In this episode of Stress-Free IEP®, Frances Shefter speaks with Melissa McCall, Owner of Moving Little Minds. Melissa is an educational consultant who provides resources and materials to help educators and families strengthen the skills of young learners. Moving Little Minds provides research-based literacy activities in fun and engaging ways. Merging instruction with play ensures that children are reaching their full potential and embark on their educational journey well-prepared for the future.
Tune in to the episode to hear about:
The science of reading — what it is and how to use it to prepare young children to read
Tips for parents to help their young children get ready to learn to read
Frances Shefter is an Education Attorney and Advocate who is committed to helping her clients have a Stress-Free IEP® experience. In each podcast, Frances interviews inspiring people to share information, educate you, empower you and help you get the knowledge you need.
Voiceover: (00:00:00): Welcome to Stress-Free IEP®. You do not need to do it all alone with your host, Frances Shefter, Principal of Shafter Law. You can get more details and catch prior episodes at www.shefterlaw.com. The Stress-Free IEP® video podcast is also posted on YouTube and LinkedIn and you can listen to episodes through Apple podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher and more. Now, here’s the host of Stress-Free IEP®. Frances Shefter.
Frances Shefter: (00:00:37): Hello, everyone and welcome to the show. I’m so excited today. We have Melissa McCall who is the owner of Moving Little Minds and she’s based out of Charlotte, North Carolina, um but can do virtual everywhere. So, Melissa, introduce yourself. Tell the audience a little bit about yourself.
Melissa McCall: (00:00:56): Yes. Hi. My name is Melissa McCall and I’m with Moving Little Minds. So I am dedicated to early literacy for young children, specifically preschoolers. I’m a preschool literacy teacher as well. So I put a lot of my literacy practices into play in the classroom and I might do a lot of professional development here in Charlotte and virtually as well. So I’m so excited to be here.
Frances Shefter:(00:01:22): Thank you. I’m excited to have you because my teaching career started with early childhood. So I was kindergarten. I did a lot of preschool work and stuff. So it’s always been interesting to me. I mean, besides the fact that a lot of times I think our country push, well, Montgomery County at least pushes our kids to reading too fast. But there’s all that pre reading stuff that we can do. That helps. Right..
Melissa McCall: (00:01:48): And that’s exactly my mission. So, a lot of the times, I don’t know, I’m sure you know about the science of reading, but a lot of preschool parents and teachers know nothing about it. And, no, I don’t think children should read yet but there’s so many fun, easy things like phonological awareness and fun games that we can do earlier, that will prepare them. So then they get to kindergarten and first grade and they’re not struggling. So, that’s my big mission.
Frances Shefter:(00:02:16): Yeah, I know science of reading. But is it something you could do a brief for all our listeners?
Melissa McCall: (00:02:21): Absolutely. So basically what we have found, 68% of fourth graders in the US cannot read. They are not proficient in reading. So there has been a huge push as we’ve looked into it. They found, guess what? We are not teaching children the proper way to read. I used to teach kindergarten and they would get a box of books and look through the books for 30 minutes and you’re reading. Well, no, you’re like rolling on the floor and I’m patting you on the back saying keep reading. So what they have found is that basically we have to make specific connections in the brain in order to learn to read. So we have to connect vision, speech and meaning. And so they found that if we use phonics along with tons of different other things that children, 95% of Children can learn to read. So, my big mission is just to teach preschool teachers and parents that there’s so many little things that we can do in relation to that that will get you ready for success so that you’re not struggling.
Frances Shefter:(00:03:27): So what are some of those tips? You know, I’m like, wait, wait, I mean, my kids are older but still like, what are some of the tips that you have for preschool parents because, you know, becoming a parent even for me with degrees in early childhood? It’s kind of like, what do I do now?
Melissa McCall: (00:03:42): So I always have give five. That’s like my big if you can set aside five intentional minutes a day and nursery rhymes, anything with repeated experiences. So basically, what they found is that children learn through repetition. And that’s a big one. So if we read a book about Penguins one time and never read it again, we’re not gonna learn, we’re not gonna know those facts. But if we do the thing, same things again and again. So anything with repetition, nursery rhymes and really going deeper, like I was, my biggest tip is a post it note. So put a post it note and write syllables on it. And you’re probably like, why would I do syllables with a three year old? But they can actually start doing syllables as young as three. So if you have that by the door and you say we’re going to the playground or let’s eat our goldfish. So if you just stick that simple word up, it will remind you just to kind of do it naturally through play.
Frances Shefter:(00:04:43): That is so awesome because I know that’s a technique. My daughter did it used it for speech because she was behind in speech. But yeah, the clapping out the syllables like I’m wondering if she had learned it earlier, how that would have been. But, you know.
Melissa McCall: (00:04:57): We might get into this later, but that was my, that’s like kind of how my passion came through my own daughter. When COVID hit, she, I’ve downloaded a phonological awareness packet and my son was in preschool. So she was in kindergarten like 3/4 the way through my son was in preschool. So I was doing preschool stuff with him. She was doing virtual learning. So she would join us and I started doing rhyming and some syllable stuff and she couldn’t do any of it. So, just like you said. Hm. First of all, I didn’t even, I was a kindergarten teacher as well, but I didn’t even realize that we should have been doing some of these things. It was not a great preschool. I just, a lot of preschool teachers just don’t realize that these things are important and that they can do them really easily. So long story short, she now has a reading disability. But again, if I would have known, ok, 20% of Children have a deficit in phonological awareness. So if I would have known that I could have done so many more early intervention things.
Frances Shefter:(00:06:00): But don’t shut on yourself. I always say that what is, I mean, like my daughter, recently, both of them actually recently got diagnosed with dyslexia and I’m like, how did I not know this? You know, like my kids, I think we have, our kids are the same age. They 1st and 4th grade. Yeah, and I’m like, how did I not realize it with all of my training? So to listeners out there, you’re a mom, you’re a dad, you’re a parent, you’re a guardian, don’t beat yourself up because even us with the educations, we have didn’t think about doing this stuff. And so that’s why we’re doing the show for you guys is to teach you parents how to help your kids in a natural way.
Melissa McCall: (00:06:45): And if you try these little things and you become aware, oh, this is not clicking, then you are just one step closer to giving them the tools that they need early because we all know early intervention is, is the best.
Frances Shefter:(00:07:01): Exactly. Yes. Because at that age when there, there’s sponges. I mean, if you think about it that when Children are born, that they have no language, you know, and in those first two years they, what their brain is developing, they just soak it all in. So put this extra stuff in and they’re just going to be that much more prepared.
Melissa McCall: (00:07:31): At my current preschool, there’s a wonderful team of teachers. They’ve been there for like 35 years and the Children come to me as like a special. So I’m like a literacy teacher. They come and they have the force classroom and the first day she was like, oh, this is not gonna go well, like this is a little too structured. And it wasn’t so much as we were still playing, but we were doing syllables and compound words and like a month in, she’s like, I have no clue that my, that these kids could even do these things and you should see like she really embraced it and has done all the things I’ve taught her. And I mean, her kids are, I mean, they are reading not because she’s forcing them to just because they can, it’s pretty amazing, like you said, they’re just little fun.
Frances Shefter:(00:08:21): Yeah. Yeah. It’s natural. You’re not sitting there and forcing them to sound out the words and memorize the site words when it’s in it. And I think what? So I’ll date myself a little bit when I went into early childhood. That was when they started the what do they call it? I can’t even remember. But like that you would do the whole classroom based on a book. So like everything would, you know, or like the letter, like B week and so everything would have to do with the letter B and stuff like that, which I mean, it worked to an extent but I’m sure adding other stuff in like, do teachers, like, I know I have some teachers listening. Do teachers need to change the curriculum or change how they’re teaching to, to put, these things together.
Melissa McCall: (00:9:02): Well, it’s funny you brought up the letter a week. Because that is a big battle that is still in preschool to this day. And so one of the things that I really like to teach them is that you have to teach the letters in cycles. So that becomes a point of contention sometimes because that’s just not how a lot of people have done things and it works for some people. That’s just, it’s just what they like to do. But I always say the example of like Abby. So Abby children learn the letters and their names first. Like research has proven that like your name, Abby, you know, abby. So Abby goes to school week one, she learns a well guess what Abby already knows. A so she spends a whole week on a then, guess what week two is b and then she spends a whole entire week on b but Abby already knows the letter B. So she has spent 10 days doing things that she already knows. So I kind of try to teach people that if we can cycle through those letters. So if we can do like, first introduce A to Z and there are gonna be some kids that are picking up on that and then you kind of slow it down and do two letters a week and really teach those. And then by the third cycle you’re looking at your assessments. So like, ok, nobody knows Y. So I’m gonna spend more time on Y. So more of a, you know, holistic approach. So to kind of answer that I do think that we do need to look at, you know, how we can beef up or change some of the things we’ve always been doing.
Frances Shefter:(00:10:39): This morning I was having a conversation with a neighbor and she is from another country and so it was very like her child is in kindergarten and she’s like, it’s so structured and they’re requiring them to read. I’m like, I know because that’s, that’s Montgomery County. Like when I was a kid, kindergarten was, I’m trying to remember. I think it was still optional and it was half day. So you didn’t learn to read developmentally until first grade and that we’re forcing these kids to learn so early. But that’s not what you’re doing. You’re teaching the pre reading skills. I don’t know if you’ve heard and I don’t want to stump like I heard that and it’s been confirmed with other people that crawling is directly connected with reading. You haven’t heard that? Yeah, there was a study on it and a physical therapist confirmed it and there was somebody else, I don’t remember. I know there was somebody else that confirmed it but said, even if you’re older and you crawl around on the floor, it can help you with reading. And it’s something about, like you said before, about the brain and the vision all connecting. So if you think about when you’re crawling and the connections and stuff and there’s something.
Melissa McCall: (00:12:01): So like crawling sooner, like children who crawl sooner can read sooner or Just crawling. Helps build. Reading. It must have to do cross lateral, like crossing the midline and how that connects like your left brain to your right, right side of the brain. I wonder if it has something to do with that. That’s interesting.
Frances Shefter:(00:12:22): Like the study was like those people, those kids that didn’t, that skipped crawling because some kids went straight to walking and didn’t crawl. They noticed had issues.
Melissa McCall: (00:12:33): That is so interesting.
Frances Shefter:(00:12:36): I’ll try to, I’ll try and find the research and link it, uh, put some links on it. But it was just, it was fascinating to me because things you don’t think about and you know what they said, somebody else said the riding the bicycle also.
Melissa McCall: (00:12:50): It must, yeah, it has to do with that like crossing the midline and how you really are making those connections to different parts of your brain. That’s 1 thing. As I’ve gotten more into the early childhood field, it’s just like the brain research is so fascinating and every single training I do, I always do a little bit on the brain because we don’t, most, of us know nothing about what’s going on in our children’s brain. So it really is eye opening. So I’ll have to look at that.
Frances Shefter:(00:13:21):. Yeah. And it’s, you know, I love that you keep saying, making the connections in the brain because that’s what’s so important that people don’t realize and I didn’t realize for the longest time, but like making the connections in the brain on something on one thing, how it impacts everything else. And that as a child, you’re building those connections you know.
Melissa McCall: (00:13:42): Foundation and then you know that I always like to say this to with so one thing that I, I read with that temperament, so your brain can always change and grow. It used to be like a thought that once it got a certain size, that was it. But they’ve proven that like your brain can always change and grow. But the one thing that can’t change is your temperament. So, I always love to point that out to, to parents, like, even with like my own husband, like sometimes it helps me like this is who you are and I can’t change this about you. So it gives you a little bit more compassion, I think towards your Children, if you start like putting that in perspective that like, ok, this, this actually is who they are and nothing I can do is going to change.
Frances Shefter:(00:14:35): I hadn’t heard that and that’s scaring me. I’m like, oh, no.
Melissa McCall: (00:14:39): Really makes you think about people in your life.
Frances Shefter:(00:14:42): Well, my girls are both very, very strong willed. , and what I say often and my husband says it too is that the characteristics I want my children to have when they’re young adults really don’t work on six and nine year olds. You know, I want you to be assertive. I want you to question everything. But when it’s mommy,
Melissa McCall: (00:15:07): I know that’s always like the strong willed child. You’re like, they’re gonna be something one day.
Frances Shefter: (00:15:14): Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. She’s gonna be leading something and I know you brought up your child, talk to me a little bit about like, how your child helped springboard where you are now.
Melissa McCall: (00:15:27): Oh, well, that was a journey. I was kind of the opposite of you as far as I always knew. There was something not quite right. So when, like, when COVID hit and I started noticing all the phonological awareness things, I was not, I guess I wasn’t aware, I was on your side that, like, I didn’t know that she was even supposed to know those things. I wasn’t working on them like I just, I had never been taught that even through college. But I always just knew she’s just so fun and loving and easy going and mature. So she always just got passed through every time and I would hear her read and like, it would bring tears to my eyes but it, everybody’s like, oh, she’s average, she’s average. And then when, we were in Arkansas, when COVID hit and she did go back to school, like they were right back into school that year after. So it was still 2020 I guess. So she was in school all those years and then we moved to North Carolina and I think the first thing they said was like, oh, she’s like, nowhere close to any, anyone who we would consider an IEP for. And I was like, ok, well, those children were probably at home while their parents were working. Like my child was in school. I’ve been working with her for her entire life basically. So it’s unfair for you just to say, oh, compared to these other children, like we should be comparing her to herself. Long story short, we went the private testing route. And she’s still, she doesn’t have an IEP because she does have a learning disability but she can, she can hang enough. So I am able to get her Orton Gillingham through school, which is great because her dibbles and all her phonological awareness stuff is so much. She has such a huge discrepancy there. So, but it I’m sure, you know, and for all the parents out there, like just advocate for your child because it’s, I’m, I feel fortunate enough that I know these things but so many people don’t.
Frances Shefter: (00:17:40): Yeah. No. And I went the private evaluation route also. And I trust me, I love school evaluations. I think they’re great to an extent, you know, but they don’t go as deep. And the other thing that I find interesting is that the schools, like the psychologist does one part and then the special ed teacher does the other part and then we talk about it together rather than when you do it private, they intertwine it all. And I think that’s so important but it was also over the summer and I know lighter staff over the summer schools and stuff.
Melissa McCall: (00:18:12): Did your daughter get an IEP for dyslexia?
Frances Shefter:(00:18:17): Yes. So, my older one, we’re working on get, she had one for speech. , so now we’re gonna switch over, , and my younger one got, it, just got it for dyslexia. And we’re, we’re, we just did eligibility. So we have the IEP meeting. I think it’s next week which is always interesting because I’m like, do you want me to write the IEP or do you guys want to write the, because I can just rewrite what you wrote or I can just start and do it all by myself because I mean, like most people know me, I’m a little bit different as an attorney because I have the special education experience. So I had a client ask once, well, after we get the evaluation who’s going to be able to do the IEP. I’m like me. Yeah. What do you mean? I’ve written hundreds of them and even more. So she’s getting the IEP and like, and as you said, I know and every vote, early intervention being so important we’re also going to be getting an outside reading tutor, because it’s my understanding and it might be different there. But my understanding is Orton Gillingham the way you actually have to teach it, the school can’t really do it fully the way it should be
Melissa McCall: (00:19:37): In our district they all got the training and like, one on one or it’s crazy. So, wow. I was more than happy with that, not having IEP, I’m like, sure I’ll be more than happy to, as long as.
Frances Shefter: (00:19:56): Right. As long as they’re getting the services, that’s what’s important. That’s interesting because one of the things that a lot of people don’t know is that on IEPs, you can actually get teacher training on the IEP. So it’s services for the child or for the benefit of the child. So, like if you have a child with dyslexia, make sure the teacher has training and it doesn’t necessarily have to be og, but some sort of training on dyslexia, which is interesting. I’ve gotten it a few times.
Melissa McCall: (00:20:33): So that makes perfect sense.
Frances Shefter:(00:20:35): Right. There’s always push back from the schools. But, you know, when you pull out, IDEA which I tell my clients all the time, like you don’t necessarily need the attorney there. But, well, it says right here for the benefit of, you know, schools tend to listen when you are able to quote the law back at them.
Melissa McCall: (00:20:54): The exact law.
Frances Shefter:(00:20:55): Whether you’re a lawyer or not, would you? You know, I tell people, like, I was talking to an attorney just say that at a meeting and see what happens, just see what happens.
Melissa McCall: (00:21:06): And they’ll probably listen.
Frances Shefter:(00:21:08): So I know I’m, like, trying to think what else. I know. What, so, what is it, what I’m thinking of? How do you determine it’s a good preschool? Like, do you have tips of like questions or parents should ask?
Melissa McCall: (00:21:23): It’s so tricky because kind of there’s two perspectives. It’s like some preschools are just so academic that like one child, I tutor a preschooler and he is already learning flashcards at school, which to me is not like they don’t even know their letter names or sounds so like you can’t, that’s a whole another ball game. But then the other part is completely play based. And so I’m kind of in the middle of like merging the two like, syllables. We can’t just play and magically learn syllables, right? Like someone has to teach that skill. And then we can play games and practice and that type of thing. So it’s a very controversial, like, you know, kind of thing.
Frances Shefter:(00:22:20): Like everything in education.
Melissa McCall: (00:22:21): Everything. So I don’t think it’s gonna be really what, what someone is, really what, what their desire is. Like, there’s been a huge push for play based preschool, which is great that yes, Children learn best through play but I just always challenge people to think a little bit beyond. Like that’s great. But what curriculum do they use? Are they teaching the letter names and sounds? Do they work on phonological awareness skills? Those are the two big ones, I would say phonological awareness and then letter sounds. If you learn your sounds, you will be set for life.
Frances Shefter:(00:22:57): And if you do it, you can teach that stuff play based.
Melissa McCall: (00:23:01): Exactly. I use we teach sounds through motions. So like we say, who let the a out and we, we have this whole dance and I mean, I get emails from parents that they like singing a song in the shower and so, you know, you can do both. So that’s not really, it’s so hard for me to say like this is what to look for in a preschool but for me personally play based. But then how, how do we teach within the play?
Frances Shefter:(00:23:32): Yeah, that makes sense. That makes sense because it’s, I mean, it’s hard like, you know, we said, you know, also, you know, as parents, we, you know, you’re coming home from the hospital with a baby and you’re like, now what?
Melissa McCall: (00:23:45): Nobody told me these things.
Frances Shefter:(00:23:47): Right? Like it’s like, wait a minute now, where’s all the nurses? And that’s the same like every stage of parenting I feel.
Melissa McCall: (00:23:56): Exactly. You know, the weather like behavior and you’re like, ok, nobody taught me that this kid is going to be yelling at me.
Frances Shefter:(00:24:04): Which is what scares me about when you said the temperament doesn’t change. I said how many more years? I mean, not that it’s bad but my kids are definitely a strong willed and have their own thoughts and ideas of the way things should be.
Melissa McCall: (00:24:23): That’s a good thing too. You nurture it.
Frances Shefter: (00:24:27): Right. Exactly. And that’s the thing, you know, it’s interesting, like how you, knowing that how you can rephrase things and do things to get them to do what you want without the power struggle.
Melissa McCall: (00:24:40): Exactly.
Frances Shefter:(00:24:42): For mine all the time. If I make it a race they’re in.
Melissa McCall: (00:24:46): Exactly. That’s the key with, with anything. Like, just make it fun, you know, make a game, make it up. My son is only motivated by like, material things, which is so, so hard. It’s like if you say like, it’s like almost like bribery, you know what I mean? And it’s not a good, it’s not a good skill, but you have to kind of figure out how you can still raise a decent child within that realm. You know, it’s just learning, learning their little tricks.
Frances Shefter: (00:25:24): I mean, it’s bribery but, you know, it’s positive reinforcement.
Melissa McCall: (00:25:29): As long as you’re not like dangling it and you have, you know, he does well with a checklist, things like that where it’s like you achieved your goal and then because that’s, I mean, we all work for a reason. Right.
Frances Shefter:(00:25:41): And that, and that’s, the thing is like, as long as it’s not,, oh, look, you got out of bed, here’s a candy, you know, a little bit more than that. And I wanted to go back to because I know, what you were saying about your child with COVID, you know, people ask me all the time, like, do I see a lot more IEPs? And the answer is yes. And is it because of COVID and the impact or because of parents are more aware? I don’t know, but it’s just have you, what have you seen with the COVID impact with reading?
Melissa McCall: (00:26:18): So the biggest thing honestly is what we have seen social emotional because these, they just weren’t around other children, they weren’t in preschool. So, you know, they, they lost that cope a lot of that coping mechanisms. But then the fine motor is also another really big one. Yeah, more than anything else. And I honest, I honestly think it’s because of all the screen time probably. Just this doesn’t take any bit of this, you know, so I would say those are the two biggest things that we see at preschool which I find to be I’m sure a direct correlation to COVID.
Frances Shefter:(00:27:04): Oh yeah. Yeah. And it, it’s interesting that you brought up screen time because I know, you know, before I was a parent, like, oh, my child is never going to have screen time. It’s going to be limited. Yeah, whatever. But I didn’t even think about it but that’s what they’re used to. That’s how they’re used to learning their elementary kids, you know, for a year and a half.
Melissa McCall: 00:27:27): And it’s interesting, like, a lot of them have never held scissors. And I think like, I think it’s just like intimidating too. Like you don’t always know what to do if you’re not like out and about with other children and people and at the library where they have access, just things like that, that you wouldn’t necessarily expect. I think we’re, we’re seeing a lot of.
Frances Shefter:(00:27:54): And I want to make sure I make the point of parents do not feel guilty. We wanted you to get through COVID.
Melissa McCall: (00:28:00): Oh my goodness. When we moved from Arkansas back to North Carolina and my daughter was virtual. We were in a tiny apartment trying to find a house and I was like I was at home with my children during COVID. Like I was not working at that time. I could not, I did like one zoom call and I was like, no, this would never have worked like you had to do whatever you had to do to get through that.
Frances Shefter:(00:28:29): Of course, you know, I remember so when we first shut down at the end of that year. , my husband and I, like, he was working from home. I can work from home and we were like, shifting up like when we would take the kids and I realized that I always wound up with the kids during the instruction time. I’m like, this isn’t fair, you know. So something I did is I started field trip Fridays and I was like, they’re not going to school Fridays. We’re going out and about. Yeah but, you know, that’s it as parents like we did what we could do. And that’s one of the things I know it’s been hard for me too and I’m sure it’s hard for other parents is to not like, should have, could have, would have. You know, because, you know, I used to tell my dad all the time, yeah, you screwed up when we were kids but you did the best you could with what you knew at that time.
Melissa McCall: (00:29:28): That’s why I always tell new parents like you’re doing the best you can, like, nobody’s like, I’m going to wake up and just suck today. You are doing the best you can.
Frances Shefter:(00:29:39): Yeah. And that, a lot of the reason for my show and my youtube channel is like, just to get information out there for parents. Like, even, you know, you don’t need to turn an attorney you don’t need a tutor. That’s fine. It’s still valuable information as a parent, as a teacher, as an auntie, as a babysitter, you know, like almost any. But, yeah, and so I’m trying to think, I know, like, so we already went through, I think we hit everything. I’m trying to think what else we like if I have anything else that I, that’s burning on the early childhood reading stuff that I’m thinking that parents would know. I mean, you gave the tips of clapping out the syllables and just being, and I’m sure like the rhyming games.
Melissa McCall: (00:30:26): Anything that’s like the nursery rhymes, I feel like put like the CDs, the old school, I don’t think they’re CDs anymore. We had CDs still, but when my kids were little, but like any of those nursery rhyme songs, , another one is back and forth conversations. So I’ve always have said,, you know, how’s your day? What’s your child say? Good? Well, they have proven, it was actually a study out of MIT that the more back and forth conversations that you, you have with your child, the bigger their brain actually is. So, rather than just saying like, how’s your day? Good. I always try. I even like, I have to do carpool at the end of the day at preschool and I used to always be like the do good day, but now I just start talking about my day and then guess what? That helps them start engaging. So, rather than like a yes, no, peppering them with questions just trying to chat about your day. So I have two things online, free resources. One is coffee chat with your child and it’s a question of the day that you can chat with your child over a cup of coffee and then it’ll have usually another literacy component. Like you might be clapping syllables if you wanna do more. And then the other one is literacy in the bathtub. So just like something you’re both stuck in the bathtub, you’re both in the bathroom together. So like let’s rhyme bubbles, bubbles, mubles, pubbles. It’s just very simple, silly things that you can do over coffee or in the bathtub.
Frances Shefter:(00:32:06): And, you know, it brings back that my parents what we used to do and I do it with my kids. Now also is the the animal alphabet game. So where, you know, like you say an animal and then the last letter of your animal is the first letter of the next person has to do. And it’s fun because then my kids are like we ran out of animals because it was an eight hour drive and we went out there and so to items, you know.
Melissa McCall: (00:32:34): Yeah, even like A to Z, we always play this like before they can watch their ipad. Like, if we’re on a long trip we have to find the alphabet A to Z. Like, that’s something you can easily do with little ones too. So, yeah, just anything that is if you just, the thing is I always say is just think for just a minute and then make it happen. Like, what can you do? That takes two minutes. It’s, and it’s hard, it’s hard to be, like, you know, be intentional. But it really, once you think about it, like, it takes 15 seconds to sing the ABC’s 15 seconds.
Frances Shefter:(00:33:10): Yeah. And I know for me like, remembering, like, I, learn a tip and a technique of, oh, that’s so awesome. It’s so easy. But then you get into life as a parent, as a working parent and I love, yeah, I love your idea of stickies, you know, just put a sticker on your, you know, on the kids’ mirror where they brush their teeth and while they’re brushing their teeth, run through the ABC’s or, you know.
Melissa McCall: (00:33:35): Exactly. So things like that.
Frances Shefter:(00:33:37): Put the sticker in the car. This has been so awesome. I love this. , I was just looking, I know you said your, your favorite book. Love You Forever. That’s the one with the, the kid on the toilet with the toilet paper.
Melissa McCall: (00:33:50): Yes. And that goes through like the life cycle. I can’t read it without crying. Yeah.
Frances Shefter:(00:33:55): Yeah, I do love that.
Melissa McCall: (00:33:57): love that I want a children’s book instead of a book.
Frances Shefter:(00:34:00): But there’s nothing wrong with that. But it’s, you know, I mean, I think back of, you know, Shel Silverstein, like the giving tree. That was another good one. That’s life and then many different colors. I think it was. I don’t remember. Yes, many days I think that one, you know, there’s so many kids books that, you know, some adults need to go back and read them.
Melissa McCall: (00:34:27): Thanks.
Frances Shefter:(00:34:29): Thank you so much Melissa for being on the show.
Melissa McCall: (00:34:31): It was great.
VOICEOVER: (00:34:36): You’ve been listening to Stress-Free IEP® with your host, Frances Shefter. Remember you do not need to do it all alone. You can reach Frances through www.Shefterlaw.com where prior episodes are also posted. Thank you for your positive reviews, comments and sharing the show with others through youtube linkedin Apple podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher and more.
Building Key Literacy Skills for Your Pre-Reading Child with Melissa McCall
Stress-Free IEP® with Frances Shefter, Episode 41
In this episode of Stress-Free IEP®, Frances Shefter speaks with Melissa McCall, Owner of Moving Little Minds. Melissa is an educational consultant who provides resources and materials to help educators and families strengthen the skills of young learners. Moving Little Minds provides research-based literacy activities in fun and engaging ways. Merging instruction with play ensures that children are reaching their full potential and embark on their educational journey well-prepared for the future.
Tune in to the episode to hear about:
Learn more about Melissa McCall:
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Stress-Free IEP®:
Frances Shefter is an Education Attorney and Advocate who is committed to helping her clients have a Stress-Free IEP® experience. In each podcast, Frances interviews inspiring people to share information, educate you, empower you and help you get the knowledge you need.
Watch more episodes of Stress-Free IEP®:
Connect and learn more from your host, Frances Shefter:
FULL TRANSCRIPT:
Voiceover: (00:00:00): Welcome to Stress-Free IEP®. You do not need to do it all alone with your host, Frances Shefter, Principal of Shafter Law. You can get more details and catch prior episodes at www.shefterlaw.com. The Stress-Free IEP® video podcast is also posted on YouTube and LinkedIn and you can listen to episodes through Apple podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher and more. Now, here’s the host of Stress-Free IEP®. Frances Shefter.
Frances Shefter: (00:00:37): Hello, everyone and welcome to the show. I’m so excited today. We have Melissa McCall who is the owner of Moving Little Minds and she’s based out of Charlotte, North Carolina, um but can do virtual everywhere. So, Melissa, introduce yourself. Tell the audience a little bit about yourself.
Melissa McCall: (00:00:56): Yes. Hi. My name is Melissa McCall and I’m with Moving Little Minds. So I am dedicated to early literacy for young children, specifically preschoolers. I’m a preschool literacy teacher as well. So I put a lot of my literacy practices into play in the classroom and I might do a lot of professional development here in Charlotte and virtually as well. So I’m so excited to be here.
Frances Shefter:(00:01:22): Thank you. I’m excited to have you because my teaching career started with early childhood. So I was kindergarten. I did a lot of preschool work and stuff. So it’s always been interesting to me. I mean, besides the fact that a lot of times I think our country push, well, Montgomery County at least pushes our kids to reading too fast. But there’s all that pre reading stuff that we can do. That helps. Right..
Melissa McCall: (00:01:48): And that’s exactly my mission. So, a lot of the times, I don’t know, I’m sure you know about the science of reading, but a lot of preschool parents and teachers know nothing about it. And, no, I don’t think children should read yet but there’s so many fun, easy things like phonological awareness and fun games that we can do earlier, that will prepare them. So then they get to kindergarten and first grade and they’re not struggling. So, that’s my big mission.
Frances Shefter:(00:02:16): Yeah, I know science of reading. But is it something you could do a brief for all our listeners?
Melissa McCall: (00:02:21): Absolutely. So basically what we have found, 68% of fourth graders in the US cannot read. They are not proficient in reading. So there has been a huge push as we’ve looked into it. They found, guess what? We are not teaching children the proper way to read. I used to teach kindergarten and they would get a box of books and look through the books for 30 minutes and you’re reading. Well, no, you’re like rolling on the floor and I’m patting you on the back saying keep reading. So what they have found is that basically we have to make specific connections in the brain in order to learn to read. So we have to connect vision, speech and meaning. And so they found that if we use phonics along with tons of different other things that children, 95% of Children can learn to read. So, my big mission is just to teach preschool teachers and parents that there’s so many little things that we can do in relation to that that will get you ready for success so that you’re not struggling.
Frances Shefter:(00:03:27): So what are some of those tips? You know, I’m like, wait, wait, I mean, my kids are older but still like, what are some of the tips that you have for preschool parents because, you know, becoming a parent even for me with degrees in early childhood? It’s kind of like, what do I do now?
Melissa McCall: (00:03:42): So I always have give five. That’s like my big if you can set aside five intentional minutes a day and nursery rhymes, anything with repeated experiences. So basically, what they found is that children learn through repetition. And that’s a big one. So if we read a book about Penguins one time and never read it again, we’re not gonna learn, we’re not gonna know those facts. But if we do the thing, same things again and again. So anything with repetition, nursery rhymes and really going deeper, like I was, my biggest tip is a post it note. So put a post it note and write syllables on it. And you’re probably like, why would I do syllables with a three year old? But they can actually start doing syllables as young as three. So if you have that by the door and you say we’re going to the playground or let’s eat our goldfish. So if you just stick that simple word up, it will remind you just to kind of do it naturally through play.
Frances Shefter:(00:04:43): That is so awesome because I know that’s a technique. My daughter did it used it for speech because she was behind in speech. But yeah, the clapping out the syllables like I’m wondering if she had learned it earlier, how that would have been. But, you know.
Melissa McCall: (00:04:57): We might get into this later, but that was my, that’s like kind of how my passion came through my own daughter. When COVID hit, she, I’ve downloaded a phonological awareness packet and my son was in preschool. So she was in kindergarten like 3/4 the way through my son was in preschool. So I was doing preschool stuff with him. She was doing virtual learning. So she would join us and I started doing rhyming and some syllable stuff and she couldn’t do any of it. So, just like you said. Hm. First of all, I didn’t even, I was a kindergarten teacher as well, but I didn’t even realize that we should have been doing some of these things. It was not a great preschool. I just, a lot of preschool teachers just don’t realize that these things are important and that they can do them really easily. So long story short, she now has a reading disability. But again, if I would have known, ok, 20% of Children have a deficit in phonological awareness. So if I would have known that I could have done so many more early intervention things.
Frances Shefter:(00:06:00): But don’t shut on yourself. I always say that what is, I mean, like my daughter, recently, both of them actually recently got diagnosed with dyslexia and I’m like, how did I not know this? You know, like my kids, I think we have, our kids are the same age. They 1st and 4th grade. Yeah, and I’m like, how did I not realize it with all of my training? So to listeners out there, you’re a mom, you’re a dad, you’re a parent, you’re a guardian, don’t beat yourself up because even us with the educations, we have didn’t think about doing this stuff. And so that’s why we’re doing the show for you guys is to teach you parents how to help your kids in a natural way.
Melissa McCall: (00:06:45): And if you try these little things and you become aware, oh, this is not clicking, then you are just one step closer to giving them the tools that they need early because we all know early intervention is, is the best.
Frances Shefter:(00:07:01): Exactly. Yes. Because at that age when there, there’s sponges. I mean, if you think about it that when Children are born, that they have no language, you know, and in those first two years they, what their brain is developing, they just soak it all in. So put this extra stuff in and they’re just going to be that much more prepared.
Melissa McCall: (00:07:31): At my current preschool, there’s a wonderful team of teachers. They’ve been there for like 35 years and the Children come to me as like a special. So I’m like a literacy teacher. They come and they have the force classroom and the first day she was like, oh, this is not gonna go well, like this is a little too structured. And it wasn’t so much as we were still playing, but we were doing syllables and compound words and like a month in, she’s like, I have no clue that my, that these kids could even do these things and you should see like she really embraced it and has done all the things I’ve taught her. And I mean, her kids are, I mean, they are reading not because she’s forcing them to just because they can, it’s pretty amazing, like you said, they’re just little fun.
Frances Shefter:(00:08:21): Yeah. Yeah. It’s natural. You’re not sitting there and forcing them to sound out the words and memorize the site words when it’s in it. And I think what? So I’ll date myself a little bit when I went into early childhood. That was when they started the what do they call it? I can’t even remember. But like that you would do the whole classroom based on a book. So like everything would, you know, or like the letter, like B week and so everything would have to do with the letter B and stuff like that, which I mean, it worked to an extent but I’m sure adding other stuff in like, do teachers, like, I know I have some teachers listening. Do teachers need to change the curriculum or change how they’re teaching to, to put, these things together.
Melissa McCall: (00:9:02): Well, it’s funny you brought up the letter a week. Because that is a big battle that is still in preschool to this day. And so one of the things that I really like to teach them is that you have to teach the letters in cycles. So that becomes a point of contention sometimes because that’s just not how a lot of people have done things and it works for some people. That’s just, it’s just what they like to do. But I always say the example of like Abby. So Abby children learn the letters and their names first. Like research has proven that like your name, Abby, you know, abby. So Abby goes to school week one, she learns a well guess what Abby already knows. A so she spends a whole week on a then, guess what week two is b and then she spends a whole entire week on b but Abby already knows the letter B. So she has spent 10 days doing things that she already knows. So I kind of try to teach people that if we can cycle through those letters. So if we can do like, first introduce A to Z and there are gonna be some kids that are picking up on that and then you kind of slow it down and do two letters a week and really teach those. And then by the third cycle you’re looking at your assessments. So like, ok, nobody knows Y. So I’m gonna spend more time on Y. So more of a, you know, holistic approach. So to kind of answer that I do think that we do need to look at, you know, how we can beef up or change some of the things we’ve always been doing.
Frances Shefter:(00:10:39): This morning I was having a conversation with a neighbor and she is from another country and so it was very like her child is in kindergarten and she’s like, it’s so structured and they’re requiring them to read. I’m like, I know because that’s, that’s Montgomery County. Like when I was a kid, kindergarten was, I’m trying to remember. I think it was still optional and it was half day. So you didn’t learn to read developmentally until first grade and that we’re forcing these kids to learn so early. But that’s not what you’re doing. You’re teaching the pre reading skills. I don’t know if you’ve heard and I don’t want to stump like I heard that and it’s been confirmed with other people that crawling is directly connected with reading. You haven’t heard that? Yeah, there was a study on it and a physical therapist confirmed it and there was somebody else, I don’t remember. I know there was somebody else that confirmed it but said, even if you’re older and you crawl around on the floor, it can help you with reading. And it’s something about, like you said before, about the brain and the vision all connecting. So if you think about when you’re crawling and the connections and stuff and there’s something.
Melissa McCall: (00:12:01): So like crawling sooner, like children who crawl sooner can read sooner or Just crawling. Helps build. Reading. It must have to do cross lateral, like crossing the midline and how that connects like your left brain to your right, right side of the brain. I wonder if it has something to do with that. That’s interesting.
Frances Shefter:(00:12:22): Like the study was like those people, those kids that didn’t, that skipped crawling because some kids went straight to walking and didn’t crawl. They noticed had issues.
Melissa McCall: (00:12:33): That is so interesting.
Frances Shefter:(00:12:36): I’ll try to, I’ll try and find the research and link it, uh, put some links on it. But it was just, it was fascinating to me because things you don’t think about and you know what they said, somebody else said the riding the bicycle also.
Melissa McCall: (00:12:50): It must, yeah, it has to do with that like crossing the midline and how you really are making those connections to different parts of your brain. That’s 1 thing. As I’ve gotten more into the early childhood field, it’s just like the brain research is so fascinating and every single training I do, I always do a little bit on the brain because we don’t, most, of us know nothing about what’s going on in our children’s brain. So it really is eye opening. So I’ll have to look at that.
Frances Shefter:(00:13:21):. Yeah. And it’s, you know, I love that you keep saying, making the connections in the brain because that’s what’s so important that people don’t realize and I didn’t realize for the longest time, but like making the connections in the brain on something on one thing, how it impacts everything else. And that as a child, you’re building those connections you know.
Melissa McCall: (00:13:42): Foundation and then you know that I always like to say this to with so one thing that I, I read with that temperament, so your brain can always change and grow. It used to be like a thought that once it got a certain size, that was it. But they’ve proven that like your brain can always change and grow. But the one thing that can’t change is your temperament. So, I always love to point that out to, to parents, like, even with like my own husband, like sometimes it helps me like this is who you are and I can’t change this about you. So it gives you a little bit more compassion, I think towards your Children, if you start like putting that in perspective that like, ok, this, this actually is who they are and nothing I can do is going to change.
Frances Shefter:(00:14:35): I hadn’t heard that and that’s scaring me. I’m like, oh, no.
Melissa McCall: (00:14:39): Really makes you think about people in your life.
Frances Shefter:(00:14:42): Well, my girls are both very, very strong willed. , and what I say often and my husband says it too is that the characteristics I want my children to have when they’re young adults really don’t work on six and nine year olds. You know, I want you to be assertive. I want you to question everything. But when it’s mommy,
Melissa McCall: (00:15:07): I know that’s always like the strong willed child. You’re like, they’re gonna be something one day.
Frances Shefter: (00:15:14): Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. She’s gonna be leading something and I know you brought up your child, talk to me a little bit about like, how your child helped springboard where you are now.
Melissa McCall: (00:15:27): Oh, well, that was a journey. I was kind of the opposite of you as far as I always knew. There was something not quite right. So when, like, when COVID hit and I started noticing all the phonological awareness things, I was not, I guess I wasn’t aware, I was on your side that, like, I didn’t know that she was even supposed to know those things. I wasn’t working on them like I just, I had never been taught that even through college. But I always just knew she’s just so fun and loving and easy going and mature. So she always just got passed through every time and I would hear her read and like, it would bring tears to my eyes but it, everybody’s like, oh, she’s average, she’s average. And then when, we were in Arkansas, when COVID hit and she did go back to school, like they were right back into school that year after. So it was still 2020 I guess. So she was in school all those years and then we moved to North Carolina and I think the first thing they said was like, oh, she’s like, nowhere close to any, anyone who we would consider an IEP for. And I was like, ok, well, those children were probably at home while their parents were working. Like my child was in school. I’ve been working with her for her entire life basically. So it’s unfair for you just to say, oh, compared to these other children, like we should be comparing her to herself. Long story short, we went the private testing route. And she’s still, she doesn’t have an IEP because she does have a learning disability but she can, she can hang enough. So I am able to get her Orton Gillingham through school, which is great because her dibbles and all her phonological awareness stuff is so much. She has such a huge discrepancy there. So, but it I’m sure, you know, and for all the parents out there, like just advocate for your child because it’s, I’m, I feel fortunate enough that I know these things but so many people don’t.
Frances Shefter: (00:17:40): Yeah. No. And I went the private evaluation route also. And I trust me, I love school evaluations. I think they’re great to an extent, you know, but they don’t go as deep. And the other thing that I find interesting is that the schools, like the psychologist does one part and then the special ed teacher does the other part and then we talk about it together rather than when you do it private, they intertwine it all. And I think that’s so important but it was also over the summer and I know lighter staff over the summer schools and stuff.
Melissa McCall: (00:18:12): Did your daughter get an IEP for dyslexia?
Frances Shefter:(00:18:17): Yes. So, my older one, we’re working on get, she had one for speech. , so now we’re gonna switch over, , and my younger one got, it, just got it for dyslexia. And we’re, we’re, we just did eligibility. So we have the IEP meeting. I think it’s next week which is always interesting because I’m like, do you want me to write the IEP or do you guys want to write the, because I can just rewrite what you wrote or I can just start and do it all by myself because I mean, like most people know me, I’m a little bit different as an attorney because I have the special education experience. So I had a client ask once, well, after we get the evaluation who’s going to be able to do the IEP. I’m like me. Yeah. What do you mean? I’ve written hundreds of them and even more. So she’s getting the IEP and like, and as you said, I know and every vote, early intervention being so important we’re also going to be getting an outside reading tutor, because it’s my understanding and it might be different there. But my understanding is Orton Gillingham the way you actually have to teach it, the school can’t really do it fully the way it should be
Melissa McCall: (00:19:37): In our district they all got the training and like, one on one or it’s crazy. So, wow. I was more than happy with that, not having IEP, I’m like, sure I’ll be more than happy to, as long as.
Frances Shefter: (00:19:56): Right. As long as they’re getting the services, that’s what’s important. That’s interesting because one of the things that a lot of people don’t know is that on IEPs, you can actually get teacher training on the IEP. So it’s services for the child or for the benefit of the child. So, like if you have a child with dyslexia, make sure the teacher has training and it doesn’t necessarily have to be og, but some sort of training on dyslexia, which is interesting. I’ve gotten it a few times.
Melissa McCall: (00:20:33): So that makes perfect sense.
Frances Shefter:(00:20:35): Right. There’s always push back from the schools. But, you know, when you pull out, IDEA which I tell my clients all the time, like you don’t necessarily need the attorney there. But, well, it says right here for the benefit of, you know, schools tend to listen when you are able to quote the law back at them.
Melissa McCall: (00:20:54): The exact law.
Frances Shefter:(00:20:55): Whether you’re a lawyer or not, would you? You know, I tell people, like, I was talking to an attorney just say that at a meeting and see what happens, just see what happens.
Melissa McCall: (00:21:06): And they’ll probably listen.
Frances Shefter:(00:21:08): So I know I’m, like, trying to think what else. I know. What, so, what is it, what I’m thinking of? How do you determine it’s a good preschool? Like, do you have tips of like questions or parents should ask?
Melissa McCall: (00:21:23): It’s so tricky because kind of there’s two perspectives. It’s like some preschools are just so academic that like one child, I tutor a preschooler and he is already learning flashcards at school, which to me is not like they don’t even know their letter names or sounds so like you can’t, that’s a whole another ball game. But then the other part is completely play based. And so I’m kind of in the middle of like merging the two like, syllables. We can’t just play and magically learn syllables, right? Like someone has to teach that skill. And then we can play games and practice and that type of thing. So it’s a very controversial, like, you know, kind of thing.
Frances Shefter:(00:22:20): Like everything in education.
Melissa McCall: (00:22:21): Everything. So I don’t think it’s gonna be really what, what someone is, really what, what their desire is. Like, there’s been a huge push for play based preschool, which is great that yes, Children learn best through play but I just always challenge people to think a little bit beyond. Like that’s great. But what curriculum do they use? Are they teaching the letter names and sounds? Do they work on phonological awareness skills? Those are the two big ones, I would say phonological awareness and then letter sounds. If you learn your sounds, you will be set for life.
Frances Shefter:(00:22:57): And if you do it, you can teach that stuff play based.
Melissa McCall: (00:23:01): Exactly. I use we teach sounds through motions. So like we say, who let the a out and we, we have this whole dance and I mean, I get emails from parents that they like singing a song in the shower and so, you know, you can do both. So that’s not really, it’s so hard for me to say like this is what to look for in a preschool but for me personally play based. But then how, how do we teach within the play?
Frances Shefter:(00:23:32): Yeah, that makes sense. That makes sense because it’s, I mean, it’s hard like, you know, we said, you know, also, you know, as parents, we, you know, you’re coming home from the hospital with a baby and you’re like, now what?
Melissa McCall: (00:23:45): Nobody told me these things.
Frances Shefter:(00:23:47): Right? Like it’s like, wait a minute now, where’s all the nurses? And that’s the same like every stage of parenting I feel.
Melissa McCall: (00:23:56): Exactly. You know, the weather like behavior and you’re like, ok, nobody taught me that this kid is going to be yelling at me.
Frances Shefter:(00:24:04): Which is what scares me about when you said the temperament doesn’t change. I said how many more years? I mean, not that it’s bad but my kids are definitely a strong willed and have their own thoughts and ideas of the way things should be.
Melissa McCall: (00:24:23): That’s a good thing too. You nurture it.
Frances Shefter: (00:24:27): Right. Exactly. And that’s the thing, you know, it’s interesting, like how you, knowing that how you can rephrase things and do things to get them to do what you want without the power struggle.
Melissa McCall: (00:24:40): Exactly.
Frances Shefter:(00:24:42): For mine all the time. If I make it a race they’re in.
Melissa McCall: (00:24:46): Exactly. That’s the key with, with anything. Like, just make it fun, you know, make a game, make it up. My son is only motivated by like, material things, which is so, so hard. It’s like if you say like, it’s like almost like bribery, you know what I mean? And it’s not a good, it’s not a good skill, but you have to kind of figure out how you can still raise a decent child within that realm. You know, it’s just learning, learning their little tricks.
Frances Shefter: (00:25:24): I mean, it’s bribery but, you know, it’s positive reinforcement.
Melissa McCall: (00:25:29): As long as you’re not like dangling it and you have, you know, he does well with a checklist, things like that where it’s like you achieved your goal and then because that’s, I mean, we all work for a reason. Right.
Frances Shefter:(00:25:41): And that, and that’s, the thing is like, as long as it’s not,, oh, look, you got out of bed, here’s a candy, you know, a little bit more than that. And I wanted to go back to because I know, what you were saying about your child with COVID, you know, people ask me all the time, like, do I see a lot more IEPs? And the answer is yes. And is it because of COVID and the impact or because of parents are more aware? I don’t know, but it’s just have you, what have you seen with the COVID impact with reading?
Melissa McCall: (00:26:18): So the biggest thing honestly is what we have seen social emotional because these, they just weren’t around other children, they weren’t in preschool. So, you know, they, they lost that cope a lot of that coping mechanisms. But then the fine motor is also another really big one. Yeah, more than anything else. And I honest, I honestly think it’s because of all the screen time probably. Just this doesn’t take any bit of this, you know, so I would say those are the two biggest things that we see at preschool which I find to be I’m sure a direct correlation to COVID.
Frances Shefter:(00:27:04): Oh yeah. Yeah. And it, it’s interesting that you brought up screen time because I know, you know, before I was a parent, like, oh, my child is never going to have screen time. It’s going to be limited. Yeah, whatever. But I didn’t even think about it but that’s what they’re used to. That’s how they’re used to learning their elementary kids, you know, for a year and a half.
Melissa McCall: 00:27:27): And it’s interesting, like, a lot of them have never held scissors. And I think like, I think it’s just like intimidating too. Like you don’t always know what to do if you’re not like out and about with other children and people and at the library where they have access, just things like that, that you wouldn’t necessarily expect. I think we’re, we’re seeing a lot of.
Frances Shefter:(00:27:54): And I want to make sure I make the point of parents do not feel guilty. We wanted you to get through COVID.
Melissa McCall: (00:28:00): Oh my goodness. When we moved from Arkansas back to North Carolina and my daughter was virtual. We were in a tiny apartment trying to find a house and I was like I was at home with my children during COVID. Like I was not working at that time. I could not, I did like one zoom call and I was like, no, this would never have worked like you had to do whatever you had to do to get through that.
Frances Shefter:(00:28:29): Of course, you know, I remember so when we first shut down at the end of that year. , my husband and I, like, he was working from home. I can work from home and we were like, shifting up like when we would take the kids and I realized that I always wound up with the kids during the instruction time. I’m like, this isn’t fair, you know. So something I did is I started field trip Fridays and I was like, they’re not going to school Fridays. We’re going out and about. Yeah but, you know, that’s it as parents like we did what we could do. And that’s one of the things I know it’s been hard for me too and I’m sure it’s hard for other parents is to not like, should have, could have, would have. You know, because, you know, I used to tell my dad all the time, yeah, you screwed up when we were kids but you did the best you could with what you knew at that time.
Melissa McCall: (00:29:28): That’s why I always tell new parents like you’re doing the best you can, like, nobody’s like, I’m going to wake up and just suck today. You are doing the best you can.
Frances Shefter:(00:29:39): Yeah. And that, a lot of the reason for my show and my youtube channel is like, just to get information out there for parents. Like, even, you know, you don’t need to turn an attorney you don’t need a tutor. That’s fine. It’s still valuable information as a parent, as a teacher, as an auntie, as a babysitter, you know, like almost any. But, yeah, and so I’m trying to think, I know, like, so we already went through, I think we hit everything. I’m trying to think what else we like if I have anything else that I, that’s burning on the early childhood reading stuff that I’m thinking that parents would know. I mean, you gave the tips of clapping out the syllables and just being, and I’m sure like the rhyming games.
Melissa McCall: (00:30:26): Anything that’s like the nursery rhymes, I feel like put like the CDs, the old school, I don’t think they’re CDs anymore. We had CDs still, but when my kids were little, but like any of those nursery rhyme songs, , another one is back and forth conversations. So I’ve always have said,, you know, how’s your day? What’s your child say? Good? Well, they have proven, it was actually a study out of MIT that the more back and forth conversations that you, you have with your child, the bigger their brain actually is. So, rather than just saying like, how’s your day? Good. I always try. I even like, I have to do carpool at the end of the day at preschool and I used to always be like the do good day, but now I just start talking about my day and then guess what? That helps them start engaging. So, rather than like a yes, no, peppering them with questions just trying to chat about your day. So I have two things online, free resources. One is coffee chat with your child and it’s a question of the day that you can chat with your child over a cup of coffee and then it’ll have usually another literacy component. Like you might be clapping syllables if you wanna do more. And then the other one is literacy in the bathtub. So just like something you’re both stuck in the bathtub, you’re both in the bathroom together. So like let’s rhyme bubbles, bubbles, mubles, pubbles. It’s just very simple, silly things that you can do over coffee or in the bathtub.
Frances Shefter:(00:32:06): And, you know, it brings back that my parents what we used to do and I do it with my kids. Now also is the the animal alphabet game. So where, you know, like you say an animal and then the last letter of your animal is the first letter of the next person has to do. And it’s fun because then my kids are like we ran out of animals because it was an eight hour drive and we went out there and so to items, you know.
Melissa McCall: (00:32:34): Yeah, even like A to Z, we always play this like before they can watch their ipad. Like, if we’re on a long trip we have to find the alphabet A to Z. Like, that’s something you can easily do with little ones too. So, yeah, just anything that is if you just, the thing is I always say is just think for just a minute and then make it happen. Like, what can you do? That takes two minutes. It’s, and it’s hard, it’s hard to be, like, you know, be intentional. But it really, once you think about it, like, it takes 15 seconds to sing the ABC’s 15 seconds.
Frances Shefter:(00:33:10): Yeah. And I know for me like, remembering, like, I, learn a tip and a technique of, oh, that’s so awesome. It’s so easy. But then you get into life as a parent, as a working parent and I love, yeah, I love your idea of stickies, you know, just put a sticker on your, you know, on the kids’ mirror where they brush their teeth and while they’re brushing their teeth, run through the ABC’s or, you know.
Melissa McCall: (00:33:35): Exactly. So things like that.
Frances Shefter:(00:33:37): Put the sticker in the car. This has been so awesome. I love this. , I was just looking, I know you said your, your favorite book. Love You Forever. That’s the one with the, the kid on the toilet with the toilet paper.
Melissa McCall: (00:33:50): Yes. And that goes through like the life cycle. I can’t read it without crying. Yeah.
Frances Shefter:(00:33:55): Yeah, I do love that.
Melissa McCall: (00:33:57): love that I want a children’s book instead of a book.
Frances Shefter:(00:34:00): But there’s nothing wrong with that. But it’s, you know, I mean, I think back of, you know, Shel Silverstein, like the giving tree. That was another good one. That’s life and then many different colors. I think it was. I don’t remember. Yes, many days I think that one, you know, there’s so many kids books that, you know, some adults need to go back and read them.
Melissa McCall: (00:34:27): Thanks.
Frances Shefter:(00:34:29): Thank you so much Melissa for being on the show.
Melissa McCall: (00:34:31): It was great.
VOICEOVER: (00:34:36): You’ve been listening to Stress-Free IEP® with your host, Frances Shefter. Remember you do not need to do it all alone. You can reach Frances through www.Shefterlaw.com where prior episodes are also posted. Thank you for your positive reviews, comments and sharing the show with others through youtube linkedin Apple podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher and more.
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