with your child is like Pia’s here, work with mom, so mom understands your child or dad.
FRANCES ( 00:29:33): And then do you offer like is it just one session or do you do monthly sessions? Like how does that work for services?
PIA ( 00:29:40): So it depends on the parents on the family, but what I usually say is 5-8 sessions, that’s where I see an improvement, so and then I can say, okay maybe we can go to once a month or like every other month to kind of see how you implement the strategies yourself. Do you feel confident using those strategies by yourself or do you want me just to chime in via Zoom. So that’s totally individualized, but I feel like 5 to 8 sessions we need in order to kind of figure out the strategies together because ultimately for me it’s also a trial and error. You know, I need to get to know the parent, I need to get to know the child so to see what works and what doesn’t because again I have a lot of strategies, like two boxes full, but that one child might need something a little bit more tweaked, so that I need to find out during the sessions.
FRANCES ( 00:30:32): And I love that you say 5-8 sessions because you know, so many times people are like oh yeah we’ll start therapy and they don’t they don’t have the end goal, you know? And like for schools, I actually had one time that an OT tried to say, I don’t remember, you know what, honestly, I don’t remember, it was an OT or a speech person but they tried to say oh yeah we’re gonna put services in place until the middle of the year and I’m like no that doesn’t work in the educational setting because when the child reaches reaches the goals and can access the gen ed curriculum, that’s our guideline, You’re not putting that end, you know, date there, the end date is the annual IEP year, if in three months your child, you know, the child has achieved all the goals, you don’t think it’s necessary. Okay, we’ll come back to the table and meet.
PIA ( 00:31:25): Right. So I mean for me, it’s like helping it’s like supporting empowering, that’s my goal and however long that’s gonna take, we will see because each child is so individualized and also every parent is different, but it’s kind of like the guidance like what I have noticed 5-8 and then we’ll take it from there.
FRANCES ( 00:31:45): Perfect, that’s awesome. And it’s, you know, it’s so funny how aligned our businesses are because that’s the same thing I am, is educating the families and helping them at any stage of the, of the day, you know, of the process because, you know, some clients will be like, oh, we just want a strategy session to talk through what our options are. You know, and other clients are like, I am not going to a school meeting unless you’re sitting next to me, you know, and it depends on what you want and what you need, right?
PIA ( 00:32:12): And I have all the parents, they’re just, they have already a lot of strategies, that’s why parent coaching is so good. They come up with ideas and they just need to kind of adjust little things here and there, so that’s why I’m like parent education is so important because it’s about the parents and their child, not about me or the kids come into a session just to sit in the swing,
FRANCES ( 00:32:33): Right. And it’s also, you know, the parents, parents know more than they think they know. They don’t realize how much they do at home or out in the community or whatever, they don’t realize what they’re doing. Like that’s a strategy, let’s use that strategy or tell the school this is a strategy that works, you know, because they’re, you know, parents we’re just trying to get through every day and parents of special ed kids, it’s like it’s even harder.
PIA ( 00:33:01): Yeah. And I feel like parents know their child best, like they can see if they’re hungry, if they’re not about to have a meltdown, but they’re not and they do so many things already. For example, had another mom the other day in my session and she’s like, oh, but so we are not coming anymore, I’m like you got all the strategies, I really believe in you and she was like, oh yeah, I have everything written down. So I checked in with her a month later and she’s like, oh yeah, I got this. It’s really just empowering them with the strategies that she actually came up with guidance with me and then she implemented. So it was actually very nice to watch her grow and be able to support her child. I’m like yes, that’s what I’m shooting for.
FRANCES ( 00:33:43): Yeah, no, I love that because it’s, it’s important. You know, we, I say all the time that I don’t want families to need me because if families don’t need me, that means the schools are doing what the parents think is best and the child is progressing, everything is focused on the child and everything’s happy. Unfortunately that doesn’t happen that often.
PIA ( 00:34:06): Yeah, that would be the perfect world. But yeah, I don’t know, it’s just like in my situation like if I’m out of a job, then I feel like everybody did learn and implement it. So it would be great.
FRANCES ( 00:34:21): Yeah. But yeah, then we’ll just find a new occupation, right? But it’s, but it’s true. I mean like it’s it’s so hard and I, you know, I have friends and people that I’ve met that are like, oh, I wish I knew, I knew you existed earlier. And that’s the other reason for my show is like, people probably don’t realize there’s a OT coach out there that can help you the parent and not just the child and I know like Kennedy Krieger has an eight month waiting list for services. Where you’re there, you can come in and help the parents learn.
PIA ( 00:34:54): Right, like Children’s, I think they’re waitlist is over 1100 kids, like it’s insane, I don’t know how long, but you know, it’s definitely a lot of kids. Any of the institutions.
FRANCES ( 00:35:05): And probably scheduled like half hour 45 minutes therapy sessions over. You gotta go they have to prep for the next one.
PIA ( 00:35:10):. Yeah. No there’s no way to actually make it more individualized. Like you only have what you have.
FRANCES ( 00:35:16): Thank you so much for coming on the show. I think like this is like I love like now I know more about what you do and I feel that I can get your information out to more families um to help them and to help families to be less stressed.
PIA ( 00:35:33): I would appreciate it. Thank you for your help Frances. It was a pleasure being here and I always like and enjoy you know sharing and also collaborating with other professionals. That’s how it works.
FRANCES ( 00:35:43): Right? Working all together. Thank you.
PIA ( 00:35:46): Thank you.
VOICEOVER ( 00:35:47): You’ve been listening to Stress-Free IEPTM. With your host Frances Shefter. Remember you do not need to do it all alone. You can reach Frances through ShefterLaw.com where prior episodes are also posted. Thank you for your positive reviews, comments and sharing the show with others through YouTube, LinkedIn, Apple Podcast, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher and more.
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