In this episode of Stress-Free IEP®, Frances Shefter speaks with Deepa Gosal, Educational Therapist and owner of Learning Tree Coach.
Deepa is an experienced Education Therapist with a demonstrated history of working in the education management industry. Deepa is skilled in Educational Assessment, Differentiated Instruction, Curriculum Development, Teaching, and Education.
The Learning Tree Coach is a collection of educational therapists assisting students diagnosed with Executive Function Challenges, Dyslexia, ADD/ADHD, Dysgraphia, and Dyscalculia, among other learning differences. They offer research-driven support, employing systematic, explicit, and sequential methods along with multi-sensory curricula and techniques.
Tune in to the episode to hear about:
What Educational Therapy is
The difference between educational therapy and tutoring
How case managers use family and school partnerships to support therapy
The pros and cons of virtual and in-person therapy sessions
Additional resources to pair with educational therapy
Frances Shefter is an Education Attorney and Advocate who is committed to helping her clients have a Stress-Free IEP® experience. In each podcast, Frances interviews inspiring people to share information, educate you, empower you and help you get the knowledge you need.
VOICEOVER (00:00:01): Welcome to Stress-Free IEP®. You do not need to do it all alone with your host, Frances Shefter, Principal of Shefter Law. You can get more details and catch prior episodes at www.shefterlaw.com. The Stress-Free IEP® video podcast is also posted on YouTube and LinkedIn and you can listen to episodes through Apple podcast, Spotify, Google podcast, Stitcher and more. Now, here’s the host of Stress-Free IEP®. Frances Shefter.
Frances Shefter (00:00:38): Hello everyone and welcome to the show. Today’s special guest is Deepa Gosal. I got it right. She’s out in California. And her company is Learning Tree Coach. Deepa, you’re an educational therapist, right? So what is educational therapy?
Deepa Gosal: (00:01:04): Great question. Let me take a minute to kind of explain this. How we differ from a tutor is, the tutoring and educational therapy both have their place and tutoring is the reinforcement of concepts helping with homework, helping kids get through what they’re currently working on. Whereas educational therapy is a little more complicated and layered. There’s a couple of components that we kind of work on. One is remediation and we work a lot with kids. We primarily work with kids with learning differences or where we suspect more is going on. And what that involves is we will go back and read through their assessments if assessments have been done or do our own informal assessments to look at. Where are the gaps in their learning? What are things that they missed along the way that we got to go back and fill in? Because otherwise, as we’re moving forward, all we’re doing is putting a bandaid on it and we’re not solving what the underlying issue is. And so that’s one of the aspects of it. The second part is we do a lot of strategy building, helping kids understand how to break things down, using tools that are gonna work for them and their learning style to kind of achieve what they need to achieve and, and get towards a place where they, they feel like they’re working towards some sort of mastery, right? Then another part which is really interesting, I think is the whole term of educational therapist. There is this therapy side of what we do. We work a lot on the social emotional element that kids experience when they have a learning challenge in the scope of academics, right? Actually, I know these statistics change but I know that kids with ADHD are 32% more likely to have anxiety. 16% more likely to have depression as well as kids with dyslexia. I think it’s like 20% more likely to have anxiety as well as depression, right? So, we really wanna kind of be there for them and help them understand what’s going on and what are you feeling and how can you be an advocate and understand your learning style?
Frances Shefter: (00:03:20): That’s so awesome because it’s true. I say it all the time and even our SD or our kids on the spectrum, it’s so often I see the diagnosis, SD ADHD anxiety and it’s all intertwined which is pushing me more and more. I hate labels. I’ve always hated labels to begin with and everybody always says, well, the code doesn’t matter, it doesn’t drive services, but reality check when somebody picks up an IEP and it says emotional disability that triggers behavior issues in their head, right? And they don’t think of our kids with anxiety that internalize. So how do you help kids? When you go with the kids with anxiety, what techniques do you use? Because I’m assuming you’re not a therapist in the sense of social work therapy?
Deepa Gosal: (00:04:10): No. It’s within the scope of academics of like, you have this homework assignment coming up. But what feelings is that bringing up inside of you being able to identify what they’re feeling, being able to talk about why they’re feeling the way they are using a lot of things around growth mindset. and, and building their self-esteem and confidence. We also work a lot on helping them understand what their learning difference is and making it not normal. Everybody learns differently. Our brains are wired differently and that’s ok. I think there is a huge sigh of relief that kids will start to feel and we can just be open about it and talk about it. And so we work within the scope of academics, but we also work with other professionals where when it gets to a point where it’s like, oh, this is kind of trickling into the family dynamics and it’s getting even larger and we can help kind of bring in uh more of a, a psychologist or therapist that can kind of work with us as a team to help address even like the larger issues that might be going on.
Frances Shefter: (00:05:12): That’s so great. I love that you talk about bringing in people from the community because it’s such an important thing. And that’s one of the reasons I started up with the show is because there are so many resources out there that parents don’t always know and everything intertwines and connects and like you said,, there might be deeper stuff and you might need a psychologist or you might need somebody that can help teach a family how to communicate with each other because they’ve gotten bad communications.
Deepa Gosal: (00:05:39): Absolutely. I mean, we’ve had so many families come in and they’re just like, we just don’t know where to look, we don’t know where to go and the resources are out there, but it is really overwhelming. Where do you go? So to kind of have a point person to be like, hey, I really think that this is kind of what you need and, and you brought up a great point too. Sometimes it’s helping with the family dynamics, like family counseling, sometimes it’s individual counseling. But if we can put the right supports in place, it’s gonna make such a difference in that child’s life.
Frances Shefter: (00:06:06): And knowing your limitations, knowing it’s ok, that’s one of the things right now that I’ve been stressing or talking about more often is that it’s ok to need help. It’s ok because, our society is like, do it all. We’re wonder woman, we can do everything, you know, we can run a firm, we can, you know, be a mom, cook dinner, be the perfect mom, take cookies and all this stuff and it’s like, you know what, I can’t do it all, but that’s ok.
Deepa Gosal: (00:06:39): Yeah. And that’s such a good point because I even think of my own kids where they’re just like, well, I have to be in this world, I have to be doing this and it’s like, no, you don’t have to be doing it. You need to figure out what it is that makes you happy? And do you want to put your effort into and, and practice into and, and if you make mistakes along the way, that’s ok and, and even to show that we as adults also make mistakes and calling it out, you know, it’s so important for them to see.
Frances Shefter: (00:07:05): Yeah. And I tried to do that often, like with my kids also, it was like, you know, what mom made a mistake and, you know, I switched careers halfway through and, well, I, not even halfway through, I was settled in my teaching career and switched it and that’s ok. I also love showing the children when parents need help and explaining it to them, because I found, you know, at least with my own children and some other children that when they know it’s ok, like mom’s still asking for help and she’s a grown up and it’s ok for me too, so that’s so awesome.
Deepa Gosal: (00:07:40): That’s a good point, I think as parents too, it’s the logical side of us kind of sees this on the outside, but when it’s your own child and you’re in it, it’s so hard to pull your head out and, and just see the bigger picture. And so it’s just so helpful to kind of have this support group and this team to kind of be like, ok, this is what’s going on, let’s take a step back. And that’s part of the therapy too. It’s not just helping the student. We’re also stepping in and helping the families. It’s just such a collaborative effort of what we do here.
Frances Shefter: (00:08:12): Yeah. And I, I say that often with getting IEP supports in place. I’ve had former clients, call me all the time and be like, oh my God, it’s a different child, because we got the right supports or the right placement and it does, it impacts everybody. You know, it’s interesting because I hear what you’re saying that you don’t replace that IEP but you add the extra supports.
Deepa Gosal:(00:08:40): Right. The IEP is there and there will be support. If they have an IEP, then the supports will be in place at school to help provide that support. But then our role is that we also come in where they still need more intensive support. There’s still things that there are gaps that just can’t get filled in during that time and we’re gonna come in and do that and it’s just,something’s just not quite the same as that one on one. And I think we just see so much growth in these kids from where they start and where they end up.
Frances Shefter: (00:9:14): Yeah. We do strategy sessions instead of consultations because the family gets to come talk to an attorney, they’re always with our attorneys now, for an hour and, strategize and there’s definitely been times that I’ve told my clients or potential clients that I can get you a perfect IEP. But where your child is and what your child needs, you need an educational therapist or you need an executive functioning coach. I’m a parent too. Resources are not unlimited. In reality what your child needs is to fill the gaps and the schools just can’t.
Deepa Gosal: (00:9:58): Right. Yeah, they can’t. Exactly. It’s just too much and I think that’s when parents really start coming towards us, they’ve tried everything and it’s like they just know that it’s just not enough.
Frances Shefter: (00:10:13): No. And that’s so important because it’s our kids, and it’s just frustrating because we want to trust the school system. We want to make sure the school is doing, but schools are overloaded, Yes, they’re supposed to implement the IEPs and they’re supposed to, but it’s not the one-on-one and it’s not, they can’t go back. If your child is struggling with basic multiplication facts and they’re in middle school now.. They’re not gonna go back and teach the basic multiplication facts because if you were even to put that in an IEP, then you’re pulling the child out and they’re missing the new content and which just messes everything up, just keep falling back in different ways. So bringing you in that’s awesome. And I love it. So you said you bring in other professionals, do they work in the same company or do you have a network? How does that work?
Deepa Gosal: (00:11:13): So we have a network and definitely there’s other professionals in the area or even across the US where there’s speech therapists, occupational therapists and sometimes families already have them and our role is to really work with them and be like, OK, well, what is it that you guys are working on? How can we help you? So that it’s kind of a seamless process that we’re all kind of working on things. For example, you know, we’ve had kids where they’re getting OT and they’re getting help on handwriting and that might be something we can also kind of extend out during our work with the child. And sometimes it’s just that communication piece of like is this child ready to graduate out of the service? Have they made enough progress? And then what’s the next step?. We want to always be working towards more and more progress.
Frances Shefter: (00:12:02): Right. That’s great that you have the network because that’s part of the reason of the show is get people out there and, let families know, because I still have clients, people that call and they’re like, wait, did you do that for a living?
Deepa Gosal: (00:12:20): You know, it is so true. I get that all the time. They’re like, you, you’re a what? And, and it’s always so funny because I’m like, ok, well, I need to explain what this is and most of the time people don’t know what an educational therapist is until they have their own child. Go see, maybe a neuropsych or go through, see a pediatrician. But yeah, so there’s definitely still more educating to be done on what it is and what our role is.
Frances Shefter: (00:12:44): Right. And that’s if the psychologist and, or pediatrician recommend an educational therapist because they don’t always, unfortunately. That’s so important because there’s so many resources out there for our families that they don’t know and especially families that it’s new to them. I mean, new parenting to begin with. We’re all overwhelmed but what do we do? And then if you get a diagnosis or you notice your child’s behind,, now, where do I go? What do I do?
Deepa Gosal:(00:13:19): And there’s so much just coming to terms with what that means, I think for parents, like, what, what do, what does this mean? And kind of coping with what that means and that it’s not the end that there’s so much there that we could put in place and things will work out great. You know, as long as those supports are there
Frances Shefter: (00:13:43): I wanna go back to you. I think you said, about teaching the child about things and you know, when my daughter’s getting assessed, she’s like, why do I have to do this? And I’m like, we’re just gonna figure out how your brain works because everybody’s brain works differently. So now she’s excited to do it because, you know, it’s not you’re behind, you’re this, let’s see how your brain works. So we can figure out how to meet your needs better. And so I know you said you read evaluations, but what if a family, they know something’s up. Their kid might be in private school or home schooled or just something’s going on that they need help. What are the signs they’re looking at that to know, like, oh, I need to call an educational therapist right now.
Deepa Gosal: (00:14:33): Yeah, absolutely. There’s lots of different things you can look at, depending on what, academically. But, we’ve had kids, families come in where it’s like, you know what? They’re just not picking up their word, a letter recognition, letter, sound recognition, they’re not able to identify the sounds that go with the letters from an early age starting there. Some kids will read something and they will not have any idea what they just read. Other kids you’ll still see the fine motor issues where the handwriting is really struggling and there you could tell their hands are getting tired. Spelling is a huge one. It’s kind of, you know, people say it’s a window into kind of their, their learning and their reading, right. If they’re making a lot of errors with their spelling, that’s an indication that there might be going on something with their reading abilities. And then as kids get older, there is a lot of kids, we see where they’re able to have these great compensation skills and get through for a really long time and middle school will hit and we will get so many kids coming in and they’re like, we don’t know what to do. And that’s when you see the executive function issues of being able to initiate task and break things down, and even for some kids, just a lot of writing too. I don’t know how to start this writing assignment. So there’s a lot of things you can kind of look for and especially, , if you’re not seeing them making that same level of progress and it’s been going on. Early intervention is so important the sooner we get that help, the better.
Frances Shefter: (00:16:10): Yeah, I hate, you know, schools would be like, well, let’s wait and see. Let’s wait a couple of weeks. I’m like, let’s not.
Deepa Gosal: (00:16:17): I think there’s this whole mentality of let’s give them time, it’ll work itself out and it’s like, no, we want to solve these issues now before it starts to snowball and turn into something more.
Frances Shefter: (00:16:30): And then it turns into the self confidence level. I know you talked about the spelling and there’s an article out there about my story, I was a bad speller and I read slower. My comprehension was low and I didn’t think I was smart because of it. You know, I didn’t think I was smart enough to go to law school. You know, and so I went a different career and so that’s a lot of the reason of why I do what I do because I don’t want other children to feel that way. It’s like so what, you’re a bad speller? Ok. And that doesn’t mean you’re not smart, but that’s how our society puts it. Like, if you’re not, you know, reading, writing, math.
Deepa Gosal:(00:17:10): And you had such a good point there, it’s that confidence piece too, right? The academics are so important. Yes, but we’re really working on these kids to build back their self-esteem it is so crucial because I find if we spend enough time on building back their confidence in understanding their learning and having really honest conversations about this, kids are more willing to engage them and we find that they’re able to make so much more progress because they are just more open to the idea of getting this kind of help.
Frances Shefter: (00:17:46): And I see, the kids when they understand it and know why they need the help and stuff. It takes the, the negative stigma out of it used to be like, yeah, I am so I need help and not the the don’t talk about it.
Deepa Gosal: (00:18:9): It is. Yeah.
Frances Shefter: (00:18:11): When a family comes to you if there aren’t assessments, what’s the process, what happens first?
Deepa Gosal: (00:18:18): Yeah. So in my practice, what we do is I always do just a free initial consultation and that’s a great way to observe the student to kind of see what are their attention levels? What is there something, am I noticing something in their writing in the way they read?. And then taking that into context with what the parents have told me when we’ve discussed our learning. And then I get a better picture of what I think this is kind of where we need to start digging in and where we need to look. And so when families start with us, we always do some in informal assessments. But the more we work with kids and dig in, we’re able to pinpoint those areas and say, we’re seeing that these are kind of the target areas we need to start with and we want to really focus in on those and then we’re always coming back and reevaluating and saying, ok we’ve seen progress. What’s the next step?. So that’s, that’s kind of how the process works within therapy.
Frances Shefter: (00:19:15): So it’s individualized. It’s not because there’s all these tutoring places out there, which I’m not knocking at all because I’ve heard great things like Kumon, I think is the biggest one right now. But they have specific programs. It’s not as individualized from what I understand.
Deepa Gosal: (00:19:29): Yeah. So all those programs have their place. They benefit students in their own ways. But I think that what therapy does is very individualized. It’s really focused on that specific child and what they are, what they’re needing. And we draw from evidence based curriculums that work for kids who have learning differences and we really try to go in and, and look at the whole child and what they need.
Frances Shefter: (00:20:00): I just realized I didn’t go into you a lot. How did you get into it? What’s your story? What’s your backstory?
Deepa Gosal: (00:20:06): Yeah. I started in special education. I actually, I was a reading specialist. I worked with kids, one-on-one. And then I also became a special education teacher, a resource teacher. I worked in public schools for over 10 years. I worked in private independent schools and I loved my time with the kids. I did, but I did realize that the system felt broken and I went in because I realized the part I loved was working with the kids. I love seeing the progress. I loved going in and analyzing what we need to do here to make improvements. But I wasn’t always able to do that because these districts are so impacted and you’re pulled in so many directions. And so after I had my kids, I started working with kids and I discovered a therapy and I’m like, oh my God, this is what I’m doing. I wanna be an educational therapist and ever since then I’ve been working on it on my own and then when we were out here it was just me and now there’s about eight of us and there’s such a huge need for this. And it’s been wild. It’s been great.
Frances Shefter: (00:21:18): And I’ve, I’ve seen the growth also of the therapy. I think I’ve had a couple on my show, but what I love about it is that even though I have the same profession, all of you have different stories and different areas of specialty. Is there a specific disability or type of child that you work with or? I know probably general. Is there one like this is my jam?
Deepa Gosal: (00:21:48): Yeah. So it really depends, some educational therapists have more of a broad scope and they kind of work with kids with varying disabilities, differences, learning differences and needs and there’s others who really focus in on areas where they might be math specialists or focus primarily on dyslexia. In our practice, it varies. We have people who really focus on writing, some who focus on dyslexia. Others are executive function coaches on the team. For me personally, I had a little broader of a range. I went from elementary all the way to even high school, but I focused a lot on reading and writing as well as executive function skills. So that’s kind of really been my wheel house where I really love to work. I would say my favorite is working with those middle school ages. So that’s kind of been my jam.
Frances Shefter: (00:22:44): I’ve taught elementary school, middle school and high school and the other day I’m trying to remember what we were talking, we were talking about something and I made the comment of I would clean bathrooms before I’d go back into middle school and I don’t clean, anybody that knows me, knows I don’t clean.. It’s great that that’s what you love. You know what I mean? Because if not the whole little middle school area is gonna fall apart.
Deepa Gosal: (00:23:15): I think I just love it because they’re getting into their personalities. There’s a little bit of sarcasm developing. They have, really strong opinions, but it isn’t for the fainthearted, not everybody wants to work with that age range. And I get it.
Frances Shefter: (00:23:32): It’s probably different. You’re one-on-one. It’s not the whole. Although the hormones and the emotions.
Deepa Gosal: (00:23:39):There is definitely more layers of those kinds of things that come into play at that age, for sure.
Frances Shefter: (00:23:47): Yeah. Yeah. You were talking about your team? So when, if somebody comes to you, are they with one therapist or do they kind of work with the whole team? What does that look like?
Deepa Gosal: (00:24:03): Yeah, that’s a great question. So for our particular practice, you basically have a case manager who is with you for that year, for the school calendar year and we try to really make sure that that stays the case, right? Because they’re gonna know you best and they’re gonna really be able to kind of see what it is that you need and get to know you, right? And you build that relationship that those kids need. However, we do have kids where it’s kind of like, oh wow, you did so good, you made so much progress, but then maybe this other issue arises where it’s like, oh now they’re working on writing and they’re really struggling with that and they might be like, oh, well, there’s someone else on the team who could actually be a really great fit for that. And then we have families where they are ready to graduate and go out on their own and they might come back years later for whatever different reason. So that’s how it works. We really try to, maintain one relationship throughout the school year.
Frances Shefter: (00:25:02): That’s great because I was thinking like, oh, I’m gonna bounce around with therapists and now you’ve got to totally meet somebody new. So, having the case manager because it brings it all together.
Deepa Gosal: (00:25:16): It does, it does looking at the whole child that consistency piece is so important for everybody.
Frances Shefter: (00:25:27): And then the question that we get all of the time since COVID is virtual, does it work? Can you do what you do virtually?
Deepa Gosal: (00:25:36): That is a great question. It’s a yes and no. But I would say yes. Well, the thing with virtual learning is after the pandemic. It was crazy. There were 30 kids, it was online, they didn’t have the platforms, school districts didn’t have the resources. So I think it’s created a lot of stigma where I have a lot of parents who will come and say no virtual learning just does not work for my child. And I’m like, ok, let’s see if that’s really the case, right? Because of the pandemic, though a lot of positives have come out, there is so much material and online resources and curriculums are designed for kids with learning differences that have been created virtually, right? So there’s all these games, interactive videos, things that can kind of pull it all together. So for me, I always say have an initial consultation with me and that’s a chance for me to observe, to see if this is a good fit virtually for the student. And we found in a lot of cases it can be because it’s targeted, it’s individualized, there’s always a level of predictability because it’s sequenced and building on each other each lesson. So the kids feel much more engaged and, and comfortable. And so I think it can actually be a really great fit for a lot of kids. But again, it really depends and we also also take into account what their attentional levels are, right? Are they able to kind of sit for that time period and can we make it engaging enough where they can, so it can definitely work for a lot of kids.
Frances Shefter: (00:27:14): And I, I think as the parent what I love about virtual is I don’t have to drive all over the place. You know, it’s like, oh, I gotta get in the car and drive.
Deepa Gosal: (00:27:26): So many activities, so much going on. And, you know, the other great thing too is there are so many parts just around the US where families don’t have access to a therapist, they don’t have access to these resources depending on where they’re at. And this virtual platform has opened it up to so many families where they wouldn’t be able to get this kind of help and now they’re able to get that kind of help.
Frances Shefter: (00:27:49): Yeah. And that’s why our law firm is expanding nationwide because, you know, you don’t have to be an attorney to be an advocate. And I have the education background. So does my associate and we’re Special Ed teachers. So we have that advocacy piece because we always get that. And so, there are so many parts of the country that have even less smaller areas, right? So I can see how helpful that is. Do you have in person if people want in person.
Deepa Gosal: (00:28:25): Yes, we do have a location here in the Bay Area. So we’re in person and we also, like I said, work virtually with kids as well.
Frances Shefter: (00:28:38): With educational therapy is they’re licensing.
Deepa Gosal: (00:28:42): Yes. So the Association of Educational Therapists, you can get licensed through them and that’s a great website to check out www.atonline.org. I had to go through our practicum at a mentorship. There’s a whole certification process for people to get certified, so it is a really fantastic program if you’re looking to get into this.
Frances Shefter: (00:29:9): But you’re licensed in general, it’s not state specific.
Deepa Gosal: (00:29:12): No, I’m licensed in general. Yeah.
Frances Shefter: (00:29:14): Yeah, that’s nice. That’s nice because I know there’s a lot and with COVID there was a lot with the virtual, like, you know, we can’t practice in other states. But is it considering practicing in another state if we’re here and they’re, you know.
Deepa Gosal: (00:29:27): And the same thing happens with teaching credentials, which makes hard because it’s like, here’s a really qualified teacher. But then it’s like, but you’ve got a license in California and, with that therapy it’s not state specific, you know.
Frances Shefter: (00:29:40): Then its focus is on any curriculum. This has been so awesome and like I said, learning from different people so much, so many different areas and so many different ways that they can work. So you said you have the team, so people would come and they would get a case manager. And then the team and then if needed you bring in outside support.
Deepa Gosal: (00:30:05): Yes. We work one-on-one, I would determine what the kind of plan is for the student and I would determine who’s gonna be the best fit on the team and they would have that case manager. And then we would again do regular check-ins. We would be collaborating with any outside staff and if we saw other things come up along the way where it’s like, I think we need to really address this. We would work with the families to kind of bring in other people from within our network to help put those supports in place.
Frances Shefter: (00:30:34): And I’m assuming you work with the schools as well?
Deepa Gosal: (00:30:36): Yeah, we really do try to collaborate with the schools. We really want to try to build a positive environment where we can be like, ok. And that’s part of it, the schools are impacted and our role is to be like, hey, remember he needs this, these are his accommodations, can we make sure that these are being put in place? And we found that there are a lot of districts who are really willing to work with us, which is fantastic. And unfortunately, there are some cases where you know what should be put in place isn’t being put in place.
Frances Shefter (00:31:10): That’s where I come in.
Deepa Gosal: (00:31:12):Yes. And that’s where you come in and that’s the thing. It’s just so great to have people like you advocating for these families who really don’t know where to go.
Frances Shefter: (00:31:20): Yeah. No. And that’s, I mean, that’s part of the show on my YouTube channel. I have over 100 videos to educate and that’s the whole point. And I love that you say it’s focused on the child, but the whole child, including relationships in the whole family, right? So important. This has been so awesome. This has been so great. Thank you so much. So, how can people get in touch with you?
Deepa Gosal: (00:31:45): Yes, so please. That would be great. My website is www.learningtreecoach.com. There is a contact form on there. You can fill out, you can also email me at deepa@learningtreecoach.com. And like I said, we were virtually with kids all across the United States. We also have in the Bay Area in person services. And again, like I said, I’m always willing to be there to help families and put them in contact with the right resources if they need some guidance
Frances Shefter: (00:32:18): And all of the links will be in the show notes below. And then I think you had somebody you wanted to give a shout out to.
Deepa Gosal: (00:32:26): Oh yes. Oh, I almost forgot about that. But Lindsay Teitelbaum and she is at Spirited Play in San Ramon. An excellent resource that you guys can reach out to and she works with the younger ones on child play therapy and she’s a great resource here as well for a lot of families and just in general.
Frances Shefter: (00:32:49): Great. Thank you so much. I have not had a play therapist on yet. So I’m definitely gonna be reaching out to her.
Deepa Gosal: (00:32:54): Absolutely.
Frances Shefter: (00:32:56): So thank you so much. This has been wonderful.
Deepa Gosal: (00:33:00): Thank you. This was great. Just being able to talk to someone else in the field and just talk about how we’re working and trying to help these families out.
VOICEOVER: (00:33:10): You’ve been listening to Stress-Free IEP® with your host, Frances Shefter. Remember you do not need to do it all alone. You can reach Frances through www.shefterlaw.com where prior episodes are also posted. Thank you for your positive reviews, comments and sharing the show with others through YouTube, LinkedIn Apple podcast, Spotify, Google Podcast, Stitcher, and more.
Stress-Free IEP® with Frances Shefter and Deepa Gosal
In this episode of Stress-Free IEP®, Frances Shefter speaks with Deepa Gosal, Educational Therapist and owner of Learning Tree Coach.
Deepa is an experienced Education Therapist with a demonstrated history of working in the education management industry. Deepa is skilled in Educational Assessment, Differentiated Instruction, Curriculum Development, Teaching, and Education.
The Learning Tree Coach is a collection of educational therapists assisting students diagnosed with Executive Function Challenges, Dyslexia, ADD/ADHD, Dysgraphia, and Dyscalculia, among other learning differences. They offer research-driven support, employing systematic, explicit, and sequential methods along with multi-sensory curricula and techniques.
Tune in to the episode to hear about:
Learn more about Deepa Gosal:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/deepa-gosal-ma-et-p-c-slct-5aa1503/
Website: http://www.learningtreecoach.com
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/learningtreecoach/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/learntreecoach/
Email: deepa@learningtreecoach.com
Tel: 925-385-8779
Additional Resources: https://spiritedplaylabs.com/
Stress-Free IEP®:
Frances Shefter is an Education Attorney and Advocate who is committed to helping her clients have a Stress-Free IEP® experience. In each podcast, Frances interviews inspiring people to share information, educate you, empower you and help you get the knowledge you need.
Watch more episodes of Stress-Free IEP®:
https://shefterlaw.com/blog
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCff0foIeCETrWbtsQSDwckQ
Connect and learn more from your host, Frances Shefter:
FULL TRANSCRIPT:
VOICEOVER (00:00:01): Welcome to Stress-Free IEP®. You do not need to do it all alone with your host, Frances Shefter, Principal of Shefter Law. You can get more details and catch prior episodes at www.shefterlaw.com. The Stress-Free IEP® video podcast is also posted on YouTube and LinkedIn and you can listen to episodes through Apple podcast, Spotify, Google podcast, Stitcher and more. Now, here’s the host of Stress-Free IEP®. Frances Shefter.
Frances Shefter (00:00:38): Hello everyone and welcome to the show. Today’s special guest is Deepa Gosal. I got it right. She’s out in California. And her company is Learning Tree Coach. Deepa, you’re an educational therapist, right? So what is educational therapy?
Deepa Gosal: (00:01:04): Great question. Let me take a minute to kind of explain this. How we differ from a tutor is, the tutoring and educational therapy both have their place and tutoring is the reinforcement of concepts helping with homework, helping kids get through what they’re currently working on. Whereas educational therapy is a little more complicated and layered. There’s a couple of components that we kind of work on. One is remediation and we work a lot with kids. We primarily work with kids with learning differences or where we suspect more is going on. And what that involves is we will go back and read through their assessments if assessments have been done or do our own informal assessments to look at. Where are the gaps in their learning? What are things that they missed along the way that we got to go back and fill in? Because otherwise, as we’re moving forward, all we’re doing is putting a bandaid on it and we’re not solving what the underlying issue is. And so that’s one of the aspects of it. The second part is we do a lot of strategy building, helping kids understand how to break things down, using tools that are gonna work for them and their learning style to kind of achieve what they need to achieve and, and get towards a place where they, they feel like they’re working towards some sort of mastery, right? Then another part which is really interesting, I think is the whole term of educational therapist. There is this therapy side of what we do. We work a lot on the social emotional element that kids experience when they have a learning challenge in the scope of academics, right? Actually, I know these statistics change but I know that kids with ADHD are 32% more likely to have anxiety. 16% more likely to have depression as well as kids with dyslexia. I think it’s like 20% more likely to have anxiety as well as depression, right? So, we really wanna kind of be there for them and help them understand what’s going on and what are you feeling and how can you be an advocate and understand your learning style?
Frances Shefter: (00:03:20): That’s so awesome because it’s true. I say it all the time and even our SD or our kids on the spectrum, it’s so often I see the diagnosis, SD ADHD anxiety and it’s all intertwined which is pushing me more and more. I hate labels. I’ve always hated labels to begin with and everybody always says, well, the code doesn’t matter, it doesn’t drive services, but reality check when somebody picks up an IEP and it says emotional disability that triggers behavior issues in their head, right? And they don’t think of our kids with anxiety that internalize. So how do you help kids? When you go with the kids with anxiety, what techniques do you use? Because I’m assuming you’re not a therapist in the sense of social work therapy?
Deepa Gosal: (00:04:10): No. It’s within the scope of academics of like, you have this homework assignment coming up. But what feelings is that bringing up inside of you being able to identify what they’re feeling, being able to talk about why they’re feeling the way they are using a lot of things around growth mindset. and, and building their self-esteem and confidence. We also work a lot on helping them understand what their learning difference is and making it not normal. Everybody learns differently. Our brains are wired differently and that’s ok. I think there is a huge sigh of relief that kids will start to feel and we can just be open about it and talk about it. And so we work within the scope of academics, but we also work with other professionals where when it gets to a point where it’s like, oh, this is kind of trickling into the family dynamics and it’s getting even larger and we can help kind of bring in uh more of a, a psychologist or therapist that can kind of work with us as a team to help address even like the larger issues that might be going on.
Frances Shefter: (00:05:12): That’s so great. I love that you talk about bringing in people from the community because it’s such an important thing. And that’s one of the reasons I started up with the show is because there are so many resources out there that parents don’t always know and everything intertwines and connects and like you said,, there might be deeper stuff and you might need a psychologist or you might need somebody that can help teach a family how to communicate with each other because they’ve gotten bad communications.
Deepa Gosal: (00:05:39): Absolutely. I mean, we’ve had so many families come in and they’re just like, we just don’t know where to look, we don’t know where to go and the resources are out there, but it is really overwhelming. Where do you go? So to kind of have a point person to be like, hey, I really think that this is kind of what you need and, and you brought up a great point too. Sometimes it’s helping with the family dynamics, like family counseling, sometimes it’s individual counseling. But if we can put the right supports in place, it’s gonna make such a difference in that child’s life.
Frances Shefter: (00:06:06): And knowing your limitations, knowing it’s ok, that’s one of the things right now that I’ve been stressing or talking about more often is that it’s ok to need help. It’s ok because, our society is like, do it all. We’re wonder woman, we can do everything, you know, we can run a firm, we can, you know, be a mom, cook dinner, be the perfect mom, take cookies and all this stuff and it’s like, you know what, I can’t do it all, but that’s ok.
Deepa Gosal: (00:06:39): Yeah. And that’s such a good point because I even think of my own kids where they’re just like, well, I have to be in this world, I have to be doing this and it’s like, no, you don’t have to be doing it. You need to figure out what it is that makes you happy? And do you want to put your effort into and, and practice into and, and if you make mistakes along the way, that’s ok and, and even to show that we as adults also make mistakes and calling it out, you know, it’s so important for them to see.
Frances Shefter: (00:07:05): Yeah. And I tried to do that often, like with my kids also, it was like, you know, what mom made a mistake and, you know, I switched careers halfway through and, well, I, not even halfway through, I was settled in my teaching career and switched it and that’s ok. I also love showing the children when parents need help and explaining it to them, because I found, you know, at least with my own children and some other children that when they know it’s ok, like mom’s still asking for help and she’s a grown up and it’s ok for me too, so that’s so awesome.
Deepa Gosal: (00:07:40): That’s a good point, I think as parents too, it’s the logical side of us kind of sees this on the outside, but when it’s your own child and you’re in it, it’s so hard to pull your head out and, and just see the bigger picture. And so it’s just so helpful to kind of have this support group and this team to kind of be like, ok, this is what’s going on, let’s take a step back. And that’s part of the therapy too. It’s not just helping the student. We’re also stepping in and helping the families. It’s just such a collaborative effort of what we do here.
Frances Shefter: (00:08:12): Yeah. And I, I say that often with getting IEP supports in place. I’ve had former clients, call me all the time and be like, oh my God, it’s a different child, because we got the right supports or the right placement and it does, it impacts everybody. You know, it’s interesting because I hear what you’re saying that you don’t replace that IEP but you add the extra supports.
Deepa Gosal:(00:08:40): Right. The IEP is there and there will be support. If they have an IEP, then the supports will be in place at school to help provide that support. But then our role is that we also come in where they still need more intensive support. There’s still things that there are gaps that just can’t get filled in during that time and we’re gonna come in and do that and it’s just,something’s just not quite the same as that one on one. And I think we just see so much growth in these kids from where they start and where they end up.
Frances Shefter: (00:9:14): Yeah. We do strategy sessions instead of consultations because the family gets to come talk to an attorney, they’re always with our attorneys now, for an hour and, strategize and there’s definitely been times that I’ve told my clients or potential clients that I can get you a perfect IEP. But where your child is and what your child needs, you need an educational therapist or you need an executive functioning coach. I’m a parent too. Resources are not unlimited. In reality what your child needs is to fill the gaps and the schools just can’t.
Deepa Gosal: (00:9:58): Right. Yeah, they can’t. Exactly. It’s just too much and I think that’s when parents really start coming towards us, they’ve tried everything and it’s like they just know that it’s just not enough.
Frances Shefter: (00:10:13): No. And that’s so important because it’s our kids, and it’s just frustrating because we want to trust the school system. We want to make sure the school is doing, but schools are overloaded, Yes, they’re supposed to implement the IEPs and they’re supposed to, but it’s not the one-on-one and it’s not, they can’t go back. If your child is struggling with basic multiplication facts and they’re in middle school now.. They’re not gonna go back and teach the basic multiplication facts because if you were even to put that in an IEP, then you’re pulling the child out and they’re missing the new content and which just messes everything up, just keep falling back in different ways. So bringing you in that’s awesome. And I love it. So you said you bring in other professionals, do they work in the same company or do you have a network? How does that work?
Deepa Gosal: (00:11:13): So we have a network and definitely there’s other professionals in the area or even across the US where there’s speech therapists, occupational therapists and sometimes families already have them and our role is to really work with them and be like, OK, well, what is it that you guys are working on? How can we help you? So that it’s kind of a seamless process that we’re all kind of working on things. For example, you know, we’ve had kids where they’re getting OT and they’re getting help on handwriting and that might be something we can also kind of extend out during our work with the child. And sometimes it’s just that communication piece of like is this child ready to graduate out of the service? Have they made enough progress? And then what’s the next step?. We want to always be working towards more and more progress.
Frances Shefter: (00:12:02): Right. That’s great that you have the network because that’s part of the reason of the show is get people out there and, let families know, because I still have clients, people that call and they’re like, wait, did you do that for a living?
Deepa Gosal: (00:12:20): You know, it is so true. I get that all the time. They’re like, you, you’re a what? And, and it’s always so funny because I’m like, ok, well, I need to explain what this is and most of the time people don’t know what an educational therapist is until they have their own child. Go see, maybe a neuropsych or go through, see a pediatrician. But yeah, so there’s definitely still more educating to be done on what it is and what our role is.
Frances Shefter: (00:12:44): Right. And that’s if the psychologist and, or pediatrician recommend an educational therapist because they don’t always, unfortunately. That’s so important because there’s so many resources out there for our families that they don’t know and especially families that it’s new to them. I mean, new parenting to begin with. We’re all overwhelmed but what do we do? And then if you get a diagnosis or you notice your child’s behind,, now, where do I go? What do I do?
Deepa Gosal:(00:13:19): And there’s so much just coming to terms with what that means, I think for parents, like, what, what do, what does this mean? And kind of coping with what that means and that it’s not the end that there’s so much there that we could put in place and things will work out great. You know, as long as those supports are there
Frances Shefter: (00:13:43): I wanna go back to you. I think you said, about teaching the child about things and you know, when my daughter’s getting assessed, she’s like, why do I have to do this? And I’m like, we’re just gonna figure out how your brain works because everybody’s brain works differently. So now she’s excited to do it because, you know, it’s not you’re behind, you’re this, let’s see how your brain works. So we can figure out how to meet your needs better. And so I know you said you read evaluations, but what if a family, they know something’s up. Their kid might be in private school or home schooled or just something’s going on that they need help. What are the signs they’re looking at that to know, like, oh, I need to call an educational therapist right now.
Deepa Gosal: (00:14:33): Yeah, absolutely. There’s lots of different things you can look at, depending on what, academically. But, we’ve had kids, families come in where it’s like, you know what? They’re just not picking up their word, a letter recognition, letter, sound recognition, they’re not able to identify the sounds that go with the letters from an early age starting there. Some kids will read something and they will not have any idea what they just read. Other kids you’ll still see the fine motor issues where the handwriting is really struggling and there you could tell their hands are getting tired. Spelling is a huge one. It’s kind of, you know, people say it’s a window into kind of their, their learning and their reading, right. If they’re making a lot of errors with their spelling, that’s an indication that there might be going on something with their reading abilities. And then as kids get older, there is a lot of kids, we see where they’re able to have these great compensation skills and get through for a really long time and middle school will hit and we will get so many kids coming in and they’re like, we don’t know what to do. And that’s when you see the executive function issues of being able to initiate task and break things down, and even for some kids, just a lot of writing too. I don’t know how to start this writing assignment. So there’s a lot of things you can kind of look for and especially, , if you’re not seeing them making that same level of progress and it’s been going on. Early intervention is so important the sooner we get that help, the better.
Frances Shefter: (00:16:10): Yeah, I hate, you know, schools would be like, well, let’s wait and see. Let’s wait a couple of weeks. I’m like, let’s not.
Deepa Gosal: (00:16:17): I think there’s this whole mentality of let’s give them time, it’ll work itself out and it’s like, no, we want to solve these issues now before it starts to snowball and turn into something more.
Frances Shefter: (00:16:30): And then it turns into the self confidence level. I know you talked about the spelling and there’s an article out there about my story, I was a bad speller and I read slower. My comprehension was low and I didn’t think I was smart because of it. You know, I didn’t think I was smart enough to go to law school. You know, and so I went a different career and so that’s a lot of the reason of why I do what I do because I don’t want other children to feel that way. It’s like so what, you’re a bad speller? Ok. And that doesn’t mean you’re not smart, but that’s how our society puts it. Like, if you’re not, you know, reading, writing, math.
Deepa Gosal:(00:17:10): And you had such a good point there, it’s that confidence piece too, right? The academics are so important. Yes, but we’re really working on these kids to build back their self-esteem it is so crucial because I find if we spend enough time on building back their confidence in understanding their learning and having really honest conversations about this, kids are more willing to engage them and we find that they’re able to make so much more progress because they are just more open to the idea of getting this kind of help.
Frances Shefter: (00:17:46): And I see, the kids when they understand it and know why they need the help and stuff. It takes the, the negative stigma out of it used to be like, yeah, I am so I need help and not the the don’t talk about it.
Deepa Gosal: (00:18:9): It is. Yeah.
Frances Shefter: (00:18:11): When a family comes to you if there aren’t assessments, what’s the process, what happens first?
Deepa Gosal: (00:18:18): Yeah. So in my practice, what we do is I always do just a free initial consultation and that’s a great way to observe the student to kind of see what are their attention levels? What is there something, am I noticing something in their writing in the way they read?. And then taking that into context with what the parents have told me when we’ve discussed our learning. And then I get a better picture of what I think this is kind of where we need to start digging in and where we need to look. And so when families start with us, we always do some in informal assessments. But the more we work with kids and dig in, we’re able to pinpoint those areas and say, we’re seeing that these are kind of the target areas we need to start with and we want to really focus in on those and then we’re always coming back and reevaluating and saying, ok we’ve seen progress. What’s the next step?. So that’s, that’s kind of how the process works within therapy.
Frances Shefter: (00:19:15): So it’s individualized. It’s not because there’s all these tutoring places out there, which I’m not knocking at all because I’ve heard great things like Kumon, I think is the biggest one right now. But they have specific programs. It’s not as individualized from what I understand.
Deepa Gosal: (00:19:29): Yeah. So all those programs have their place. They benefit students in their own ways. But I think that what therapy does is very individualized. It’s really focused on that specific child and what they are, what they’re needing. And we draw from evidence based curriculums that work for kids who have learning differences and we really try to go in and, and look at the whole child and what they need.
Frances Shefter: (00:20:00): I just realized I didn’t go into you a lot. How did you get into it? What’s your story? What’s your backstory?
Deepa Gosal: (00:20:06): Yeah. I started in special education. I actually, I was a reading specialist. I worked with kids, one-on-one. And then I also became a special education teacher, a resource teacher. I worked in public schools for over 10 years. I worked in private independent schools and I loved my time with the kids. I did, but I did realize that the system felt broken and I went in because I realized the part I loved was working with the kids. I love seeing the progress. I loved going in and analyzing what we need to do here to make improvements. But I wasn’t always able to do that because these districts are so impacted and you’re pulled in so many directions. And so after I had my kids, I started working with kids and I discovered a therapy and I’m like, oh my God, this is what I’m doing. I wanna be an educational therapist and ever since then I’ve been working on it on my own and then when we were out here it was just me and now there’s about eight of us and there’s such a huge need for this. And it’s been wild. It’s been great.
Frances Shefter: (00:21:18): And I’ve, I’ve seen the growth also of the therapy. I think I’ve had a couple on my show, but what I love about it is that even though I have the same profession, all of you have different stories and different areas of specialty. Is there a specific disability or type of child that you work with or? I know probably general. Is there one like this is my jam?
Deepa Gosal: (00:21:48): Yeah. So it really depends, some educational therapists have more of a broad scope and they kind of work with kids with varying disabilities, differences, learning differences and needs and there’s others who really focus in on areas where they might be math specialists or focus primarily on dyslexia. In our practice, it varies. We have people who really focus on writing, some who focus on dyslexia. Others are executive function coaches on the team. For me personally, I had a little broader of a range. I went from elementary all the way to even high school, but I focused a lot on reading and writing as well as executive function skills. So that’s kind of really been my wheel house where I really love to work. I would say my favorite is working with those middle school ages. So that’s kind of been my jam.
Frances Shefter: (00:22:44): I’ve taught elementary school, middle school and high school and the other day I’m trying to remember what we were talking, we were talking about something and I made the comment of I would clean bathrooms before I’d go back into middle school and I don’t clean, anybody that knows me, knows I don’t clean.. It’s great that that’s what you love. You know what I mean? Because if not the whole little middle school area is gonna fall apart.
Deepa Gosal: (00:23:15): I think I just love it because they’re getting into their personalities. There’s a little bit of sarcasm developing. They have, really strong opinions, but it isn’t for the fainthearted, not everybody wants to work with that age range. And I get it.
Frances Shefter: (00:23:32): It’s probably different. You’re one-on-one. It’s not the whole. Although the hormones and the emotions.
Deepa Gosal: (00:23:39):There is definitely more layers of those kinds of things that come into play at that age, for sure.
Frances Shefter: (00:23:47): Yeah. Yeah. You were talking about your team? So when, if somebody comes to you, are they with one therapist or do they kind of work with the whole team? What does that look like?
Deepa Gosal: (00:24:03): Yeah, that’s a great question. So for our particular practice, you basically have a case manager who is with you for that year, for the school calendar year and we try to really make sure that that stays the case, right? Because they’re gonna know you best and they’re gonna really be able to kind of see what it is that you need and get to know you, right? And you build that relationship that those kids need. However, we do have kids where it’s kind of like, oh wow, you did so good, you made so much progress, but then maybe this other issue arises where it’s like, oh now they’re working on writing and they’re really struggling with that and they might be like, oh, well, there’s someone else on the team who could actually be a really great fit for that. And then we have families where they are ready to graduate and go out on their own and they might come back years later for whatever different reason. So that’s how it works. We really try to, maintain one relationship throughout the school year.
Frances Shefter: (00:25:02): That’s great because I was thinking like, oh, I’m gonna bounce around with therapists and now you’ve got to totally meet somebody new. So, having the case manager because it brings it all together.
Deepa Gosal: (00:25:16): It does, it does looking at the whole child that consistency piece is so important for everybody.
Frances Shefter: (00:25:27): And then the question that we get all of the time since COVID is virtual, does it work? Can you do what you do virtually?
Deepa Gosal: (00:25:36): That is a great question. It’s a yes and no. But I would say yes. Well, the thing with virtual learning is after the pandemic. It was crazy. There were 30 kids, it was online, they didn’t have the platforms, school districts didn’t have the resources. So I think it’s created a lot of stigma where I have a lot of parents who will come and say no virtual learning just does not work for my child. And I’m like, ok, let’s see if that’s really the case, right? Because of the pandemic, though a lot of positives have come out, there is so much material and online resources and curriculums are designed for kids with learning differences that have been created virtually, right? So there’s all these games, interactive videos, things that can kind of pull it all together. So for me, I always say have an initial consultation with me and that’s a chance for me to observe, to see if this is a good fit virtually for the student. And we found in a lot of cases it can be because it’s targeted, it’s individualized, there’s always a level of predictability because it’s sequenced and building on each other each lesson. So the kids feel much more engaged and, and comfortable. And so I think it can actually be a really great fit for a lot of kids. But again, it really depends and we also also take into account what their attentional levels are, right? Are they able to kind of sit for that time period and can we make it engaging enough where they can, so it can definitely work for a lot of kids.
Frances Shefter: (00:27:14): And I, I think as the parent what I love about virtual is I don’t have to drive all over the place. You know, it’s like, oh, I gotta get in the car and drive.
Deepa Gosal: (00:27:26): So many activities, so much going on. And, you know, the other great thing too is there are so many parts just around the US where families don’t have access to a therapist, they don’t have access to these resources depending on where they’re at. And this virtual platform has opened it up to so many families where they wouldn’t be able to get this kind of help and now they’re able to get that kind of help.
Frances Shefter: (00:27:49): Yeah. And that’s why our law firm is expanding nationwide because, you know, you don’t have to be an attorney to be an advocate. And I have the education background. So does my associate and we’re Special Ed teachers. So we have that advocacy piece because we always get that. And so, there are so many parts of the country that have even less smaller areas, right? So I can see how helpful that is. Do you have in person if people want in person.
Deepa Gosal: (00:28:25): Yes, we do have a location here in the Bay Area. So we’re in person and we also, like I said, work virtually with kids as well.
Frances Shefter: (00:28:38): With educational therapy is they’re licensing.
Deepa Gosal: (00:28:42): Yes. So the Association of Educational Therapists, you can get licensed through them and that’s a great website to check out www.atonline.org. I had to go through our practicum at a mentorship. There’s a whole certification process for people to get certified, so it is a really fantastic program if you’re looking to get into this.
Frances Shefter: (00:29:9): But you’re licensed in general, it’s not state specific.
Deepa Gosal: (00:29:12): No, I’m licensed in general. Yeah.
Frances Shefter: (00:29:14): Yeah, that’s nice. That’s nice because I know there’s a lot and with COVID there was a lot with the virtual, like, you know, we can’t practice in other states. But is it considering practicing in another state if we’re here and they’re, you know.
Deepa Gosal: (00:29:27): And the same thing happens with teaching credentials, which makes hard because it’s like, here’s a really qualified teacher. But then it’s like, but you’ve got a license in California and, with that therapy it’s not state specific, you know.
Frances Shefter: (00:29:40): Then its focus is on any curriculum. This has been so awesome and like I said, learning from different people so much, so many different areas and so many different ways that they can work. So you said you have the team, so people would come and they would get a case manager. And then the team and then if needed you bring in outside support.
Deepa Gosal: (00:30:05): Yes. We work one-on-one, I would determine what the kind of plan is for the student and I would determine who’s gonna be the best fit on the team and they would have that case manager. And then we would again do regular check-ins. We would be collaborating with any outside staff and if we saw other things come up along the way where it’s like, I think we need to really address this. We would work with the families to kind of bring in other people from within our network to help put those supports in place.
Frances Shefter: (00:30:34): And I’m assuming you work with the schools as well?
Deepa Gosal: (00:30:36): Yeah, we really do try to collaborate with the schools. We really want to try to build a positive environment where we can be like, ok. And that’s part of it, the schools are impacted and our role is to be like, hey, remember he needs this, these are his accommodations, can we make sure that these are being put in place? And we found that there are a lot of districts who are really willing to work with us, which is fantastic. And unfortunately, there are some cases where you know what should be put in place isn’t being put in place.
Frances Shefter (00:31:10): That’s where I come in.
Deepa Gosal: (00:31:12):Yes. And that’s where you come in and that’s the thing. It’s just so great to have people like you advocating for these families who really don’t know where to go.
Frances Shefter: (00:31:20): Yeah. No. And that’s, I mean, that’s part of the show on my YouTube channel. I have over 100 videos to educate and that’s the whole point. And I love that you say it’s focused on the child, but the whole child, including relationships in the whole family, right? So important. This has been so awesome. This has been so great. Thank you so much. So, how can people get in touch with you?
Deepa Gosal: (00:31:45): Yes, so please. That would be great. My website is www.learningtreecoach.com. There is a contact form on there. You can fill out, you can also email me at deepa@learningtreecoach.com. And like I said, we were virtually with kids all across the United States. We also have in the Bay Area in person services. And again, like I said, I’m always willing to be there to help families and put them in contact with the right resources if they need some guidance
Frances Shefter: (00:32:18): And all of the links will be in the show notes below. And then I think you had somebody you wanted to give a shout out to.
Deepa Gosal: (00:32:26): Oh yes. Oh, I almost forgot about that. But Lindsay Teitelbaum and she is at Spirited Play in San Ramon. An excellent resource that you guys can reach out to and she works with the younger ones on child play therapy and she’s a great resource here as well for a lot of families and just in general.
Frances Shefter: (00:32:49): Great. Thank you so much. I have not had a play therapist on yet. So I’m definitely gonna be reaching out to her.
Deepa Gosal: (00:32:54): Absolutely.
Frances Shefter: (00:32:56): So thank you so much. This has been wonderful.
Deepa Gosal: (00:33:00): Thank you. This was great. Just being able to talk to someone else in the field and just talk about how we’re working and trying to help these families out.
VOICEOVER: (00:33:10): You’ve been listening to Stress-Free IEP® with your host, Frances Shefter. Remember you do not need to do it all alone. You can reach Frances through www.shefterlaw.com where prior episodes are also posted. Thank you for your positive reviews, comments and sharing the show with others through YouTube, LinkedIn Apple podcast, Spotify, Google Podcast, Stitcher, and more.
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