In this episode of Stress-Free IEPTM, Frances Shefter speaks with Sheryl Stevens, a pediatric Speech-Language Pathologist (SLP). She has been an SLP for 18 years, and has worked in a variety of settings, including hospital (outpatient, pediatric), private practice, and school, in New York, Washington, D.C., and Maryland.
Frances Shefter is an Education Attorney and Advocate who is committed to helping her clients have a Stress-Free IEP experience. In each podcast, Frances interviews inspiring people to share information, educate you, empower you and help you get the knowledge you need.
VOICEOVER ( 00:00:00): Welcome to Stress-Free IEPTM. You do not need to do it all alone with your host Frances Shefter, Principal of Shefter Law, she streams a show live on Facebook on Tuesdays at noon Eastern, get more details and catch prior episodes at www.ShefterLaw.com. The Stress-Free IEPTM video podcast is also posted on YouTube and LinkedIn and you can listen to episodes through Apple podcasts, Spotify, Google podcasts, Stitcher and more. Now, here’s the host of Stress-Free IEPTM Frances Shefter.
FRANCES ( 00:00:38): Hello, everyone and welcome to the show. Today’s episode is gonna focus on speech. We know a lot of our children have issues with receptive language, expressive language, articulation, pragmatic speech and all of the above. So today’s special guest is a speech language pathologist, Sheryl Stevens, Sheryl, please introduce yourself. Tell us a little bit about you.
SHERYL ( 00:01:00): Hi, thank you so much for having me. So I’ve been a speech language pathologist for about 18 years now and I worked in a variety of settings from inpatient hospital to private practice and school system. So, and I love it. That’s a bit about me.
FRANCES ( 00:01:21): That’s awesome. And I know you have the CCC SLP. What’s the CCC stand for?
SHERYL ( 00:01:26): It stands for Certificate of Clinical Competence. So, after you graduate from grad school, you have to go through a clinical fellowship year and, where you’re supervised and then get a certain amount of hours, be supervised and then you get your Certificate of Clinical Competence. And so that’s what that stands for.
FRANCES ( 00:01:42): Do all SLPs (Speech Language Pathologists) have that or is that just if you choose to do the next level?
SHERYL ( 00:01:47): No, SLPs, all SLPs have to have that.
FRANCES ( 00:01:50): Got it. Ok. Good to know. Thank you. And so I, you know, I heard, I know you’ve taught, you’ve been in private and school. What’s the difference? Because there’s, I have that issue often that, that people are like, but my outside therapist says he needs it, but the school says he doesn’t. So what’s that difference?
SHERYL ( 00:02:9): So, actually right now I work full time for Montgomery County Public Schools and I have a private practice. So what I’m finding a lot of in my private practice are kiddos who do not qualify for speech services through the school, which means that they may present with an articulation disorder or even like a mild receptive, expressive language impairment, but it’s not enough to qualify for speech services through the school. They need to meet a certain criteria in order to do that. So it frustrates me sometimes, being in the school system knowing that ok, you know, this child does not qualify but know they may need the extra support. And I love the fact that I get to kind of do that not for my students that I see in the school, it has to be different students, but I get to support those students outside of school. So that’s mainly what I do. A lot of it is also mild social skills, you know, where we have to do a little bit more social skills training that they wouldn’t necessarily qualify through the school system. But I’m able to do that and support them outside of the school.
FRANCES ( 00:03:19): And I know I remember when my daughter went, it was like the 25% delay in order to qualify although I was able to get her to qualify because it was atypical. Her articulation, right? It, it might be because I’m an attorney.
SHERYL ( 00:03:34): I was gonna say you could always find a little bit of a loophole sometimes and you have to be kind of savvy to do that, which you are.
FRANCES ( 00:03:42): Yeah. And so that, that her articulation, we were able to get her in to still keep her IEP which is helpful. And it’s, you know, I’ve noticed and tell me if I’m right or not, that speech is so important in language that a lot of times behavior issues are because children can’t get their message out.
SHERYL ( 00:04:03): 1000%. So there becomes this frustration on so many different levels. If there’s an articulation disorder and the people your, this child is trying to communicate, but the person they’re trying to communicate with doesn’t understand them. Can you imagine how frustrating that is for that child? So, you know, that’s where I would come in and work on some of those specific sounds. Some of them are called phonological processes where, you know, there’s certain sound patterns. And so, yeah, a lot of it will come out in behavior issues because they’re frustrated. Also in terms of receptive language comprehension, sometimes this information is just too much or presented too quickly and students aren’t allowed the time to process that. So they’re utterly confused and then might not know how to ask the questions, they need to get the help. So that starts some of that frustration as well.
FRANCES ( 00:04:59): Right. Yeah. No, I know. I, I’ve seen it when I was in the classroom and with my, with my daughter with Chana, yeah, it’s even myself. Like I mean, all of us as adults if, if we’re trying to get our point across and the other person doesn’t understand. It’s like, uh!
SHERYL ( 00:05:15): You know, and I have to tell you, I actually self diagnosed myself kind of as an adult after becoming a speech pathologist that when I was younger, I am convinced that I had an expressive language disorder. I remember trying to write or write a paper and couldn’t remember the word I wanted to say and literally yelling to my mom saying, mom, what’s the word I’m thinking of and trying to describe it and use that process. So I kind of self taught myself some skills. But yeah, and I just would become so frustrated. So personally I understand as well.
FRANCES ( 00:05:48): Which is interesting that you say that because so I, I talk about Chana a lot on the show but, so she has that issue still. But when we did full testing, nothing came out with expressive language. Is there like something that can be done about that?
SHERYL ( 00:06:06): So yes, so I kind of call them brain exercises and working on synonyms and antonyms and building a vocabulary kind of list in the child’s brain where, and having them exactly kind of what I explained to you, having her explain to you what she’s trying to think of. Those are all strategies that could kind of help jog that word retrieval, those word retrieval difficulties and that expressive language. It might not show up in testing, but that doesn’t mean that there’s not an underlying, a little bit of difficulty that’s there. And those are just ways I, I mean, I can give you a whole bunch, kind of activities offline to do. But yeah, I mean, kind of like these brain exercises, like I said, synonyms antonyms, giving a description of the word, using the words, new words and sentences, words that they might not, that she might not have understood before because again, it’s all a kind of getting it going in here so that she can get it out more easily. Yeah.
FRANCES ( 00:07:11): And I know, I, I, when, when she was even younger and she would be like mom, I want that thing, that thing. And I’m like, ok, what’s the thing? What does it sound like? What does it look like? What does it smell like? What do you do with it? And those questions to get her and then I can help her find the word.
SHERYL ( 00:07:27): That’s wonderful. Those are great strategies and she’s lucky that she had you to help her with that. Some parents don’t get it and, you know, some parents can become frustrated. I mean, you kind of have a little bit of that background. but I think it’s really important and that’s actually kind of why I like the private practice, is that I could work with parents and kind of coach them as well and provide them with strategies that could help them work with their child in the home. And that’s a little bit different than in the schools where I don’t always get the opportunity to do that.
FRANCES ( 00:07:54): Right. Because it’s just the school based and the parents are there, what, for the 45 minute hour IEP meeting.
SHERYL ( 00:08:00): Yes.
FRANCES ( 00:08:01): Yes, or sometimes six hours depending.
SHERYL ( 00:08:07): Exactly. Yes. I’ve been in those as well.
FRANCES ( 00:08:10): I mean, which is good. So, like when, like I know, a lot of, so the clients say all the time with the, outside and inside in school, and what the difference is, what do you recommend? Like if your child has an expressive language, receptive language, is there one that’s better than the other? Or do you recommend both? What would you recommend?
SHERYL ( 00:08:33): Ok, I always always recommend for a child even though I’m in my private practice to get tested through the school because I would always love for that child to get that extra support in the school and qualify through the school. So I’m always gonna push for it. I’m gonna push parents to do it. I’m gonna go through the process with them, explain to them how they can start that process because we want to cover kind of all our everything, right? See if there’s any educational impact, cognitive impact, speech and language impact. And yes, I can do the speech and language testing, but I always want them to try and go through the school so that they can get those services in the school and then also get services outside of school and they could kind of double dip into both. I think that sometimes in the school, you know, I don’t wanna, I work in the school system right? So, but a lot of times we’re, I’m working with a group of students and by the time you gather all the students instead of 45 minutes, it kind of goes down to a half hour and then you want to give someone individual attention, but then someone starts kind of getting off task. So it’s not like, so yes, they get the services, they get this extra, that support in school. But I always feel like having the outside services where it’s one on one, you have that child for the full 35-40 minutes, whatever we decide our session is gonna be and you have that full attention. It really builds onto it and it adds more and you see more progress that way.
FRANCES ( 00:10:05): And I mean, I did both and I for my clients, I recommend both as well because it’s different environments. It needs a school for the school stuff. But then the private, like as you said, progresses more. And also I know, I, I know, you know, Beth, she was on my show, preschool on how when they’re younger, finding the issues, finding where their problems are, where they need assistance. I hate using the word problems but where they need assistance and then the more services at a younger age is so helpful.
SHERYL ( 00:10:38): The earlier, the better. I will always say if there’s a child in, if your child you’re concerned or my baby is 18 months in there. I don’t really hear first words yet but the pediatrician saying it’s ok. No, go and get your child. If you, if you as a parent know and if you’re concerned go and get your child tested, there is no, nothing wrong with that. It’s, you know, and I think it’s wonderful to go in there. Get the child tested as early as possible so that they can get those services early and possibly catch up and be done with it. Another thing that parents need to know is they’re always worried that it’s like gonna go on their permanent record and that they’re gonna always be labeled as this child with a disability and it’s not like that either. Not that there’s anything wrong with that because sometimes there’s benefits to that as well. But, just because a child is labeled with any sort of disability when they’re younger doesn’t mean it necessarily carries through, you know, as that child gets the services, they could get everything that they need, build up those speech and language skills and then be dismissed and then it’s done.
FRANCES ( 00:11:47): And I know, I’m just thinking back like when I was teaching, also when I was an attorney, in DC, well, I still am but, what that schools would say, I’ve had SLP say to us at IEP meetings of like, well, the child’s in middle school now and it’s become a habit and there’s nothing we can do. So we’re dismissing him.
SHERYL ( 00:12:13): So, ok, so at a certain age, if we’re talking specifically about articulation, I wouldn’t, expressive and receptive, I think that’s something you could always work on… articulation when it’s specific speech sounds. Another important thing is to target those pretty early as well because as the child gets older, it does become more difficult for that child to correct those speech sounds and to have it habitual. So there is something to be said about that, that as the child reaches the end of middle school and into high school, if they’re still trying to work on their ‘r’ sounds at a certain point, even if you can get them to say their ‘r’ sounds for them to make it a habit and carry it over becomes much more difficult. It’s kind of like learning a language, right? They say when you’re younger, learning a second language, it’s much easier to catch on and learn that second language. And as you get older, it becomes more difficult to kind of catch on and learn that language. So is it impossible? No, but as a speech language pathologist in a school system where your focus is academic impact, if they’re not meeting that goal, but it’s no longer impacting their academic skills, then most likely they will be dismissed.
FRANCES ( 00:13:31): And that makes sense. It just made me think about it with second languages, whether your second language is English or Spanish or Hebrew or whatever it is. Think about, like, I know for me, Chana’s name is Chana. A lot of people can’t pronounce it because it’s Hebrew. And if you don’t grow up saying that sound, it’s so it comes out Hana, which is fine but it’s, it makes sense that to try and teach somebody to say it, it’s gonna be a while.
SHERYL ( 00:14:01): Yes. Yes. So that’s definitely something unfortunately that does happen and which is why I personally get sometimes frustrated when kids don’t qualify for articulation in the school system. And, but that, and that’s why the majority of my private clients are, are students who have difficulties or children who have difficulties with articulation because they’re not gonna qualify in the school, but we need to nip this in the bud. So it doesn’t continue.
FRANCES ( 00:14:29): Right? No, that makes sense. That makes sense. And then it was something you said about like middle and high school, which I have this conversation with my clients all the time of like, yes, we could probably get your child qualified for speech, but your child is either gonna be pulled out of electives or academic content. And so where is the, where’s the balance of what you need? You know.
SHERYL ( 00:14:52): So I happen to be a speech pathologist in the high schools. and I generally work with my students in their English classes. So I actually push into their English class and work with those students in the classroom. Oftentimes I’m kind of just seen as like a second or third teacher in the room that just comes once in a while. The students are used to me being there, even students who don’t have speech often ask me for help because they see how I explain things or modify things for my other students. And so they kind of get a little bit of free speech on the side there without having an IEP. But so oftentimes that’s what I do or I pull them out of a resource class where they’d be working on, you know, extra, they’d be working on their extra work, so I would pull them from that class and work with them during their resource class. Or third option this morning. I actually worked with a student. I went to his English class and they were gonna have some independent work. So I was able to pull him and modify. This is a student who needs to think aloud and speak out loud and work through his thought process out loud and he will find me and say Mrs. Stevens, can we go in the hallway? Mrs Stevens, we need to talk this out. And almost I, I’m almost always able to pull him and work whatever they’re doing in the English class, which is usually comprehend, expressive and receptive language, written language and work with him then.
FRANCES ( 00:16:26): Yeah. No, that makes sense. and it’s, it is good and I love that you do push in and pull out. And for those that don’t know, pull out is when the student goes into your office and push in is when you go into the student’s classroom. And so, and there should, I, I mean, I would say there should always be that balance because in your office, it’s that one on one and in the classroom is where they apply the skills they learn in your office.
SHERYL ( 00:16:52): 1000%. Exactly. And I would also say, you know, it’s also great in the classroom working on some of that, those pragmatic skills and being able to wait their turn, raise their hand, engage in group work and group discussion. So I get to practice a lot of that in the classroom, which is really great.
FRANCES ( 00:17:16): Yeah. And so for people that don’t know, receptive language is when you hear the language and processing. I do it all the time. That’s why I like to remind you and expressive language is getting the thoughts out in words or on paper. And the pragmatics I want to move into the pragmatics.
SHERYL ( 00:17:33): Yes, please.
FRANCES ( 00:17:34): So I know like when I was a teacher many, many moons ago, I’m not gonna date myself. Pragmatic. They would say it’s social skills, it’s not school based. So I know, it’s totally shifted now and most schools I know, at least in our area, the DMV area, they’re, they are qualifying children for pragmatics. What is like, how, how can parents push the schools to evaluate for pragmatics or to get, get them themselves, get their children to qualify?
SHERYL ( 00:18:04): Yes. So that’s a great question. So, if a parent is seeing their child struggle socially and then they’re getting reports back from the school that they are not, they’re not contributing to any group work. They are talking out of turn or they’re using inappropriate language. This is when a concern arises and when the key to getting speech therapy in a school system, like I keep saying is that it has to negatively impact their academic performance. So once there’s an indication of that, then the parent can say, ok, it’s, I see it at home, I see it socially. My child doesn’t really have many friends or they’re having a difficult time with their friend group and now the teacher is reporting it. I want to move forward and get my child evaluated. And that’s when the child would go through the special, you know, the special education team, the resource teacher of special education, that’s who they would contact and get the process started.
FRANCES ( 00:19:13): And that’s, you just gave me another idea for educational impact. Is that if a child is not able to participate or do group work because of the pragmatic skills, that’s the educational impact that you push for. because I know schools like to give a lot of pushback, not because the speech therapists want to, but the, the schools just give pushback sometimes and parents have to fight for it. And that’s part of the reason I do. The show is like, give you ideas of what you can fight for.
SHERYL ( 00:19:42): Yes, and the parent should fight for it. And the parent, especially if they have, you could reach out to their speech pathologist at the school specifically and say these are my concerns. You know, I want my child evaluated or I see that the testing doesn’t show it, but there is this impact, just talk to the speech pathologist. It’s me. I’m definitely gonna try and push for services for that for your child. So, it’s so important to advocate for your child even, you know, maybe it’ll work, maybe it won’t but always try, always put it out there because you, you never know. And trust your gut.
FRANCES ( 00:20:27): I always, always trust your gut. Right? Like I remember, with Chana, like it was, oh, you know, I had special ed teachers even say, oh, we’ll wait and see and, and she’ll catch up soon. I’m like, no, no, no, no, no, no, wait and see. Never gonna happen with me. Yeah, the sooner, the better.
SHERYL ( 00:20:42): Yes, the sooner the better. And, yeah, it’s just like I said, I just think it’s, you have to trust your instincts and go for it and fight for your child. I always say that I really, no matter what.
FRANCES ( 00:20:58): Yeah, exactly. I agree. And, you know, talk to professionals, watch shows, watch videos, you know, Google it and find those. Are there, like for developmental milestones, are there ones that parents should watch for? So, at a certain age they should be aware of things.
SHERYL ( 00:21:14): So you know, as an infant, you should watch, you want at about like nine months for your child to be babbling. You know, that’s always the start of this da da ba, ba, ba ba ba, those kinds of sounds and you know, there’s a range that’s, you know, within normal limits that you want to look for. So usually first words appear between 12 months and 18 months. If you’re seeing that your child doesn’t have any words yet or maybe is making very, very limited babbling sounds, that’s when you would want to kind of talk to your pediatrician. You also always want to get your child, make sure your pediatrician is screening your child’s hearing. That’s always the first thing you want to rule out with babies and even if they pass their infant, the screening when they’re born, the hearing screening, you know, the pediatrician should be, it’s usually protocol that they’re, they’re screening the hearing, maybe not as babies though. I don’t remember that actually. So as babies, but I don’t think so. As babies, that should be the first thing that should be ruled out. And, you know, if the hearing is fine, you know, they’ll refer you to an audiologist, get the hearing checked and then, if the hearing is ok, then I would move forward and call Infants and Toddlers Montgomery County. They’re wonderful and get an evaluation. Right. Yeah. Those are really the milestones.
FRANCES ( 00:22:42): Exactly. And if you’re not with, Montgomery County, you can Google, whatever your county school district district is and look for, depending on the child’s age, on which office to call because it changes at age three. I’m correct. Right?
SHERYL ( 00:22:58): Yes, at three years old, the babies, infants age out of early intervention. And, yeah. So that’s when you would call, there’s a different number to call. Yeah, for that.
FRANCES ( 00:23:10): I think it’s called Child Find.
SHERYL ( 00:23:11): It is Child Find, in MCPS. I don’t know what it is in other counties.
FRANCES ( 00:23:16): It’s different everywhere and it’s, they call it different everywhere and Child Find means so many different things.
SHERYL ( 00:23:23): Yeah, it does. I’m not even going to confuse the viewers because there’s a lot of different terms for Child Find.
FRANCES ( 00:23:32): The same as the acronyms we all use. That’s why.
SHERYL ( 00:23:34): Exactly. And they’re changing all the time. So I keep getting confused of what?
FRANCES ( 00:23:40): I have on my website, a free download of all the acronyms, I shouldn’t say all, what we could fit on two pages so we could have front and back and that’s it. I have it because parents, when they’re new, especially when something even with speech, you know, when, you know, our kid is 18 months, we don’t know, like, you know, if, unless you’re in the educational system or, you know, and have that knowledge, nobody knows who to call, nobody knows what they should be looking for. They trust the doctor they trust. And that’s when I always say trust the inner gut and Google it.
SHERYL ( 00:24:17): Yeah. So, and I, I agree and I love our pediatricians and they’re wonderful. but again, sometimes they’re like, don’t worry, it’ll happen, it’ll happen. I say, go, just go get your child tested if you’re concerned. If there’s any little concern that arises, just see, just see if, if they need, if they need a little extra help. And the wonderful thing about the little ones, at least in Montgomery County, I don’t know in other places is that they will come to your home, Infants and Toddlers, and your home, your daycare, provide services there, which is wonderful.
FRANCES ( 00:24:57): Right. Yeah, I know PG County and DC, you have to go to the testing site but services are, are push in. Yeah. So like I know for Infants and Toddlers in Montgomery County, it’s not so much as the one on one as it is teaching the parents. But you were saying you do private, teaching the parents how to do it because with speech it’s not a 30 minute, a week, an hour, a week thing, it’s daily, day for hours and hours in and out.
SHERYL ( 00:25:25): Correct. and it’s so important that that parent aspect and, you know, and it keeps, just to talk about the private practice. That’s one of the biggest benefits and things that I love about my private practice is that I could work one on one with the parents to in person, teach them strategies, provide activities and homework so that they can work with their child at home and know what they’re looking for and know how to elicit certain sounds. And that’s one of the benefits of the private therapy. And that’s what I love about it because again, I see that progress and I always tell parents my goal is not to prolong this. I want your child to get the services, meet their goals and then go on their merry way like we are not gonna prolong this as long longer than we need to.
FRANCES ( 00:26:14): The way it should be because with speech because I get that a lot of times from potential clients about they’re trying to take away my child’s IEP because they said, you know, and it’s, but with speech just like with occupational therapy, sometimes it’s ok because once you hit that point, you’re good.
SHERYL ( 00:26:34): And you want to celebrate that. A lot of parents get very worried and nervous when they hear, oh oh they’re gonna, they’re, they’re gonna drop speech or they’re gonna drop OT and I say no, no, no. This is a wonderful thing. It is celebrating your, your child met the goals and they’re doing wonderfully and they’re carrying it over and I know it’s like a clutch and you, you want your child to always be watched and looked over and get everything they need. But you got to celebrate those wins also and just be so happy when your child does meet, meet their goals.
FRANCES ( 00:27:04): And I’m assuming people, parents can call you like if they don’t want to go through the school, like how do you, when you do evaluations, do you help them? Do you write your reports and help them to be able to get the services in school?
SHERYL ( 00:27:18): So, yes. So that’s one of the things that I do, I always please, I want, I would love, I encourage people to reach out to me, email, call me. I don’t charge anything for an initial consultation. I want to hear what your concerns are and so I can guide you. Sometimes it’s, I’ll say you don’t even need me right now. Your concerns are valid but it’s normal and here’s some strategies and if they don’t work, call me in a month. Sometimes I hear the concerns and I say, ok, I think there might be more than speech going on. Here’s some other resources and people to reach out to. Of course, I can do the speech and language evaluation, but it’s important to reach out to these people. And I also, like I said, encourage the parents to reach out to the schools. What are the teachers saying? Are there any concerns arising there? Ask for support in the school, get your child evaluated in the school. And if they’re not gonna do that and the parent, the schools aren’t seeing any concerns, that’s when I, I will do the speech and language evaluation, I will provide all the services. But I’m always about teaming up and getting that child all the services they need because sometimes it is just speech and language but sometimes it’s not, sometimes there’s more to it and it’s important that those resources are provided for parents so that they can get all the support they need.
FRANCES ( 00:28:50): Yeah. And that’s one thing I always say is don’t take no for an answer. When it’s an initial evaluation through the schools don’t take wait and see and don’t take no, you push, push, push. And I’ve had a lot of clients call me because the school keeps saying no. And once I walk in and ask for the independent educational evaluation all of a sudden they’re like, oh, no, we’ll test.
SHERYL ( 00:29:11): Right. It’s like, really, what’s, it’s no skin off your back. Test the child. Let’s just see. I think, yeah, I think that’s, I love that the parents use you, like that they have you as the advocate. and, you know, and I’ve also offered parents if you need help reaching out through the, to the schools, this is what you should say, this is who you should reach out to. That’s also some services that I could help provide with. Because it is so important, the support of the school is so important. Private schools, sometimes it’s a little more difficult, they don’t always have those services. which is, you know, when we have to kind of seek more outside resources. But when there’s public schools, there are a lot of resources in house, that’s an important thing to know as well.
FRANCES ( 00:30:04): And I think I’m right that students that are enrolled in private school can still get services for speech through their home school.
SHERYL ( 00:30:12): Correct. So that’s exactly right. So if a child is enrolled in a private school, but they’re zoned for a certain school within Montgomery County, they can reach out to that home school that they’re zoned for and say, ok, my child goes to this private school, but I am concerned that this is going on. Can you test my child? And that school, their home school can test the child and provide services.
FRANCES ( 00:30:40): Yep. And as I say, don’t take no for an answer. Correct. Because, because they often like, and I don’t know, I mean, I know why, because in some schools it, they’re overwhelmed, like, I know there’s some speech pathologists that have like, two or three schools that they’re managing. Correct. So, it’s, I, I don’t know how they do that.
SHERYL ( 00:31:01): It’s overwhelming. I have two schools that I manage. One of the schools I am the only speech pathologist there. The other school, there’s three other speech pathologists that I team up with. Yeah, so it is, it is hard to manage. It’s, it’s, it was really rough over COVID. There were so many students and so many concerns that arose and limited hiring and it was like, kind of crazy. We’re finally getting back into getting the right amount of speech therapists at the school so that we can split caseloads so that our caseloads are a little bit more manageable. And so that’s pretty good news.
FRANCES ( 00:31:40): And I’ve heard that a lot that during COVID didn’t get speech services and, schools trying to say, oh, we’ll make it up like, no, you’re not gonna make up a year giving double services because it’s not, you’re not gonna get like, if like, yes, more services is better, but sometimes like, no, we want independent.
SHERYL ( 00:32:01): Correct. You can pay for it. Right. Yeah, exactly. I was gonna say sometimes the school systems do mess up and then they need to make that up.
FRANCES ( 00:32:10): Right. And I, I mean, I’ve had a lot of school systems say flat out. Like, look, we don’t have a speech, we didn’t have a speech from September to December. This is the amount of hours we’re gonna give it to you right now. Authorization. No problem. Sometimes parents just need to know to ask for it.
SHERYL ( 00:32:27): Correct. Correct. I think that’s kind of the theme of our session is like, please, like as a parent, it is your role to advocate for your child any little concern, whether it be speech, whether it be something physical, social, emotional, you know your child best, that’s when you need to go and like the child can’t always help themselves and especially if they’re little, you need to go and, and reach out and find those resources for your child.
FRANCES ( 00:32:57): And it’s funny, I remember, as a new parent with my kids that, I always, having been a teacher and been in a situation, I didn’t want to be that parent and then I took a step back and said, yes, I do because who else is gonna be that parent for my child? And if I don’t speak up and I don’t fight and I don’t do it, then it’s not going to happen sometimes.
SHERYL ( 00:33:23): And there’s a way to do it. It doesn’t always have to be an aggressive, you know, you don’t have to be aggressive about it. It’s, there’s, it’s really important to be gracious and know that the school really does want to help your child. And so, you know, it’s not always a fight, I’m saying you gotta fight for your child, but it’s not always a fight. Sometimes you reach out and this school is happy to evaluate your child or, you know, as long as you’re gracious and grateful and let the school system know. Listen, I have this concern. You’re the, you’re the professionals. I need your help. I think there’s a way of doing it and it’s important to, to let your teachers and speech therapists and everyone who works in the school system know that you are appreciative of their help. And but you, they’re the ones that could help you.
FRANCES ( 00:34:10): And I say that a also a lot when I go into an IEP meeting, I don’t come in adversarial. I don’t come in. I’m the lawyer. Listen to me. I’ll state the facts of where we are. I’ll state, you know, we appreciate everything you’re trying to do. You know, but let’s find what’s working. So yeah, that’s, you know, it’s, it’s start nice and then if you have to go that other way, you go the other way, but most of the time starting nice works.
SHERYL ( 00:34:40): Yeah, I think niceness goes a long way. It definitely does. Yeah.
FRANCES ( 00:34:47): So I know you said you’re in Montgomery County, Maryland? You like, I don’t know, just, licensing for SLP. Can you do outside of the state or just in Maryland?
SHERYL ( 00:34:57): I am like, I have a national license. every speech pathologist really should have their national license. And then you have to also apply for individual licenses through individual states. So I am licensed specifically in Maryland, DC and New York because I worked in New York for a long time. but it is, it just depends on the speech pathologist and where you’ve applied to, to get your license and then keep it up.
FRANCES ( 00:35:22): Got it. So it’s similar to the bar, like I’m, I’m DC Maryland and Florida because I went to law school in Florida. So how can people reach you? Like, what if they’re saying, wait, I don’t know. Can I, can I have a consultation? What do I do? How can people reach out to you?
SHERYL ( 00:35:36): Yes. So my website is sherylstevens.com. You could see my name on the, on the screen here. Sheryl Stevens one word dot com. That’s my website. You could email me through there. All my contact information, my phone number, my email is on there, what services I provide. And, you know, anything that, any questions should be, you should be able to get answered through that website and if not contact me through there. I’m very easily accessible and I will respond within 24 hours for sure. Call me or email me. Oh, perfect.
FRANCES ( 00:36:16): The links will be below so that it’s really easy. They could just click it. It’s, you know, I know, I know we have talked for hours on this and we can, but it looks like it’s time we need to wrap up. Thank you so much for being on the show and for everything you shared with the audience.
SHERYL ( 00:36:34): Thank you so much for having me. It’s as always, it’s so wonderful speaking with you. It really is so. Thank you.
VOICEOVER ( 00:36:42): You’ve been listening to Stress-Free IEPTM. With your host Frances Shefter. Remember you do not need to do it all alone. You can reach Frances through ShefterLaw.com where prior episodes are also posted. Thank you for your positive reviews, comments and sharing the show with others through YouTube, LinkedIn, Apple Podcast, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher and more.
Stress Free IEP™ with Frances Shefter and Sheryl Stevens
In this episode of Stress-Free IEPTM, Frances Shefter speaks with Sheryl Stevens, a pediatric Speech-Language Pathologist (SLP). She has been an SLP for 18 years, and has worked in a variety of settings, including hospital (outpatient, pediatric), private practice, and school, in New York, Washington, D.C., and Maryland.
Stress-Free IEPTM:
Frances Shefter is an Education Attorney and Advocate who is committed to helping her clients have a Stress-Free IEP experience. In each podcast, Frances interviews inspiring people to share information, educate you, empower you and help you get the knowledge you need.
Watch more episodes of Stress-FreeTM on YouTube.
Connect and learn more from your host, Frances Shefter:
Read the full transcript:
VOICEOVER ( 00:00:00): Welcome to Stress-Free IEPTM. You do not need to do it all alone with your host Frances Shefter, Principal of Shefter Law, she streams a show live on Facebook on Tuesdays at noon Eastern, get more details and catch prior episodes at www.ShefterLaw.com. The Stress-Free IEPTM video podcast is also posted on YouTube and LinkedIn and you can listen to episodes through Apple podcasts, Spotify, Google podcasts, Stitcher and more. Now, here’s the host of Stress-Free IEPTM Frances Shefter.
FRANCES ( 00:00:38): Hello, everyone and welcome to the show. Today’s episode is gonna focus on speech. We know a lot of our children have issues with receptive language, expressive language, articulation, pragmatic speech and all of the above. So today’s special guest is a speech language pathologist, Sheryl Stevens, Sheryl, please introduce yourself. Tell us a little bit about you.
SHERYL ( 00:01:00): Hi, thank you so much for having me. So I’ve been a speech language pathologist for about 18 years now and I worked in a variety of settings from inpatient hospital to private practice and school system. So, and I love it. That’s a bit about me.
FRANCES ( 00:01:21): That’s awesome. And I know you have the CCC SLP. What’s the CCC stand for?
SHERYL ( 00:01:26): It stands for Certificate of Clinical Competence. So, after you graduate from grad school, you have to go through a clinical fellowship year and, where you’re supervised and then get a certain amount of hours, be supervised and then you get your Certificate of Clinical Competence. And so that’s what that stands for.
FRANCES ( 00:01:42): Do all SLPs (Speech Language Pathologists) have that or is that just if you choose to do the next level?
SHERYL ( 00:01:47): No, SLPs, all SLPs have to have that.
FRANCES ( 00:01:50): Got it. Ok. Good to know. Thank you. And so I, you know, I heard, I know you’ve taught, you’ve been in private and school. What’s the difference? Because there’s, I have that issue often that, that people are like, but my outside therapist says he needs it, but the school says he doesn’t. So what’s that difference?
SHERYL ( 00:02:9): So, actually right now I work full time for Montgomery County Public Schools and I have a private practice. So what I’m finding a lot of in my private practice are kiddos who do not qualify for speech services through the school, which means that they may present with an articulation disorder or even like a mild receptive, expressive language impairment, but it’s not enough to qualify for speech services through the school. They need to meet a certain criteria in order to do that. So it frustrates me sometimes, being in the school system knowing that ok, you know, this child does not qualify but know they may need the extra support. And I love the fact that I get to kind of do that not for my students that I see in the school, it has to be different students, but I get to support those students outside of school. So that’s mainly what I do. A lot of it is also mild social skills, you know, where we have to do a little bit more social skills training that they wouldn’t necessarily qualify through the school system. But I’m able to do that and support them outside of the school.
FRANCES ( 00:03:19): And I know I remember when my daughter went, it was like the 25% delay in order to qualify although I was able to get her to qualify because it was atypical. Her articulation, right? It, it might be because I’m an attorney.
SHERYL ( 00:03:34): I was gonna say you could always find a little bit of a loophole sometimes and you have to be kind of savvy to do that, which you are.
FRANCES ( 00:03:42): Yeah. And so that, that her articulation, we were able to get her in to still keep her IEP which is helpful. And it’s, you know, I’ve noticed and tell me if I’m right or not, that speech is so important in language that a lot of times behavior issues are because children can’t get their message out.
SHERYL ( 00:04:03): 1000%. So there becomes this frustration on so many different levels. If there’s an articulation disorder and the people your, this child is trying to communicate, but the person they’re trying to communicate with doesn’t understand them. Can you imagine how frustrating that is for that child? So, you know, that’s where I would come in and work on some of those specific sounds. Some of them are called phonological processes where, you know, there’s certain sound patterns. And so, yeah, a lot of it will come out in behavior issues because they’re frustrated. Also in terms of receptive language comprehension, sometimes this information is just too much or presented too quickly and students aren’t allowed the time to process that. So they’re utterly confused and then might not know how to ask the questions, they need to get the help. So that starts some of that frustration as well.
FRANCES ( 00:04:59): Right. Yeah. No, I know. I, I’ve seen it when I was in the classroom and with my, with my daughter with Chana, yeah, it’s even myself. Like I mean, all of us as adults if, if we’re trying to get our point across and the other person doesn’t understand. It’s like, uh!
SHERYL ( 00:05:15): You know, and I have to tell you, I actually self diagnosed myself kind of as an adult after becoming a speech pathologist that when I was younger, I am convinced that I had an expressive language disorder. I remember trying to write or write a paper and couldn’t remember the word I wanted to say and literally yelling to my mom saying, mom, what’s the word I’m thinking of and trying to describe it and use that process. So I kind of self taught myself some skills. But yeah, and I just would become so frustrated. So personally I understand as well.
FRANCES ( 00:05:48): Which is interesting that you say that because so I, I talk about Chana a lot on the show but, so she has that issue still. But when we did full testing, nothing came out with expressive language. Is there like something that can be done about that?
SHERYL ( 00:06:06): So yes, so I kind of call them brain exercises and working on synonyms and antonyms and building a vocabulary kind of list in the child’s brain where, and having them exactly kind of what I explained to you, having her explain to you what she’s trying to think of. Those are all strategies that could kind of help jog that word retrieval, those word retrieval difficulties and that expressive language. It might not show up in testing, but that doesn’t mean that there’s not an underlying, a little bit of difficulty that’s there. And those are just ways I, I mean, I can give you a whole bunch, kind of activities offline to do. But yeah, I mean, kind of like these brain exercises, like I said, synonyms antonyms, giving a description of the word, using the words, new words and sentences, words that they might not, that she might not have understood before because again, it’s all a kind of getting it going in here so that she can get it out more easily. Yeah.
FRANCES ( 00:07:11): And I know, I, I, when, when she was even younger and she would be like mom, I want that thing, that thing. And I’m like, ok, what’s the thing? What does it sound like? What does it look like? What does it smell like? What do you do with it? And those questions to get her and then I can help her find the word.
SHERYL ( 00:07:27): That’s wonderful. Those are great strategies and she’s lucky that she had you to help her with that. Some parents don’t get it and, you know, some parents can become frustrated. I mean, you kind of have a little bit of that background. but I think it’s really important and that’s actually kind of why I like the private practice, is that I could work with parents and kind of coach them as well and provide them with strategies that could help them work with their child in the home. And that’s a little bit different than in the schools where I don’t always get the opportunity to do that.
FRANCES ( 00:07:54): Right. Because it’s just the school based and the parents are there, what, for the 45 minute hour IEP meeting.
SHERYL ( 00:08:00): Yes.
FRANCES ( 00:08:01): Yes, or sometimes six hours depending.
SHERYL ( 00:08:07): Exactly. Yes. I’ve been in those as well.
FRANCES ( 00:08:10): I mean, which is good. So, like when, like I know, a lot of, so the clients say all the time with the, outside and inside in school, and what the difference is, what do you recommend? Like if your child has an expressive language, receptive language, is there one that’s better than the other? Or do you recommend both? What would you recommend?
SHERYL ( 00:08:33): Ok, I always always recommend for a child even though I’m in my private practice to get tested through the school because I would always love for that child to get that extra support in the school and qualify through the school. So I’m always gonna push for it. I’m gonna push parents to do it. I’m gonna go through the process with them, explain to them how they can start that process because we want to cover kind of all our everything, right? See if there’s any educational impact, cognitive impact, speech and language impact. And yes, I can do the speech and language testing, but I always want them to try and go through the school so that they can get those services in the school and then also get services outside of school and they could kind of double dip into both. I think that sometimes in the school, you know, I don’t wanna, I work in the school system right? So, but a lot of times we’re, I’m working with a group of students and by the time you gather all the students instead of 45 minutes, it kind of goes down to a half hour and then you want to give someone individual attention, but then someone starts kind of getting off task. So it’s not like, so yes, they get the services, they get this extra, that support in school. But I always feel like having the outside services where it’s one on one, you have that child for the full 35-40 minutes, whatever we decide our session is gonna be and you have that full attention. It really builds onto it and it adds more and you see more progress that way.
FRANCES ( 00:10:05): And I mean, I did both and I for my clients, I recommend both as well because it’s different environments. It needs a school for the school stuff. But then the private, like as you said, progresses more. And also I know, I, I know, you know, Beth, she was on my show, preschool on how when they’re younger, finding the issues, finding where their problems are, where they need assistance. I hate using the word problems but where they need assistance and then the more services at a younger age is so helpful.
SHERYL ( 00:10:38): The earlier, the better. I will always say if there’s a child in, if your child you’re concerned or my baby is 18 months in there. I don’t really hear first words yet but the pediatrician saying it’s ok. No, go and get your child. If you, if you as a parent know and if you’re concerned go and get your child tested, there is no, nothing wrong with that. It’s, you know, and I think it’s wonderful to go in there. Get the child tested as early as possible so that they can get those services early and possibly catch up and be done with it. Another thing that parents need to know is they’re always worried that it’s like gonna go on their permanent record and that they’re gonna always be labeled as this child with a disability and it’s not like that either. Not that there’s anything wrong with that because sometimes there’s benefits to that as well. But, just because a child is labeled with any sort of disability when they’re younger doesn’t mean it necessarily carries through, you know, as that child gets the services, they could get everything that they need, build up those speech and language skills and then be dismissed and then it’s done.
FRANCES ( 00:11:47): And I know, I’m just thinking back like when I was teaching, also when I was an attorney, in DC, well, I still am but, what that schools would say, I’ve had SLP say to us at IEP meetings of like, well, the child’s in middle school now and it’s become a habit and there’s nothing we can do. So we’re dismissing him.
SHERYL ( 00:12:13): So, ok, so at a certain age, if we’re talking specifically about articulation, I wouldn’t, expressive and receptive, I think that’s something you could always work on… articulation when it’s specific speech sounds. Another important thing is to target those pretty early as well because as the child gets older, it does become more difficult for that child to correct those speech sounds and to have it habitual. So there is something to be said about that, that as the child reaches the end of middle school and into high school, if they’re still trying to work on their ‘r’ sounds at a certain point, even if you can get them to say their ‘r’ sounds for them to make it a habit and carry it over becomes much more difficult. It’s kind of like learning a language, right? They say when you’re younger, learning a second language, it’s much easier to catch on and learn that second language. And as you get older, it becomes more difficult to kind of catch on and learn that language. So is it impossible? No, but as a speech language pathologist in a school system where your focus is academic impact, if they’re not meeting that goal, but it’s no longer impacting their academic skills, then most likely they will be dismissed.
FRANCES ( 00:13:31): And that makes sense. It just made me think about it with second languages, whether your second language is English or Spanish or Hebrew or whatever it is. Think about, like, I know for me, Chana’s name is Chana. A lot of people can’t pronounce it because it’s Hebrew. And if you don’t grow up saying that sound, it’s so it comes out Hana, which is fine but it’s, it makes sense that to try and teach somebody to say it, it’s gonna be a while.
SHERYL ( 00:14:01): Yes. Yes. So that’s definitely something unfortunately that does happen and which is why I personally get sometimes frustrated when kids don’t qualify for articulation in the school system. And, but that, and that’s why the majority of my private clients are, are students who have difficulties or children who have difficulties with articulation because they’re not gonna qualify in the school, but we need to nip this in the bud. So it doesn’t continue.
FRANCES ( 00:14:29): Right? No, that makes sense. That makes sense. And then it was something you said about like middle and high school, which I have this conversation with my clients all the time of like, yes, we could probably get your child qualified for speech, but your child is either gonna be pulled out of electives or academic content. And so where is the, where’s the balance of what you need? You know.
SHERYL ( 00:14:52): So I happen to be a speech pathologist in the high schools. and I generally work with my students in their English classes. So I actually push into their English class and work with those students in the classroom. Oftentimes I’m kind of just seen as like a second or third teacher in the room that just comes once in a while. The students are used to me being there, even students who don’t have speech often ask me for help because they see how I explain things or modify things for my other students. And so they kind of get a little bit of free speech on the side there without having an IEP. But so oftentimes that’s what I do or I pull them out of a resource class where they’d be working on, you know, extra, they’d be working on their extra work, so I would pull them from that class and work with them during their resource class. Or third option this morning. I actually worked with a student. I went to his English class and they were gonna have some independent work. So I was able to pull him and modify. This is a student who needs to think aloud and speak out loud and work through his thought process out loud and he will find me and say Mrs. Stevens, can we go in the hallway? Mrs Stevens, we need to talk this out. And almost I, I’m almost always able to pull him and work whatever they’re doing in the English class, which is usually comprehend, expressive and receptive language, written language and work with him then.
FRANCES ( 00:16:26): Yeah. No, that makes sense. and it’s, it is good and I love that you do push in and pull out. And for those that don’t know, pull out is when the student goes into your office and push in is when you go into the student’s classroom. And so, and there should, I, I mean, I would say there should always be that balance because in your office, it’s that one on one and in the classroom is where they apply the skills they learn in your office.
SHERYL ( 00:16:52): 1000%. Exactly. And I would also say, you know, it’s also great in the classroom working on some of that, those pragmatic skills and being able to wait their turn, raise their hand, engage in group work and group discussion. So I get to practice a lot of that in the classroom, which is really great.
FRANCES ( 00:17:16): Yeah. And so for people that don’t know, receptive language is when you hear the language and processing. I do it all the time. That’s why I like to remind you and expressive language is getting the thoughts out in words or on paper. And the pragmatics I want to move into the pragmatics.
SHERYL ( 00:17:33): Yes, please.
FRANCES ( 00:17:34): So I know like when I was a teacher many, many moons ago, I’m not gonna date myself. Pragmatic. They would say it’s social skills, it’s not school based. So I know, it’s totally shifted now and most schools I know, at least in our area, the DMV area, they’re, they are qualifying children for pragmatics. What is like, how, how can parents push the schools to evaluate for pragmatics or to get, get them themselves, get their children to qualify?
SHERYL ( 00:18:04): Yes. So that’s a great question. So, if a parent is seeing their child struggle socially and then they’re getting reports back from the school that they are not, they’re not contributing to any group work. They are talking out of turn or they’re using inappropriate language. This is when a concern arises and when the key to getting speech therapy in a school system, like I keep saying is that it has to negatively impact their academic performance. So once there’s an indication of that, then the parent can say, ok, it’s, I see it at home, I see it socially. My child doesn’t really have many friends or they’re having a difficult time with their friend group and now the teacher is reporting it. I want to move forward and get my child evaluated. And that’s when the child would go through the special, you know, the special education team, the resource teacher of special education, that’s who they would contact and get the process started.
FRANCES ( 00:19:13): And that’s, you just gave me another idea for educational impact. Is that if a child is not able to participate or do group work because of the pragmatic skills, that’s the educational impact that you push for. because I know schools like to give a lot of pushback, not because the speech therapists want to, but the, the schools just give pushback sometimes and parents have to fight for it. And that’s part of the reason I do. The show is like, give you ideas of what you can fight for.
SHERYL ( 00:19:42): Yes, and the parent should fight for it. And the parent, especially if they have, you could reach out to their speech pathologist at the school specifically and say these are my concerns. You know, I want my child evaluated or I see that the testing doesn’t show it, but there is this impact, just talk to the speech pathologist. It’s me. I’m definitely gonna try and push for services for that for your child. So, it’s so important to advocate for your child even, you know, maybe it’ll work, maybe it won’t but always try, always put it out there because you, you never know. And trust your gut.
FRANCES ( 00:20:27): I always, always trust your gut. Right? Like I remember, with Chana, like it was, oh, you know, I had special ed teachers even say, oh, we’ll wait and see and, and she’ll catch up soon. I’m like, no, no, no, no, no, no, wait and see. Never gonna happen with me. Yeah, the sooner, the better.
SHERYL ( 00:20:42): Yes, the sooner the better. And, yeah, it’s just like I said, I just think it’s, you have to trust your instincts and go for it and fight for your child. I always say that I really, no matter what.
FRANCES ( 00:20:58): Yeah, exactly. I agree. And, you know, talk to professionals, watch shows, watch videos, you know, Google it and find those. Are there, like for developmental milestones, are there ones that parents should watch for? So, at a certain age they should be aware of things.
SHERYL ( 00:21:14): So you know, as an infant, you should watch, you want at about like nine months for your child to be babbling. You know, that’s always the start of this da da ba, ba, ba ba ba, those kinds of sounds and you know, there’s a range that’s, you know, within normal limits that you want to look for. So usually first words appear between 12 months and 18 months. If you’re seeing that your child doesn’t have any words yet or maybe is making very, very limited babbling sounds, that’s when you would want to kind of talk to your pediatrician. You also always want to get your child, make sure your pediatrician is screening your child’s hearing. That’s always the first thing you want to rule out with babies and even if they pass their infant, the screening when they’re born, the hearing screening, you know, the pediatrician should be, it’s usually protocol that they’re, they’re screening the hearing, maybe not as babies though. I don’t remember that actually. So as babies, but I don’t think so. As babies, that should be the first thing that should be ruled out. And, you know, if the hearing is fine, you know, they’ll refer you to an audiologist, get the hearing checked and then, if the hearing is ok, then I would move forward and call Infants and Toddlers Montgomery County. They’re wonderful and get an evaluation. Right. Yeah. Those are really the milestones.
FRANCES ( 00:22:42): Exactly. And if you’re not with, Montgomery County, you can Google, whatever your county school district district is and look for, depending on the child’s age, on which office to call because it changes at age three. I’m correct. Right?
SHERYL ( 00:22:58): Yes, at three years old, the babies, infants age out of early intervention. And, yeah. So that’s when you would call, there’s a different number to call. Yeah, for that.
FRANCES ( 00:23:10): I think it’s called Child Find.
SHERYL ( 00:23:11): It is Child Find, in MCPS. I don’t know what it is in other counties.
FRANCES ( 00:23:16): It’s different everywhere and it’s, they call it different everywhere and Child Find means so many different things.
SHERYL ( 00:23:23): Yeah, it does. I’m not even going to confuse the viewers because there’s a lot of different terms for Child Find.
FRANCES ( 00:23:32): The same as the acronyms we all use. That’s why.
SHERYL ( 00:23:34): Exactly. And they’re changing all the time. So I keep getting confused of what?
FRANCES ( 00:23:40): I have on my website, a free download of all the acronyms, I shouldn’t say all, what we could fit on two pages so we could have front and back and that’s it. I have it because parents, when they’re new, especially when something even with speech, you know, when, you know, our kid is 18 months, we don’t know, like, you know, if, unless you’re in the educational system or, you know, and have that knowledge, nobody knows who to call, nobody knows what they should be looking for. They trust the doctor they trust. And that’s when I always say trust the inner gut and Google it.
SHERYL ( 00:24:17): Yeah. So, and I, I agree and I love our pediatricians and they’re wonderful. but again, sometimes they’re like, don’t worry, it’ll happen, it’ll happen. I say, go, just go get your child tested if you’re concerned. If there’s any little concern that arises, just see, just see if, if they need, if they need a little extra help. And the wonderful thing about the little ones, at least in Montgomery County, I don’t know in other places is that they will come to your home, Infants and Toddlers, and your home, your daycare, provide services there, which is wonderful.
FRANCES ( 00:24:57): Right. Yeah, I know PG County and DC, you have to go to the testing site but services are, are push in. Yeah. So like I know for Infants and Toddlers in Montgomery County, it’s not so much as the one on one as it is teaching the parents. But you were saying you do private, teaching the parents how to do it because with speech it’s not a 30 minute, a week, an hour, a week thing, it’s daily, day for hours and hours in and out.
SHERYL ( 00:25:25): Correct. and it’s so important that that parent aspect and, you know, and it keeps, just to talk about the private practice. That’s one of the biggest benefits and things that I love about my private practice is that I could work one on one with the parents to in person, teach them strategies, provide activities and homework so that they can work with their child at home and know what they’re looking for and know how to elicit certain sounds. And that’s one of the benefits of the private therapy. And that’s what I love about it because again, I see that progress and I always tell parents my goal is not to prolong this. I want your child to get the services, meet their goals and then go on their merry way like we are not gonna prolong this as long longer than we need to.
FRANCES ( 00:26:14): The way it should be because with speech because I get that a lot of times from potential clients about they’re trying to take away my child’s IEP because they said, you know, and it’s, but with speech just like with occupational therapy, sometimes it’s ok because once you hit that point, you’re good.
SHERYL ( 00:26:34): And you want to celebrate that. A lot of parents get very worried and nervous when they hear, oh oh they’re gonna, they’re, they’re gonna drop speech or they’re gonna drop OT and I say no, no, no. This is a wonderful thing. It is celebrating your, your child met the goals and they’re doing wonderfully and they’re carrying it over and I know it’s like a clutch and you, you want your child to always be watched and looked over and get everything they need. But you got to celebrate those wins also and just be so happy when your child does meet, meet their goals.
FRANCES ( 00:27:04): And I’m assuming people, parents can call you like if they don’t want to go through the school, like how do you, when you do evaluations, do you help them? Do you write your reports and help them to be able to get the services in school?
SHERYL ( 00:27:18): So, yes. So that’s one of the things that I do, I always please, I want, I would love, I encourage people to reach out to me, email, call me. I don’t charge anything for an initial consultation. I want to hear what your concerns are and so I can guide you. Sometimes it’s, I’ll say you don’t even need me right now. Your concerns are valid but it’s normal and here’s some strategies and if they don’t work, call me in a month. Sometimes I hear the concerns and I say, ok, I think there might be more than speech going on. Here’s some other resources and people to reach out to. Of course, I can do the speech and language evaluation, but it’s important to reach out to these people. And I also, like I said, encourage the parents to reach out to the schools. What are the teachers saying? Are there any concerns arising there? Ask for support in the school, get your child evaluated in the school. And if they’re not gonna do that and the parent, the schools aren’t seeing any concerns, that’s when I, I will do the speech and language evaluation, I will provide all the services. But I’m always about teaming up and getting that child all the services they need because sometimes it is just speech and language but sometimes it’s not, sometimes there’s more to it and it’s important that those resources are provided for parents so that they can get all the support they need.
FRANCES ( 00:28:50): Yeah. And that’s one thing I always say is don’t take no for an answer. When it’s an initial evaluation through the schools don’t take wait and see and don’t take no, you push, push, push. And I’ve had a lot of clients call me because the school keeps saying no. And once I walk in and ask for the independent educational evaluation all of a sudden they’re like, oh, no, we’ll test.
SHERYL ( 00:29:11): Right. It’s like, really, what’s, it’s no skin off your back. Test the child. Let’s just see. I think, yeah, I think that’s, I love that the parents use you, like that they have you as the advocate. and, you know, and I’ve also offered parents if you need help reaching out through the, to the schools, this is what you should say, this is who you should reach out to. That’s also some services that I could help provide with. Because it is so important, the support of the school is so important. Private schools, sometimes it’s a little more difficult, they don’t always have those services. which is, you know, when we have to kind of seek more outside resources. But when there’s public schools, there are a lot of resources in house, that’s an important thing to know as well.
FRANCES ( 00:30:04): And I think I’m right that students that are enrolled in private school can still get services for speech through their home school.
SHERYL ( 00:30:12): Correct. So that’s exactly right. So if a child is enrolled in a private school, but they’re zoned for a certain school within Montgomery County, they can reach out to that home school that they’re zoned for and say, ok, my child goes to this private school, but I am concerned that this is going on. Can you test my child? And that school, their home school can test the child and provide services.
FRANCES ( 00:30:40): Yep. And as I say, don’t take no for an answer. Correct. Because, because they often like, and I don’t know, I mean, I know why, because in some schools it, they’re overwhelmed, like, I know there’s some speech pathologists that have like, two or three schools that they’re managing. Correct. So, it’s, I, I don’t know how they do that.
SHERYL ( 00:31:01): It’s overwhelming. I have two schools that I manage. One of the schools I am the only speech pathologist there. The other school, there’s three other speech pathologists that I team up with. Yeah, so it is, it is hard to manage. It’s, it’s, it was really rough over COVID. There were so many students and so many concerns that arose and limited hiring and it was like, kind of crazy. We’re finally getting back into getting the right amount of speech therapists at the school so that we can split caseloads so that our caseloads are a little bit more manageable. And so that’s pretty good news.
FRANCES ( 00:31:40): And I’ve heard that a lot that during COVID didn’t get speech services and, schools trying to say, oh, we’ll make it up like, no, you’re not gonna make up a year giving double services because it’s not, you’re not gonna get like, if like, yes, more services is better, but sometimes like, no, we want independent.
SHERYL ( 00:32:01): Correct. You can pay for it. Right. Yeah, exactly. I was gonna say sometimes the school systems do mess up and then they need to make that up.
FRANCES ( 00:32:10): Right. And I, I mean, I’ve had a lot of school systems say flat out. Like, look, we don’t have a speech, we didn’t have a speech from September to December. This is the amount of hours we’re gonna give it to you right now. Authorization. No problem. Sometimes parents just need to know to ask for it.
SHERYL ( 00:32:27): Correct. Correct. I think that’s kind of the theme of our session is like, please, like as a parent, it is your role to advocate for your child any little concern, whether it be speech, whether it be something physical, social, emotional, you know your child best, that’s when you need to go and like the child can’t always help themselves and especially if they’re little, you need to go and, and reach out and find those resources for your child.
FRANCES ( 00:32:57): And it’s funny, I remember, as a new parent with my kids that, I always, having been a teacher and been in a situation, I didn’t want to be that parent and then I took a step back and said, yes, I do because who else is gonna be that parent for my child? And if I don’t speak up and I don’t fight and I don’t do it, then it’s not going to happen sometimes.
SHERYL ( 00:33:23): And there’s a way to do it. It doesn’t always have to be an aggressive, you know, you don’t have to be aggressive about it. It’s, there’s, it’s really important to be gracious and know that the school really does want to help your child. And so, you know, it’s not always a fight, I’m saying you gotta fight for your child, but it’s not always a fight. Sometimes you reach out and this school is happy to evaluate your child or, you know, as long as you’re gracious and grateful and let the school system know. Listen, I have this concern. You’re the, you’re the professionals. I need your help. I think there’s a way of doing it and it’s important to, to let your teachers and speech therapists and everyone who works in the school system know that you are appreciative of their help. And but you, they’re the ones that could help you.
FRANCES ( 00:34:10): And I say that a also a lot when I go into an IEP meeting, I don’t come in adversarial. I don’t come in. I’m the lawyer. Listen to me. I’ll state the facts of where we are. I’ll state, you know, we appreciate everything you’re trying to do. You know, but let’s find what’s working. So yeah, that’s, you know, it’s, it’s start nice and then if you have to go that other way, you go the other way, but most of the time starting nice works.
SHERYL ( 00:34:40): Yeah, I think niceness goes a long way. It definitely does. Yeah.
FRANCES ( 00:34:47): So I know you said you’re in Montgomery County, Maryland? You like, I don’t know, just, licensing for SLP. Can you do outside of the state or just in Maryland?
SHERYL ( 00:34:57): I am like, I have a national license. every speech pathologist really should have their national license. And then you have to also apply for individual licenses through individual states. So I am licensed specifically in Maryland, DC and New York because I worked in New York for a long time. but it is, it just depends on the speech pathologist and where you’ve applied to, to get your license and then keep it up.
FRANCES ( 00:35:22): Got it. So it’s similar to the bar, like I’m, I’m DC Maryland and Florida because I went to law school in Florida. So how can people reach you? Like, what if they’re saying, wait, I don’t know. Can I, can I have a consultation? What do I do? How can people reach out to you?
SHERYL ( 00:35:36): Yes. So my website is sherylstevens.com. You could see my name on the, on the screen here. Sheryl Stevens one word dot com. That’s my website. You could email me through there. All my contact information, my phone number, my email is on there, what services I provide. And, you know, anything that, any questions should be, you should be able to get answered through that website and if not contact me through there. I’m very easily accessible and I will respond within 24 hours for sure. Call me or email me. Oh, perfect.
FRANCES ( 00:36:16): The links will be below so that it’s really easy. They could just click it. It’s, you know, I know, I know we have talked for hours on this and we can, but it looks like it’s time we need to wrap up. Thank you so much for being on the show and for everything you shared with the audience.
SHERYL ( 00:36:34): Thank you so much for having me. It’s as always, it’s so wonderful speaking with you. It really is so. Thank you.
VOICEOVER ( 00:36:42): You’ve been listening to Stress-Free IEPTM. With your host Frances Shefter. Remember you do not need to do it all alone. You can reach Frances through ShefterLaw.com where prior episodes are also posted. Thank you for your positive reviews, comments and sharing the show with others through YouTube, LinkedIn, Apple Podcast, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher and more.
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