In this episode of Stress-Free IEPTM, Frances speaks with Todd Boernstein. Todd is an estate planning attorney with SELZER GURVITCH in Bethesda, Maryland. Many of Todd’s clients have children or family members with special needs, which requires unique planning to take care of them and protect and preserve assets.
Frances Shefter is an Education Attorney and Advocate who is committed to helping her clients have a Stress-Free IEP experience. In each podcast, Frances interviews inspiring people to share information, educate you, empower you and help you get the knowledge you need.
VOICEOVER ( 00:00:00): Welcome to Stress-Free IEPTM. You do not need to do it all alone with your host Frances Shefter, Principal of Shefter Law, she streams a show live on Facebook on Tuesdays at noon Eastern, get more details and catch prior episodes at www.ShefterLaw.com. The Stress-Free IEPTM video podcast is also posted on YouTube and LinkedIn and you can listen to episodes through Apple podcasts, Spotify, Google podcasts, Stitcher and more. Now, here’s the host of Stress-Free IEPTM Frances Shefter.
FRANCES ( 00:00:43): Hello everyone, thank you for joining us for our show. Our next guest. I’m so excited because I’m going a little bit out this, our next guest isn’t IEP related, however very important for our special needs families. So Todd Boernstein, please introduce yourself, tell us who you are, what you do
TODD ( 00:01:02): Thank you Frances. My name is Todd Boernstein. I’m an estate planning attorney with the law firm Selzer Gurvitch in Bethesda Maryland. I’ve been practicing estate planning for over 20 years uh and I help clients with a wide variety of circumstances and in particular with with what we’re talking about today. I have a lot of clients with Children with special needs or family members with special needs and that those families require unique planning uh to take care of them and to protect and preserve assets.
FRANCES ( 00:01:40): Thank you. And it’s so important because I mean people don’t even have their basic core estate planning documents together what I mean at minimum what should families have when they have younger Children.
TODD ( 00:01:53): Alright, so I recommend it. You know, whether or not you have Children with special needs or not. Special needs, but actually even more. So when you have Children with special needs, it’s so important to have your core estate planning documents in order and complete what other core documents. So the first is a will and so a will will allow mom and dad to uh to basically say what, where their assets are gonna go when they die? How, you know, are they going to go to their Children in equal amounts or are they gonna maybe set aside more for the special needs child? Um, how is it going to go to the Children? Is it going to go to them outright? Is it gonna go into a trust for them? Um these types of things, if you don’t have a will, then you don’t have any say or control over that. And it’s really a craft shoot. The other really important area is you appoint a guardian and a will. And so if something happens to you, you know, Mom and dad, they want to be the ones to appoint a guardian and a backup guardian who will be responsible for raising their Children and in particular a special needs child. And so if you don’t have that in place, then you’re not choosing the Guardian, You’re leaving that up to potentially the courts and you may have some family members and they think they want to be the guardian and you may have other family members that may not that could lead to conflict and fights. It’s just best to plan ahead and you know what’s best for your Children. You choose that, right?
FRANCES ( 00:03:39): And I know picking a guardian, I was just gonna say picking up Guardian is hard. I, you know, I waited a while to do my will because my husband and I were not sure who do you know, it’s hard to think of that as somebody else raising your Children. But we finally said, you know what, we’ll figure it out when it’s time we need to get the will is done.
TODD ( 00:04:01): Very common. So, so many times I have clients that come in exactly like in your situation, they’ve had kids and it maybe they maybe 5, 10 years old and they just never got a well done and why a number one reason they can’t pick the guardian. So then they don’t have anything. And so that really that they’re really it’s really doing a disservice and potential harm. So I agree you come in and it may not be perfect, but you at least have a will in place and you pick guardians the best that you can. And again, once you suck, you can always amend it, it’s very easy at any time to come in and amend that one provision relating to a guardian and then you can change that. You know, it’s really as often as often as you like, but it’s important, you gotta get something in place,
FRANCES ( 00:04:53): right? And so the two things, number one, who’s, who’s the guardian of your Children. But then the other important thing is how do I leave money to my child? How do I know my special needs child is going to be cared for? Are there different ways that we can set up to leave money?
TODD ( 00:05:10): Yeah. So, um, so these are the, when I, when clients come in, whether they’ve had something in the past or whether I’m doing something from scratch, but at a very basic level, you could leave a mom and dad could leave their money outright to their Children. So let’s say they have three Children. And if they’re young, let’s say they’re in elementary school and they just say they will say, you know, I’ll leave Dad’s will says every I leave everything to mom and moms will say that if she later dies, everything will go to the Children. And if you just sort of leave it at that, if the Children are younger than 18, then it will go into a custodial account for them. And again, ideally, you would appoint a guardian who would manage that account. Um if not, then the court will appoint somebody who will manage that money. Those custodial accounts for your Children, okay? But once they turn 18, they’ll get the money, Okay, that’s 11 way. If your Children are older than 18. So let’s say you have Children in their twenties or adult Children and you leave the money outright, then it’s just there’s they get it. And uh, and, and that’s how they get their money for an adult. That may have special needs. That may be a problem for a few reasons. one the, the special needs adult, they may not know how to manage the money. And it’s possible that they could spend the money. Somebody could take advantage of them and they could be taken. Um, so that is not really appropriate in that case because you really don’t want to leave money to somebody who is unable to manage it and protect it. Okay, a second option. So some people will say, well, I have two Children. One has, you know, special needs, these might be adult Children and older sister. Um, she’s great, she’s an accountant or a lawyer. She’s great with money. What the family says is, well, I’ll just leave, leave everything to the adult sister to big sister and she’ll use the money to take care of the brother with special needs. So that that will avoid the problems that we just talked about. She’ll use the money for his benefit and it will be protected. And that, in theory is good. The problem is that there is if sister divorces, it’s possible that the money won’t be there for to take care of brother. If the money gets taken in a divorce, If sister is in a car accident, kill somebody and is sued, it’s possible that a creditor would take not sisters money plus the money that was set aside to take care of the other child. Um if sister dies unexpectedly, then the money won’t be there to take care of the autistic child. The money may throw two sisters husband or two sisters Children in their will and there won’t be the money. So leaving it to a sibling is not a good way. The best way to make sure and ensure that there’s money for your child with special needs is to leave it in a trust for that child. And if you leave it in a trust, then you can ensure there’s a legal mechanism to ensure that the money will be there for that child and and can only be used for that child.
FRANCES ( 00:08:55): So that’s a regular trust. And I know a lot of people talk about a special needs trust. Is that something different?
TODD ( 00:9:02): Yes. So, so let me um that’s a very good question. So special needs trust is kind of a broad term. Um, and there are really what I’d say two types of special needs trust that we talk about. So one is like the one that we just discussed. So mom and dad and dad in their wills will say when at the death of the survivor of mom and dad, a trust will be created at that time for a child with special needs. And the provision creating that trust are in their wills. The trust isn’t created today. The trust is created and springs into existence at the time of the death of of the survivor of Mom and dad. Okay. And it’s moms and Dads money that is used to go into that trust. It’s not the child’s money. Okay. That those are what I would call third party discretionary trust and I do those all the time. It’s very common. And and that structure is not only common for Children with special needs, but even Children without special needs, that’s very common to to structure something that way. Okay, there’s another type of special needs trust. And it’s referred to as a D four a trust which refers to a provision in the uh in the federal code. And that is when it’s the child’s money that goes that gets taken and put in a trust for the child’s benefit. Well, why would a child have a lot of money? So this is the example Child is um born and there is some sort of a problem during birth, and there’s a lawsuit and child is awarded, you know, a million or $2 million dollars because there’s a defect that causes, let’s say brain damage. And the child is actually awarded the money for that, not necessarily the parents. So it’s actually the child’s money. And in this type of trust, you, the parents working with the court and you need court approval will take the child’s money and put it into the special type of trust for the child. And it’s then used for the child’s benefit during the child’s lifetime.
FRANCES ( 00:11:36): So you say used for the child’s benefit, How do you like who decides how the money is gonna get used?
TODD ( 00:11:43): Yeah. So let’s talk about whether or not the trust was created with child’s money or with parents money, but let’s use the example with mom and dad’s money. Um So this is how the trust would work. So, um Mom and dad are in a car accident and they both die and they leave all their money to in a trust for their special needs child. Okay. What they do is they will name a person which who is called the trustee and the trustee is the one that has they manage the money. They have legal access. So what the trustee would do is he’d open up, let’s say a bank account or a brokerage account. Let’s say Fidelity, a brokerage account at Fidelity and a bank account at Bank of America. The trustee is the one who is legal access to those accounts. The trustee can write checks. He can decide how the money is invested and most important, the trustee is the one that withdraws the money and spends it on your child with special needs when the child needs it. So if the child needs care or education or clothes or health costs, whatever the child needs, it’s the trustees responsibility to take the money and spend it for the child. So the child is the beneficiary of the trust, um, but doesn’t have any legal authority to go and get the money and access the money himself, him or herself. Now, the trustee. And so who are trustees? Well, typically, Mom and Dad, what they might do if they may appoint a sibling of theirs or uh, you know, like aunt and uncle for the child. Sometimes if they have adult Children and one of the adult Children have special needs, it may be appropriate to to designate one of their other Children, their other adult Children who don’t have special needs. Um Sometimes it may make sense, expect, let’s say there there are no siblings or there are no close family members. Then there are professional trustees. There are corporate trustees either at a trust company or a bank that they are well suited. They have experience with managing trust. And there are organizations that have particular experiencing experience in managing trust for Children and adults with special needs. And they may make a great trustee. The trustee can’t use the money for themselves. They can only. So let’s say you appoint parents a point. Dad appoints his brother as the trustee for the child. Brother can’t use the money for himself or his Children or his family. The money can only be used for the child.
FRANCES ( 00:14:48): So trustee and guardian, if you appoint a guardian for your minor Children and the money you’re putting in a trust. Do they have to be the same person
TODD ( 00:14:59): So that’s an excellent question. This comes up all the time when I have clients that come in and and they named guardians and their wills and often times we structure their wills or other documents so that they leave money in trust for their Children. So the guardian’s job, there’s Guardian sort of has two roles. One is the guardian is, there’s a guardian of the person and what their job is is to make the life decisions for the child. They decide where the child’s gonna live, who the child’s doctors are, when care where they’re gonna go to school all the life, anything related to the life and the lifestyle of the child. That is what the quote guardian of the person, that’s what they are responsible for. Okay, if We don’t have a trust and somebody left their money out right to the child, then there would be a guardian for the finances. The Guardian of the finances for that child. And and in that role they would decide how the money is spent for the minor child until they turn 18 or otherwise have the ability to get equal control over most of the time they’re the same person. Okay. But there may be circumstances where it may be appropriate for maybe grandmother to to raise the child and be guardian of the person and because she’s great at raising Children, but she may not be good at managing money. And it maybe make more sense to have somebody else, maybe a sibling or a professional trustee. A corporate trustee manage the money. And so and again back to the truck. Whether it’s the trust example, if you leave money and trust for a child, you may have a trustee that is different than the guardian who takes care of the child,
FRANCES ( 00:16:59): right? And I mean, I know there’s pluses and minuses for both, but you talk through with your clients on how to set it up and what their true desires are so that they can help determine right?
TODD ( 00:17:11): I’d say so, practically speaking, I think all things being equal, it is easiest and if you can trust the person to to handle both. I think it’s usually easier if you have the same person that manages the money and is the manages the person why? Because suppose the guardian of the child says, the child needs private school or the child, child needs this particular counseling or whatever. But if they have to go to the trustee and ask for the money to get those things paid for and the trustee says, no, well then you have a conflict. So if they’re the same person then they not only can make the decision, but they will have access to fund whatever their decisions are
FRANCES ( 00:18:01): right, That makes sense. You know that, But but I’m thinking like sometimes as you said like the grandmother might be a good guardian but might not be good with money. So that would be situations that you’d want different. And then also that there’s the oversight that you make sure. Because what happens if a guardian is in there and is misappropriating funds.
TODD ( 00:18:22): So what will happen is if it is two separate things, if there is no trust, let’s say the parents just left their money out right to their minor Children, then a court will appoint a guardian and the Guardian will be responsible for managing the money. Well when there is a court appointed guardian, you have to file an accounting with the court every year, see if they account for the money and the court will see what the beginning balances and how the money was spent and what the ending. Okay. If you don’t have that, if there are, if you have instead have a trust, there are also accounting requirements. So depending on the provision that the lawyer puts in the trust, there are ways that provide safeguards for that for other people on, let’s say siblings or other relatives that can act on behalf of the minor child to make sure to get accountings from the trust from the trustee to make sure that again the trust funds are being spent for the child and not for the trustee or anyone else.
FRANCES ( 00:19:37): Okay, that makes sense. Um Yeah, because it’s you know like, okay, I’m giving up
TODD ( 00:19:41): my
FRANCES ( 00:19:42): Children and all of this money and how do I know they’re not gonna go buy, you know, a new house and wherever and put their kids in private school.
TODD ( 00:19:50): Exactly. So but so and that’s really important. I will say, you know, it’s easy. All right, well, we’ll just create a trust. Okay. But in practice really the most important choice I believe is the trustee. Who is that gonna be? And at the end of the day it really needs to be somebody that you can trust. And if and if you and if you don’t have somebody and they, by the way, you know, like a a sibling, let’s say that mom or dad, they want to they want to designate their siblings, one of their siblings. As the trustee simply doesn’t have to be a financial wizard. They don’t need to know about how to invest and they don’t need to know all the legal ramifications of a trust, they need to be responsible and honest. But what they do need to do is they need to know to go seek advice. So as long as they can seek the advice of a financial advisor and hire a financial advisor for the trust and they seek advice from a lawyer regarding managing the trust. That’s all that’s important. They don’t need that extra knowledge. They just need to be responsible and and caring and honest,
FRANCES ( 00:21:20): that makes sense. Like, and if they don’t know how to do it, ask ask the professionals. That’s why they’re
TODD ( 00:21:25): there.
FRANCES ( 00:21:28): Um So like we’ve talked to a lot of stuff on creating a trust and what you need to think through, like what are like if you were to narrow it down and say, okay, you’re creating a trust. These are the top four things that you need to think about. What, what are those things.
TODD ( 00:21:42): Okay, so again, the situation is, let’s say mom and dad, they have Children. Uh, and one of the Children have special needs. And at the end of the day, the key is if, if something happens to mom and dad and they are no longer around to care for their child, who is, how is their child with special needs gonna be taken care of? And financially, when mom and dad are no longer around. Okay, So one again, you got to choose the right guardian and you got to choose the right trustee who is the person and the trustee who shares your beliefs and is gonna spend the money in the trust in a manner that you think is best for your child, not only when the child is young, but in the future, when the child is older. Okay, So the trustee is a majorcan consideration. The second is what assets, what’s gonna fund the trust. So mom and dad, if there’s really only a limited number of resources. Okay. There may be their house, they may have some life insurance or retirement accounts or appropriate account. How is it gonna be divided if they die or they gonna leave everything equally equal 50% to the healthy child and 50% of the child with special needs or do they want to maybe leave more money in a trust for the child with special needs then maybe the other child, you know, you have to look at the facts and circumstances. Maybe the other child, you know, it has a very good profession and may not need an equal share of the money. Okay, sometimes there may not be enough money and enough assets that mom and dad have. So they may in that circumstance they may want to consider buying life insurance. And that may be a way that if you buy a certain type of a policy called the survivorship policy that only pays at the death of the survivor of mom and dad, the premiums on that are relatively inexpensive compared to other types of insurance. And that way that money can fund. And that money can be used to go into this trust to provide a nest egg and a fund to carry, you know the child through at least through, you know college or getting raised or adulthood. Another important consideration is where is the child gonna live. So let’s say there’s a minor child or even an adult child and they are living in the family home with mom and dad, that’s not uncommon. Well that’s one of the assets is mom and dad are maybe what they want to do is say we’re gonna leave the home and we’re gonna make sure that the balance of the mortgage is paid off and we’re gonna leave that in a trust for the child with special needs. And we’re, and that’s going to provide that child with a place to live for the rest of their life. We’re gonna make sure that we provide the child with the home. And then you can say after child’s death, whatever money is left, maybe that can then divert back to the other child. So it’s, it’s important to consider what assets and how you’re gonna fund the trust and make sure that it’s, it has enough money to take care of your child and do the things that you want to do.
FRANCES ( 00:25:21): Got it. And then you were saying before, like the healthy child or the child with special needs because Children with special needs. It’s such a broad spectrum that it could be medical needs. And it could be, um, it could be intellectual issues, it could be physical issues, There are all sorts of special needs. Does that change anything of how you would put a trust in place.
TODD ( 00:25:45): So it depends in Maryland the, if mom and dad leave money in a trust for their child and let’s say it’s a child with again, let’s say somewhat drastic special needs, um, that really need a lot of care. They need a place to live, they need a lot of care. The provisions that are gonna be in that trust, the provision that um, kind of set the rules for how the trust funds can be used. They may be different than what the provisions would be for leaving money and trust for a healthy child. And it, and that’s really where you need the expertise of, of a lawyer who deals with this to work with the family to determine what provisions are appropriate. Okay, What I didn’t uh, talk about before, but I really, it’s very important a lot of times if um, Children with special needs, depending on the the, the extremity of it or or the, the um, what what they are. Oftentimes may qualify for public benefits, okay, They’re receiving either Medicaid or assistance, uh, ability to live somewhere public housing, health care. Um and oftentimes if the child, adult adult child has resources of their own, then the they’re not going to pay for the public is not gonna fit, they’re not going to qualify for public benefits. So if mom and dad just leave their money and it goes out right to their child and maybe the child does not, doesn’t have severe disabilities, but has enough disabilities that they may other quality otherwise qualify for certain certain benefits. If mom and dad leave the money to them outright, that may disqualify them from receiving benefits. So another major benefit is when the mom and dad leave that money in a trust for the child, it’s not the child’s money, it’s in trust. And if the trust is written in a particular way, then that money will not disqualify the child from receiving public benefits. And that money can be there to pay for things that the child might need that would not otherwise be covered from the public benefits.
FRANCES ( 00:28:23): So it supplements that, yeah, I was gonna touch on that also because I know like a lot of our Children wind up with SSDI. And Medicare, um, and so forth. And I’ve heard of situations that families didn’t have a will and money went to the child and all benefits get cut off. And then where are you? Um So I know you said, you know, I’m thinking listeners like parents, they always say, of course attorneys are gonna say hire an attorney to do a trust because we’re attorneys. Um, but they there’s a reason that legalzoom won’t work for this. What why do you really need an attorney?
TODD ( 00:29:02): Yeah, the reason is that there are really specific rules. Um trust are complicated. So there are there are tax simply when you create a trust, there are tax implications. You want to make sure that in order to get again to get the protections that we talked about having the money and the trust not disqualify the child from receiving benefits? The trust has to contain certain provisions and and it can’t contain other provisions. And if you get something online and it doesn’t contain the appropriate provision, then you haven’t accomplished what you wanted to accomplish. Trustees, you want to make sure that there are mechanisms in place to have the trustee that you want to be designated. But if something happens to that trustee, you want to make sure that there are mecca and provision and the trust to appoint a successor Crow trustees or to fill a vacancy of all the trustees on around it’s it’s I think it’s there’s too much at stake and it’s too important of an issue when you’re talking really about the long term care of your child to try and do this on your own. It would be the it would be very difficult, I think for somebody who doesn’t have knowledge of the rules and the laws to be able to do this in an effective manner.
FRANCES ( 00:30:35): And then of course, the biggest problem is if you don’t do it right, What happens?
TODD ( 00:30:41): Yeah, I mean, well, if you don’t do it right. So like Children with special needs, if they are, let’s say receiving benefits, what’s required is you have to, when you apply for benefits on the form that the application form, they’re gonna say, are there any trust they’re gonna say what risk sources are available to the person applying for benefits. So all bank accounts brokerage account, whatever it is. And they’re also gonna say, well is the is the child, are they a beneficiary of any trust? And if so how much money is in it? And we want to see a copy of the trust and they’ll read the trust and if the trust isn’t written and doesn’t have the provisions in a certain way, it’s possible that the trust, it will not protect the assets and that the trust funds will have to be used for the care of the child and disqualify the child from receiving public benefits.
FRANCES ( 00:31:43): And these are things that you wouldn’t know until would actually kick in unless you’ve talked to an attorney.
TODD ( 00:31:49): Exactly.
FRANCES ( 00:31:50): Yeah. I mean it sounds complicated. I’m an attorney and I know I had you do mine because I’m a special ed attorney. I don’t know estate planning and it’s a lot, it’s a lot to know and not and again, not every attorney knows how to do it and knows how to do it,
TODD ( 00:32:06): right. And that’s why if somebody has uh an I. E. P. Issue. Well they need to see you attorneys, they specialize in things. And even all the concepts that I talked about today. Well we focused on Children with special needs really. This that I do very similar types of planning for Children that and family members that don’t have special needs. It’s it’s a lot of what I do. And other estate planning attorneys do is they try and and when mom and dad leave their money to their Children or to other family members, structured in a way to protect against creditors and divorce and minimize taxes so that many of the same techniques that I would use to to protect and plan for a child with special needs also apply to other family members even without it. But with Children with special needs, there are more, there are accelerated and additional issues and and things that really need to be taken care of and taken into consideration.
FRANCES ( 00:33:14): Right? Yeah, that’s so true. Um you know, something that came to mind is was setting up trust in this my father used to say, is that the trust allows him to control his money from the grave.
TODD ( 00:33:25): Yes. You
FRANCES ( 00:33:26): know,
TODD ( 00:33:28): and a lot of times that’s appropriate. Okay. And in particular maybe with the child with special needs, but in other times maybe that’s not appropriate. So. Yes. And so that’s another important point are um yeah, you can create a trust and you can pick the right trust and you can fund it with an appropriate amount of money. But then what are the provisions of the governing the trust? So the trustee has a set of rules and and the set of rules are how can the trustee spend the money? Are they, are they given broad discretion to use the money for the child in? Really whatever way the trustee thinks is best or has mom and dad in their will been very specific about the ways that the trustee can use the money. Which is like in your case ruling from the grave. They are telling the trustee you can only stem the money on these specific things and and and limited to these particular amounts.
FRANCES ( 00:34:33): Right? Because I’ve seen trustees get a little creative of like, well the child needed to go on this fabulous vacation. And of course we had to go with the child. And so the money is getting spent on that and instead of on college or health care or whatever else the parents would have wanted the money.
TODD ( 00:34:49): Exactly. And and so the things that you’re talking about um those types of provisions are very common in but I’d say boilerplate performed documents. So a form that you might pull off soon, we’re on the internet, they may in the back sort of buried in there may contain certain provisions like that that you’re not aware of. And so and and sometimes that provisions similar to that might be appropriate. Okay, it may be appropriate. Um in certain circumstances if you have a guardian taking care of your child and you want your child to be able to go um you know on trips places or to go to summer camp. Well it may be appropriate, let’s say you left them to your sibling and they have a child. Well, it may be appropriate to send um to put in the the trust agreement or put in the provision that the money that if they send one child that their child with special needs to camp, that they can also send the guardians Children to camp. So that sort of as a family, they’re treated as a family. That’s not necessarily an unusual provision. But but the point is, you need to discuss it with your clients and do what they want to do,
FRANCES ( 00:36:06): right? And then that’s the other thing is if it’s going to the court, a trustee from a court might not allow for the civil, you know, for the cousin or whoever else the child’s family. Um that’s living there might not allow for that. And so then, right.
TODD ( 00:36:22): And they haven’t. Again, the the whole key is you want to put in place a plan and trust provisions that accomplish what your pa particular objectives are and what your wishes are and how you want your child to be raised. And that’s why it’s important for you, mom and dad to set it up in the way that you want. So that if something happens to you, whoever that is taking care of your child and responsible for your child’s money. They are raising your child and using your money for your child in a manner that you would like.
FRANCES ( 00:36:58): Alright, so I’m getting the key takeaways of get your estate planning documents done as soon as possible. Speak with somebody, even if you don’t have your who your guardian or trustee is. Speak with an attorney to get that planned out and then of course use an attorney because if it’s not right, it’s the ramifications for a trust not being done right or even your will and all the other things not being done right or just. It’s not worth saving a dime here. That’s gonna cost thousands upon thousands potentially later if it’s not done right. Um So how can people contact you tod like what? How should people reach out if they want to discuss their estate planning?
TODD ( 00:37:41): Okay, well you can reach me, I’m on the internet. So my firm is SELZER GURVITCH. Seltzer Gurvitch is in Bethesda Maryland. Um My name is Todd Boernstein. You can google me and you should be able to reach me. My email address if you want to email me is tbornstein@sgrwlaw.com. But again, if you google me online you’ll see my information
FRANCES ( 00:38:15): and we’re gonna have the links in the in the show notes and everything. Um Todd thank you so much for coming on the show.
TODD ( 00:38:24): This is fun, thank you.
FRANCES ( 00:38:25): Yeah it was it was a lot of fun. It was different. It was not, you know because it’s not my usual of the IEPs. But it is something so important for the families for all families with young Children that it’s important if you want to decide if not stranger you know the judge on the bench. Whoever that is gets to decide. So thank you Todd. It was great having
TODD ( 00:38:46): you. Thank you very much and uh I guess I’ll see you friday.
FRANCES ( 00:38:50): Yeah I’ll see you friday.
TODD ( 00:38:52): All right thank
VOICEOVER ( 00:38:52): you. You’ve been listening to Stress-Free IEPTM. With your host Frances Shefter. Remember you do not need to do it all alone. You can reach Frances through Shefter law dot com where prior episodes are also posted. Thank you for your positive reviews, comments and sharing the show with others through Youtube linkedin, Apple podcast, Spotify, google podcasts stitcher and more.
Stress Free IEP™ with Frances Shefter and Todd Boernstein (Video Podcast)
In this episode of Stress-Free IEPTM, Frances speaks with Todd Boernstein. Todd is an estate planning attorney with SELZER GURVITCH in Bethesda, Maryland. Many of Todd’s clients have children or family members with special needs, which requires unique planning to take care of them and protect and preserve assets.
Learn more about Todd Boernstein on his firm’s website
Stress-Free IEPTM:
Frances Shefter is an Education Attorney and Advocate who is committed to helping her clients have a Stress-Free IEP experience. In each podcast, Frances interviews inspiring people to share information, educate you, empower you and help you get the knowledge you need.
Watch more episodes of Stress-FreeTM on YouTube.
Connect and learn more from your host, Frances Shefter:
VOICEOVER ( 00:00:00): Welcome to Stress-Free IEPTM. You do not need to do it all alone with your host Frances Shefter, Principal of Shefter Law, she streams a show live on Facebook on Tuesdays at noon Eastern, get more details and catch prior episodes at www.ShefterLaw.com. The Stress-Free IEPTM video podcast is also posted on YouTube and LinkedIn and you can listen to episodes through Apple podcasts, Spotify, Google podcasts, Stitcher and more. Now, here’s the host of Stress-Free IEPTM Frances Shefter.
FRANCES ( 00:00:43): Hello everyone, thank you for joining us for our show. Our next guest. I’m so excited because I’m going a little bit out this, our next guest isn’t IEP related, however very important for our special needs families. So Todd Boernstein, please introduce yourself, tell us who you are, what you do
TODD ( 00:01:02): Thank you Frances. My name is Todd Boernstein. I’m an estate planning attorney with the law firm Selzer Gurvitch in Bethesda Maryland. I’ve been practicing estate planning for over 20 years uh and I help clients with a wide variety of circumstances and in particular with with what we’re talking about today. I have a lot of clients with Children with special needs or family members with special needs and that those families require unique planning uh to take care of them and to protect and preserve assets.
FRANCES ( 00:01:40): Thank you. And it’s so important because I mean people don’t even have their basic core estate planning documents together what I mean at minimum what should families have when they have younger Children.
TODD ( 00:01:53): Alright, so I recommend it. You know, whether or not you have Children with special needs or not. Special needs, but actually even more. So when you have Children with special needs, it’s so important to have your core estate planning documents in order and complete what other core documents. So the first is a will and so a will will allow mom and dad to uh to basically say what, where their assets are gonna go when they die? How, you know, are they going to go to their Children in equal amounts or are they gonna maybe set aside more for the special needs child? Um, how is it going to go to the Children? Is it going to go to them outright? Is it gonna go into a trust for them? Um these types of things, if you don’t have a will, then you don’t have any say or control over that. And it’s really a craft shoot. The other really important area is you appoint a guardian and a will. And so if something happens to you, you know, Mom and dad, they want to be the ones to appoint a guardian and a backup guardian who will be responsible for raising their Children and in particular a special needs child. And so if you don’t have that in place, then you’re not choosing the Guardian, You’re leaving that up to potentially the courts and you may have some family members and they think they want to be the guardian and you may have other family members that may not that could lead to conflict and fights. It’s just best to plan ahead and you know what’s best for your Children. You choose that, right?
FRANCES ( 00:03:39): And I know picking a guardian, I was just gonna say picking up Guardian is hard. I, you know, I waited a while to do my will because my husband and I were not sure who do you know, it’s hard to think of that as somebody else raising your Children. But we finally said, you know what, we’ll figure it out when it’s time we need to get the will is done.
TODD ( 00:04:01): Very common. So, so many times I have clients that come in exactly like in your situation, they’ve had kids and it maybe they maybe 5, 10 years old and they just never got a well done and why a number one reason they can’t pick the guardian. So then they don’t have anything. And so that really that they’re really it’s really doing a disservice and potential harm. So I agree you come in and it may not be perfect, but you at least have a will in place and you pick guardians the best that you can. And again, once you suck, you can always amend it, it’s very easy at any time to come in and amend that one provision relating to a guardian and then you can change that. You know, it’s really as often as often as you like, but it’s important, you gotta get something in place,
FRANCES ( 00:04:53): right? And so the two things, number one, who’s, who’s the guardian of your Children. But then the other important thing is how do I leave money to my child? How do I know my special needs child is going to be cared for? Are there different ways that we can set up to leave money?
TODD ( 00:05:10): Yeah. So, um, so these are the, when I, when clients come in, whether they’ve had something in the past or whether I’m doing something from scratch, but at a very basic level, you could leave a mom and dad could leave their money outright to their Children. So let’s say they have three Children. And if they’re young, let’s say they’re in elementary school and they just say they will say, you know, I’ll leave Dad’s will says every I leave everything to mom and moms will say that if she later dies, everything will go to the Children. And if you just sort of leave it at that, if the Children are younger than 18, then it will go into a custodial account for them. And again, ideally, you would appoint a guardian who would manage that account. Um if not, then the court will appoint somebody who will manage that money. Those custodial accounts for your Children, okay? But once they turn 18, they’ll get the money, Okay, that’s 11 way. If your Children are older than 18. So let’s say you have Children in their twenties or adult Children and you leave the money outright, then it’s just there’s they get it. And uh, and, and that’s how they get their money for an adult. That may have special needs. That may be a problem for a few reasons. one the, the special needs adult, they may not know how to manage the money. And it’s possible that they could spend the money. Somebody could take advantage of them and they could be taken. Um, so that is not really appropriate in that case because you really don’t want to leave money to somebody who is unable to manage it and protect it. Okay, a second option. So some people will say, well, I have two Children. One has, you know, special needs, these might be adult Children and older sister. Um, she’s great, she’s an accountant or a lawyer. She’s great with money. What the family says is, well, I’ll just leave, leave everything to the adult sister to big sister and she’ll use the money to take care of the brother with special needs. So that that will avoid the problems that we just talked about. She’ll use the money for his benefit and it will be protected. And that, in theory is good. The problem is that there is if sister divorces, it’s possible that the money won’t be there for to take care of brother. If the money gets taken in a divorce, If sister is in a car accident, kill somebody and is sued, it’s possible that a creditor would take not sisters money plus the money that was set aside to take care of the other child. Um if sister dies unexpectedly, then the money won’t be there to take care of the autistic child. The money may throw two sisters husband or two sisters Children in their will and there won’t be the money. So leaving it to a sibling is not a good way. The best way to make sure and ensure that there’s money for your child with special needs is to leave it in a trust for that child. And if you leave it in a trust, then you can ensure there’s a legal mechanism to ensure that the money will be there for that child and and can only be used for that child.
FRANCES ( 00:08:55): So that’s a regular trust. And I know a lot of people talk about a special needs trust. Is that something different?
TODD ( 00:9:02): Yes. So, so let me um that’s a very good question. So special needs trust is kind of a broad term. Um, and there are really what I’d say two types of special needs trust that we talk about. So one is like the one that we just discussed. So mom and dad and dad in their wills will say when at the death of the survivor of mom and dad, a trust will be created at that time for a child with special needs. And the provision creating that trust are in their wills. The trust isn’t created today. The trust is created and springs into existence at the time of the death of of the survivor of Mom and dad. Okay. And it’s moms and Dads money that is used to go into that trust. It’s not the child’s money. Okay. That those are what I would call third party discretionary trust and I do those all the time. It’s very common. And and that structure is not only common for Children with special needs, but even Children without special needs, that’s very common to to structure something that way. Okay, there’s another type of special needs trust. And it’s referred to as a D four a trust which refers to a provision in the uh in the federal code. And that is when it’s the child’s money that goes that gets taken and put in a trust for the child’s benefit. Well, why would a child have a lot of money? So this is the example Child is um born and there is some sort of a problem during birth, and there’s a lawsuit and child is awarded, you know, a million or $2 million dollars because there’s a defect that causes, let’s say brain damage. And the child is actually awarded the money for that, not necessarily the parents. So it’s actually the child’s money. And in this type of trust, you, the parents working with the court and you need court approval will take the child’s money and put it into the special type of trust for the child. And it’s then used for the child’s benefit during the child’s lifetime.
FRANCES ( 00:11:36): So you say used for the child’s benefit, How do you like who decides how the money is gonna get used?
TODD ( 00:11:43): Yeah. So let’s talk about whether or not the trust was created with child’s money or with parents money, but let’s use the example with mom and dad’s money. Um So this is how the trust would work. So, um Mom and dad are in a car accident and they both die and they leave all their money to in a trust for their special needs child. Okay. What they do is they will name a person which who is called the trustee and the trustee is the one that has they manage the money. They have legal access. So what the trustee would do is he’d open up, let’s say a bank account or a brokerage account. Let’s say Fidelity, a brokerage account at Fidelity and a bank account at Bank of America. The trustee is the one who is legal access to those accounts. The trustee can write checks. He can decide how the money is invested and most important, the trustee is the one that withdraws the money and spends it on your child with special needs when the child needs it. So if the child needs care or education or clothes or health costs, whatever the child needs, it’s the trustees responsibility to take the money and spend it for the child. So the child is the beneficiary of the trust, um, but doesn’t have any legal authority to go and get the money and access the money himself, him or herself. Now, the trustee. And so who are trustees? Well, typically, Mom and Dad, what they might do if they may appoint a sibling of theirs or uh, you know, like aunt and uncle for the child. Sometimes if they have adult Children and one of the adult Children have special needs, it may be appropriate to to designate one of their other Children, their other adult Children who don’t have special needs. Um Sometimes it may make sense, expect, let’s say there there are no siblings or there are no close family members. Then there are professional trustees. There are corporate trustees either at a trust company or a bank that they are well suited. They have experience with managing trust. And there are organizations that have particular experiencing experience in managing trust for Children and adults with special needs. And they may make a great trustee. The trustee can’t use the money for themselves. They can only. So let’s say you appoint parents a point. Dad appoints his brother as the trustee for the child. Brother can’t use the money for himself or his Children or his family. The money can only be used for the child.
FRANCES ( 00:14:48): So trustee and guardian, if you appoint a guardian for your minor Children and the money you’re putting in a trust. Do they have to be the same person
TODD ( 00:14:59): So that’s an excellent question. This comes up all the time when I have clients that come in and and they named guardians and their wills and often times we structure their wills or other documents so that they leave money in trust for their Children. So the guardian’s job, there’s Guardian sort of has two roles. One is the guardian is, there’s a guardian of the person and what their job is is to make the life decisions for the child. They decide where the child’s gonna live, who the child’s doctors are, when care where they’re gonna go to school all the life, anything related to the life and the lifestyle of the child. That is what the quote guardian of the person, that’s what they are responsible for. Okay, if We don’t have a trust and somebody left their money out right to the child, then there would be a guardian for the finances. The Guardian of the finances for that child. And and in that role they would decide how the money is spent for the minor child until they turn 18 or otherwise have the ability to get equal control over most of the time they’re the same person. Okay. But there may be circumstances where it may be appropriate for maybe grandmother to to raise the child and be guardian of the person and because she’s great at raising Children, but she may not be good at managing money. And it maybe make more sense to have somebody else, maybe a sibling or a professional trustee. A corporate trustee manage the money. And so and again back to the truck. Whether it’s the trust example, if you leave money and trust for a child, you may have a trustee that is different than the guardian who takes care of the child,
FRANCES ( 00:16:59): right? And I mean, I know there’s pluses and minuses for both, but you talk through with your clients on how to set it up and what their true desires are so that they can help determine right?
TODD ( 00:17:11): I’d say so, practically speaking, I think all things being equal, it is easiest and if you can trust the person to to handle both. I think it’s usually easier if you have the same person that manages the money and is the manages the person why? Because suppose the guardian of the child says, the child needs private school or the child, child needs this particular counseling or whatever. But if they have to go to the trustee and ask for the money to get those things paid for and the trustee says, no, well then you have a conflict. So if they’re the same person then they not only can make the decision, but they will have access to fund whatever their decisions are
FRANCES ( 00:18:01): right, That makes sense. You know that, But but I’m thinking like sometimes as you said like the grandmother might be a good guardian but might not be good with money. So that would be situations that you’d want different. And then also that there’s the oversight that you make sure. Because what happens if a guardian is in there and is misappropriating funds.
TODD ( 00:18:22): So what will happen is if it is two separate things, if there is no trust, let’s say the parents just left their money out right to their minor Children, then a court will appoint a guardian and the Guardian will be responsible for managing the money. Well when there is a court appointed guardian, you have to file an accounting with the court every year, see if they account for the money and the court will see what the beginning balances and how the money was spent and what the ending. Okay. If you don’t have that, if there are, if you have instead have a trust, there are also accounting requirements. So depending on the provision that the lawyer puts in the trust, there are ways that provide safeguards for that for other people on, let’s say siblings or other relatives that can act on behalf of the minor child to make sure to get accountings from the trust from the trustee to make sure that again the trust funds are being spent for the child and not for the trustee or anyone else.
FRANCES ( 00:19:37): Okay, that makes sense. Um Yeah, because it’s you know like, okay, I’m giving up
TODD ( 00:19:41): my
FRANCES ( 00:19:42): Children and all of this money and how do I know they’re not gonna go buy, you know, a new house and wherever and put their kids in private school.
TODD ( 00:19:50): Exactly. So but so and that’s really important. I will say, you know, it’s easy. All right, well, we’ll just create a trust. Okay. But in practice really the most important choice I believe is the trustee. Who is that gonna be? And at the end of the day it really needs to be somebody that you can trust. And if and if you and if you don’t have somebody and they, by the way, you know, like a a sibling, let’s say that mom or dad, they want to they want to designate their siblings, one of their siblings. As the trustee simply doesn’t have to be a financial wizard. They don’t need to know about how to invest and they don’t need to know all the legal ramifications of a trust, they need to be responsible and honest. But what they do need to do is they need to know to go seek advice. So as long as they can seek the advice of a financial advisor and hire a financial advisor for the trust and they seek advice from a lawyer regarding managing the trust. That’s all that’s important. They don’t need that extra knowledge. They just need to be responsible and and caring and honest,
FRANCES ( 00:21:20): that makes sense. Like, and if they don’t know how to do it, ask ask the professionals. That’s why they’re
TODD ( 00:21:25): there.
FRANCES ( 00:21:28): Um So like we’ve talked to a lot of stuff on creating a trust and what you need to think through, like what are like if you were to narrow it down and say, okay, you’re creating a trust. These are the top four things that you need to think about. What, what are those things.
TODD ( 00:21:42): Okay, so again, the situation is, let’s say mom and dad, they have Children. Uh, and one of the Children have special needs. And at the end of the day, the key is if, if something happens to mom and dad and they are no longer around to care for their child, who is, how is their child with special needs gonna be taken care of? And financially, when mom and dad are no longer around. Okay, So one again, you got to choose the right guardian and you got to choose the right trustee who is the person and the trustee who shares your beliefs and is gonna spend the money in the trust in a manner that you think is best for your child, not only when the child is young, but in the future, when the child is older. Okay, So the trustee is a majorcan consideration. The second is what assets, what’s gonna fund the trust. So mom and dad, if there’s really only a limited number of resources. Okay. There may be their house, they may have some life insurance or retirement accounts or appropriate account. How is it gonna be divided if they die or they gonna leave everything equally equal 50% to the healthy child and 50% of the child with special needs or do they want to maybe leave more money in a trust for the child with special needs then maybe the other child, you know, you have to look at the facts and circumstances. Maybe the other child, you know, it has a very good profession and may not need an equal share of the money. Okay, sometimes there may not be enough money and enough assets that mom and dad have. So they may in that circumstance they may want to consider buying life insurance. And that may be a way that if you buy a certain type of a policy called the survivorship policy that only pays at the death of the survivor of mom and dad, the premiums on that are relatively inexpensive compared to other types of insurance. And that way that money can fund. And that money can be used to go into this trust to provide a nest egg and a fund to carry, you know the child through at least through, you know college or getting raised or adulthood. Another important consideration is where is the child gonna live. So let’s say there’s a minor child or even an adult child and they are living in the family home with mom and dad, that’s not uncommon. Well that’s one of the assets is mom and dad are maybe what they want to do is say we’re gonna leave the home and we’re gonna make sure that the balance of the mortgage is paid off and we’re gonna leave that in a trust for the child with special needs. And we’re, and that’s going to provide that child with a place to live for the rest of their life. We’re gonna make sure that we provide the child with the home. And then you can say after child’s death, whatever money is left, maybe that can then divert back to the other child. So it’s, it’s important to consider what assets and how you’re gonna fund the trust and make sure that it’s, it has enough money to take care of your child and do the things that you want to do.
FRANCES ( 00:25:21): Got it. And then you were saying before, like the healthy child or the child with special needs because Children with special needs. It’s such a broad spectrum that it could be medical needs. And it could be, um, it could be intellectual issues, it could be physical issues, There are all sorts of special needs. Does that change anything of how you would put a trust in place.
TODD ( 00:25:45): So it depends in Maryland the, if mom and dad leave money in a trust for their child and let’s say it’s a child with again, let’s say somewhat drastic special needs, um, that really need a lot of care. They need a place to live, they need a lot of care. The provisions that are gonna be in that trust, the provision that um, kind of set the rules for how the trust funds can be used. They may be different than what the provisions would be for leaving money and trust for a healthy child. And it, and that’s really where you need the expertise of, of a lawyer who deals with this to work with the family to determine what provisions are appropriate. Okay, What I didn’t uh, talk about before, but I really, it’s very important a lot of times if um, Children with special needs, depending on the the, the extremity of it or or the, the um, what what they are. Oftentimes may qualify for public benefits, okay, They’re receiving either Medicaid or assistance, uh, ability to live somewhere public housing, health care. Um and oftentimes if the child, adult adult child has resources of their own, then the they’re not going to pay for the public is not gonna fit, they’re not going to qualify for public benefits. So if mom and dad just leave their money and it goes out right to their child and maybe the child does not, doesn’t have severe disabilities, but has enough disabilities that they may other quality otherwise qualify for certain certain benefits. If mom and dad leave the money to them outright, that may disqualify them from receiving benefits. So another major benefit is when the mom and dad leave that money in a trust for the child, it’s not the child’s money, it’s in trust. And if the trust is written in a particular way, then that money will not disqualify the child from receiving public benefits. And that money can be there to pay for things that the child might need that would not otherwise be covered from the public benefits.
FRANCES ( 00:28:23): So it supplements that, yeah, I was gonna touch on that also because I know like a lot of our Children wind up with SSDI. And Medicare, um, and so forth. And I’ve heard of situations that families didn’t have a will and money went to the child and all benefits get cut off. And then where are you? Um So I know you said, you know, I’m thinking listeners like parents, they always say, of course attorneys are gonna say hire an attorney to do a trust because we’re attorneys. Um, but they there’s a reason that legalzoom won’t work for this. What why do you really need an attorney?
TODD ( 00:29:02): Yeah, the reason is that there are really specific rules. Um trust are complicated. So there are there are tax simply when you create a trust, there are tax implications. You want to make sure that in order to get again to get the protections that we talked about having the money and the trust not disqualify the child from receiving benefits? The trust has to contain certain provisions and and it can’t contain other provisions. And if you get something online and it doesn’t contain the appropriate provision, then you haven’t accomplished what you wanted to accomplish. Trustees, you want to make sure that there are mechanisms in place to have the trustee that you want to be designated. But if something happens to that trustee, you want to make sure that there are mecca and provision and the trust to appoint a successor Crow trustees or to fill a vacancy of all the trustees on around it’s it’s I think it’s there’s too much at stake and it’s too important of an issue when you’re talking really about the long term care of your child to try and do this on your own. It would be the it would be very difficult, I think for somebody who doesn’t have knowledge of the rules and the laws to be able to do this in an effective manner.
FRANCES ( 00:30:35): And then of course, the biggest problem is if you don’t do it right, What happens?
TODD ( 00:30:41): Yeah, I mean, well, if you don’t do it right. So like Children with special needs, if they are, let’s say receiving benefits, what’s required is you have to, when you apply for benefits on the form that the application form, they’re gonna say, are there any trust they’re gonna say what risk sources are available to the person applying for benefits. So all bank accounts brokerage account, whatever it is. And they’re also gonna say, well is the is the child, are they a beneficiary of any trust? And if so how much money is in it? And we want to see a copy of the trust and they’ll read the trust and if the trust isn’t written and doesn’t have the provisions in a certain way, it’s possible that the trust, it will not protect the assets and that the trust funds will have to be used for the care of the child and disqualify the child from receiving public benefits.
FRANCES ( 00:31:43): And these are things that you wouldn’t know until would actually kick in unless you’ve talked to an attorney.
TODD ( 00:31:49): Exactly.
FRANCES ( 00:31:50): Yeah. I mean it sounds complicated. I’m an attorney and I know I had you do mine because I’m a special ed attorney. I don’t know estate planning and it’s a lot, it’s a lot to know and not and again, not every attorney knows how to do it and knows how to do it,
TODD ( 00:32:06): right. And that’s why if somebody has uh an I. E. P. Issue. Well they need to see you attorneys, they specialize in things. And even all the concepts that I talked about today. Well we focused on Children with special needs really. This that I do very similar types of planning for Children that and family members that don’t have special needs. It’s it’s a lot of what I do. And other estate planning attorneys do is they try and and when mom and dad leave their money to their Children or to other family members, structured in a way to protect against creditors and divorce and minimize taxes so that many of the same techniques that I would use to to protect and plan for a child with special needs also apply to other family members even without it. But with Children with special needs, there are more, there are accelerated and additional issues and and things that really need to be taken care of and taken into consideration.
FRANCES ( 00:33:14): Right? Yeah, that’s so true. Um you know, something that came to mind is was setting up trust in this my father used to say, is that the trust allows him to control his money from the grave.
TODD ( 00:33:25): Yes. You
FRANCES ( 00:33:26): know,
TODD ( 00:33:28): and a lot of times that’s appropriate. Okay. And in particular maybe with the child with special needs, but in other times maybe that’s not appropriate. So. Yes. And so that’s another important point are um yeah, you can create a trust and you can pick the right trust and you can fund it with an appropriate amount of money. But then what are the provisions of the governing the trust? So the trustee has a set of rules and and the set of rules are how can the trustee spend the money? Are they, are they given broad discretion to use the money for the child in? Really whatever way the trustee thinks is best or has mom and dad in their will been very specific about the ways that the trustee can use the money. Which is like in your case ruling from the grave. They are telling the trustee you can only stem the money on these specific things and and and limited to these particular amounts.
FRANCES ( 00:34:33): Right? Because I’ve seen trustees get a little creative of like, well the child needed to go on this fabulous vacation. And of course we had to go with the child. And so the money is getting spent on that and instead of on college or health care or whatever else the parents would have wanted the money.
TODD ( 00:34:49): Exactly. And and so the things that you’re talking about um those types of provisions are very common in but I’d say boilerplate performed documents. So a form that you might pull off soon, we’re on the internet, they may in the back sort of buried in there may contain certain provisions like that that you’re not aware of. And so and and sometimes that provisions similar to that might be appropriate. Okay, it may be appropriate. Um in certain circumstances if you have a guardian taking care of your child and you want your child to be able to go um you know on trips places or to go to summer camp. Well it may be appropriate, let’s say you left them to your sibling and they have a child. Well, it may be appropriate to send um to put in the the trust agreement or put in the provision that the money that if they send one child that their child with special needs to camp, that they can also send the guardians Children to camp. So that sort of as a family, they’re treated as a family. That’s not necessarily an unusual provision. But but the point is, you need to discuss it with your clients and do what they want to do,
FRANCES ( 00:36:06): right? And then that’s the other thing is if it’s going to the court, a trustee from a court might not allow for the civil, you know, for the cousin or whoever else the child’s family. Um that’s living there might not allow for that. And so then, right.
TODD ( 00:36:22): And they haven’t. Again, the the whole key is you want to put in place a plan and trust provisions that accomplish what your pa particular objectives are and what your wishes are and how you want your child to be raised. And that’s why it’s important for you, mom and dad to set it up in the way that you want. So that if something happens to you, whoever that is taking care of your child and responsible for your child’s money. They are raising your child and using your money for your child in a manner that you would like.
FRANCES ( 00:36:58): Alright, so I’m getting the key takeaways of get your estate planning documents done as soon as possible. Speak with somebody, even if you don’t have your who your guardian or trustee is. Speak with an attorney to get that planned out and then of course use an attorney because if it’s not right, it’s the ramifications for a trust not being done right or even your will and all the other things not being done right or just. It’s not worth saving a dime here. That’s gonna cost thousands upon thousands potentially later if it’s not done right. Um So how can people contact you tod like what? How should people reach out if they want to discuss their estate planning?
TODD ( 00:37:41): Okay, well you can reach me, I’m on the internet. So my firm is SELZER GURVITCH. Seltzer Gurvitch is in Bethesda Maryland. Um My name is Todd Boernstein. You can google me and you should be able to reach me. My email address if you want to email me is tbornstein@sgrwlaw.com. But again, if you google me online you’ll see my information
FRANCES ( 00:38:15): and we’re gonna have the links in the in the show notes and everything. Um Todd thank you so much for coming on the show.
TODD ( 00:38:24): This is fun, thank you.
FRANCES ( 00:38:25): Yeah it was it was a lot of fun. It was different. It was not, you know because it’s not my usual of the IEPs. But it is something so important for the families for all families with young Children that it’s important if you want to decide if not stranger you know the judge on the bench. Whoever that is gets to decide. So thank you Todd. It was great having
TODD ( 00:38:46): you. Thank you very much and uh I guess I’ll see you friday.
FRANCES ( 00:38:50): Yeah I’ll see you friday.
TODD ( 00:38:52): All right thank
VOICEOVER ( 00:38:52): you. You’ve been listening to Stress-Free IEPTM. With your host Frances Shefter. Remember you do not need to do it all alone. You can reach Frances through Shefter law dot com where prior episodes are also posted. Thank you for your positive reviews, comments and sharing the show with others through Youtube linkedin, Apple podcast, Spotify, google podcasts stitcher and more.
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