In this episode of Stress-Free IEPTM, Frances Shefter speaks with Lavaunda Roundtree, an academic therapist, who provides specialized instruction for students and adults with dyslexia and other challenging reading difficulties.
Frances Shefter is an Education Attorney and Advocate who is committed to helping her clients have a Stress-Free IEP experience. In each podcast, Frances interviews inspiring people to share information, educate you, empower you and help you get the knowledge you need.
VOICEOVER ( 00:00:00): Welcome to Stress-Free IEPTM. You do not need to do it all alone with your host Frances Shefter, Principal of Shefter Law, she streams a show live on Facebook on Tuesdays at noon Eastern, get more details and catch prior episodes at www.ShefterLaw.com. The Stress-Free IEPTM video podcast is also posted on YouTube and LinkedIn and you can listen to episodes through Apple podcasts, Spotify, Google podcasts, Stitcher and more. Now, here’s the host of Stress-Free IEPTM Frances Shefter.
FRANCES ( 00:00:38): Hello, everyone and welcome to our show today. I have an extra special guest who I’m so excited to have on because similar to me, she has a Master’s Degree in special education and she was a teacher for several years. So she has a different perspective as well. Lavaunda Roundtree from Educational Support Services. Lavaunda, please introduce yourself.
LAVAUNDA ( 00:01:01): Thank you so much. Yes, I’m Lavaunda Roundtree, as she said, um and I am so excited to be here. I absolutely was a special educator in one of the public school systems here in Maryland. Um and I am not doing that anymore. I’m doing something that’s even more fun. So, thank you so much for having me.
FRANCES ( 00:01:19): Of course. Yeah. You said more fun. Academic therapist. Absolutely. Yeah. So, tell me more about that because everybody’s like, academic therapist, what is that?
LAVAUNDA ( 00:01:28): Yeah. So I get that question a lot. So, just in general academic therapy or an academic therapist as someone who’s been trained, intensely trained, um, in a particular subject area, usually reading or mathematics. Um, and there’s most of the time it’s a multisensory type of instruction but it’s a more intense instruction outside of what’s given to you. Normally. Um a therapist actually has to go through a practical. Mine was 700 hours supervised practicum. Yeah, to really to even receive that certification. But you have to, you know, show that you were able to demonstrate these practices in order to have a student excel. So it is beyond the normal just tutoring. Um which is which I’ve done some of that. I still do some of that, but most of my students are students who need academic therapy. Yeah, I can tell you a little bit about how I got into that. So…
FRANCES ( 00:02:32): I was gonna ask real quick before you go into that just for if anybody doesn’t understand what a practicum is. That’s kind of like an internship, right?
LAVAUNDA ( 00:02:40): Yes, that’s an internship. Yeah. So yeah, so I guess in different fields it’s different. Practicum, internship. Yeah, same thing.
FRANCES ( 00:02:49): Perfect. Awesome. So, yes, tell us, how did you get into academic therapy?
LAVAUNDA ( 00:02:54): So yeah, interesting journey. So I, um, when I was teaching as a special educator, uh every school that I went to or every you teaching different schools, every classroom I had, there was always that one kid who didn’t progress when it came to the reading instruction. Right. And I’m just like, okay, I’m a special educator. Right. I’m supposed to be moving kids who, you know, have difficulties in reading, but there was always that one kid, it was just not working. So I’m like, okay, well, let me pull out this trick, let me pull out this tip. So I’m pulling things out of my trick bag, right? To apply to this one kid and it still wasn’t working. So, so I’ve got five kids moving, one isn’t working. Four kids moving, one isn’t moving. It’s just like, oh my gosh. So anyway, um after doing this for several years using all the tricks and it wasn’t working, you know, still remembering the faces. I still remember those faces now to this day of those students who were not able to progress. But I found out about this thing called dyslexia and I had never heard of it before. It’s like, well, let me just go find out what this interest meeting was about. Now, mind you, this was a long time ago, you know, I don’t wanna date myself. But um, this was back, there was a program, it’s now called the Dyslexia Tutoring Program. But when I started it was called Mayday. And so I said, well, let me find out more about this. And in doing that, I learned that. Okay. I never even heard of this before. You know, I am a special educator. Why didn’t I know about this? And especially going through the training, like, you know, being you getting a degree, like why haven’t I heard about this? Um And so that’s what I did. I started my journey there. Uh and I quickly realized that all those tricks and tips that I was using didn’t work because teaching reading isn’t magic. You know what I mean? There’s nothing magically delicious about it, right? And so um I learned that there is, there’s a bit of science to this thing for teaching struggling readers. And so instead of tricks I get to use my knowledge um to help students learn how to read, especially those students who are just differently abled, right? Teaching them how to read. And so now that I have that um I’m now currently doing academic therapy with students one on one. But another reason why I did it too was um I also saw that in my community, you just didn’t hear about this, at least back at that time, it’s totally different now. Okay. But at that time, that wasn’t happening, you know, in my community. And so if a student didn’t know how to read, oh, well, it’s just kind of, you know, what happened you know, it’s just a non reader. It’s always gonna need help or not, you know, never gonna get a job. Even going to dyslexia conferences, you just didn’t see, you just didn’t see people who look like me and dyslexia touches every kid. Right. Dyslexia doesn’t, it knows no color, knows no ethnicity, no religion. It just doesn’t, you know. And so I think that in order to, for all of us to know about it, you know, somebody had to be there to tell everyone. Right? Um And so that everyone can get that same assistance and help. And so that was second reason. So, you know, have some folks and be able to bring it to my community with some knowledge. You don’t just want to say dyslexia and you don’t know what to say or what to do, you know what’s said about it. And in addition, the final thing is that I love helping the underdog, right? I just love it. You know, I love those kids when they say, oh, he’ll never read or she’ll never read that. Okay? It’s a dare to me, right? You’re daring me. You’re daring me to, that you’re daring me to show you what’s gonna happen with this kid. So I love those cases, especially when they tell, when they say, oh, the school that the teachers said that he’ll never read, she’ll never read. Okay. We’ll see. Let’s show them.
FRANCES ( 00:06:56): Yeah, I love that because that’s me also. I mean, that’s what my, my whole firm is based on and my Youtube channel and this show is to show people like what else is out there. Because surprisingly enough, even today I get people saying, there’s education attorneys that can help us with this? People don’t know. And then with academic therapy and I, you know, with reading, with dyslexia, it’s, it’s like the new, although now they’re going into 2E more, but the dyslexia is, you know, new because when I was in school, everybody thought dyslexia was just flipping letters. They didn’t know the true, dating myself as well back then. But yeah, dyslexia, I mean, and it’s so different and I’m not sure I don’t wanna put you on the spot or anything. But like in teaching, when you were teaching and as a special educator, were you able to use the techniques that a dyslexic child needs in the classroom to help the child?
LAVAUNDA ( 00:07:58): So, yes, after, after I received all of my training, I did bring that training into the classroom. However, it was difficult, it wasn’t easy because, you know, people like, for instance, okay, in the school system, you have to teach, you know, they use certain reading programs and that’s fine. I can use a program that’s fine. Um, but I use all the other knowledge I’ve learned and brought that to the program. But what happens sometimes of course is okay, you know, let’s say, let’s just say for example, there is ABC reading program and um, the school says okay for the first month, this is where you need to be, you need to be on set one. Okay. But by the time we reach December, you should be on set three. Well, it just doesn’t work like that. There are students, if you have a reading group, every student in that reading class, that reading intervention class is still on a different level. And so what I found myself doing of course because I have the knowledge I’m able to look and look at, you know, see what children are doing, how they’re responding. And from that, you can tell exactly what they need. And so wanting to give all six of my children, some of my students at the same time, what they need is difficult because this student, all of them need a phonological awareness. Let’s say for instance, phonological awareness. However, I mean, they need assistance in phonological awareness, but they’re all the different, you know, on different levels even in that before we even get to, you know, the actual reading part. And so um that’s what was difficult. But the one thing I can say is that even though it would appear is if I moved slower, they had such a strong foundation so that when the next teacher came in and started reading intervention, they were able to move quickly. Um And so that was for me, for me I was always trying to build that foundation because reading does not improve. You can have a kid in reading intervention classes and that’s fine. They do work. I’m not saying they don’t work. However, if your child has holes in their, in the foundation, it doesn’t matter. There’s always going to be weakness, weaknesses and you don’t have to have them if you do the right thing, you know, um, the right thing the first time. So if you start, I mean, especially when you’re talking older kids, the older kids, the foundation is just kind of rocky. You know, if they’re struggling and reading, they have a weak foundation. Of course, it’s always say, you know, you know, the early you do it, the earlier you do this the better. Okay. So that’s just real. But for kids who are always middle and high school, you know, it’s just you have to build that foundation before you get to, you know, it’s, you know, bigger words and, you know, fluent reading.
FRANCES ( 00:10:47): And at that point in middle school and high school, like you have that ,the content that you need. Um And, and that, that kicks back to something like I hate when schools say, oh, let’s wait and see, they’ll catch up, right? Like, no, this is the time we need to teach them! If we don’t get the foundation and the skills now when is it going to be taught to them?
LAVAUNDA ( 00:11:12): You lose kids, you lose kids when you do that. So the older they are, you just start to lose them and they become just so distant. They’re just so I don’t, they’re just broken by that time. When you keep waiting, you keep waiting. Their expectation is that they’re going to continue to fail. That is their expectation. And so they get to at some point they don’t even try anymore, you know. And so that’s what you don’t want to do. So I understand when sometimes they say, let’s wait and see. Let’s wait and see. But I can admonish every parent, everyone who’s listening, do not wait and see. Please don’t wait, the longer you wait, the harder it will be just, please don’t wait and just listen to that inner, you know, something’s kind of nagging at you.
FRANCES ( 00:11:57): I say it all the time, the parent’s gut.
LAVAUNDA ( 00:11:59): Yeah, just go for it, ask, if they’re not, if you’re still not getting, especially after a year you’re still not getting, they’re still not hearing you look for outside help. Don’t wait. Okay. I know we expect, oh, the school is supposed to, but if the school is not, do not wait for them, you do what you need to do for your child.
FRANCES ( 00:12:17): Exactly. And that’s, you know, I’ve, I’ve counseled clients often on, we can get a perfect IEP, I can do that. No problem. We can get it. However, especially for our older children with dyslexia, they don’t have the resources that… your child’s gonna miss too much of the regular day to really teach the foundation that they need to know. So, you know, I tell people, like you can hire me, I’ll get you a perfect IEP or you can take that money and hire an independent tutor, academic therapist and get the foundation skills.
LAVAUNDA ( 00:12:52): Absolutely.
FRANCES ( 00:12:54): Because unfortunately, well, you know, schools have to provide faith, free and appropriate public education. Right. Not the best. As long as you’re progressing somewhat, you know, it’s good enough.
LAVAUNDA ( 00:13:05): Yeah. Very good. I’m glad you said that because you’re right. They, I think that’s a lot of times and I’m not saying they shouldn’t, but a lot of times parents have the expectation and it’s just appropriate, you know, and so.
FRANCES ( 00:13:20): And it’s, it’s interesting when you went into about the training for the academic therapy because I remember so I did my undergrad in early childhood and I was a teacher. I was a reading specialist. No extra training. Nothing. Right? Okay, I’m a reading specialist now. And then I remember I went back to get certified in special ed and do my Master’s and I was learning all these skills and I’m like, why didn’t we learn this for teaching in general? Right. Like, absolutely. If classrooms did this more, we wouldn’t have as many issues.
LAVAUNDA ( 00:13:57): Absolutely. Absolutely. And I’m just grateful now that they are doing that now. But just think about the years of like, you know, when you and I were teaching, we started like this, it just wasn’t available and all the folks that we could have, I’m not saying they’re not getting help and I don’t know what’s happened to them, but we could have saved so many people. Like this is stuff that should have been done, should have been in just your regular, you know, program for being, you know, having a degree. But it just wasn’t. So, I mean, they’re doing that now and I’m grateful they’re doing that now. But it just wasn’t like that at that time. And so we still have people who, you know, as a result of that, um, who are still suffering. Right.
FRANCES ( 00:14:41): Exactly. And I, um, I was just thinking about it that, um, I lost my train of thought. Oh, the skills training. So, reading specialists learn how to teach reading, special education, special, you know, special educators, learn how to teach special ed. There’s not one that teaches both.
LAVAUNDA ( 00:14:59): Exactly. You’re, you’re absolutely right. Yeah. And that’s where you come in and that’s where I come in. Yeah. But even, you know, for me, like, like I had to go outside, I had to go outside to get my training, you know, it was extremely expensive and extremely time consuming, which I’m not upset about but it is a lot of work. Um, and so that’s what you had to do to get the information that you probably should have gotten in the university. But you didn’t and, you know, no slight on universities or anything like that. Um, but yeah, it’s just, um, that’s where I come in. And so, yeah.
FRANCES ( 00:15:32): No, I love it. And then I think you touched on for adults also because I know a lot of adults that don’t like to read and chances are they probably have dyslexia but because of when they were in school, way back it wasn’t talked about and it was pushed into the rug. Exactly. Can you help adults?
LAVAUNDA ( 00:15:54): Absolutely. I have no age limit. Um, I do. Um, I haven’t had an adult lately and I’m sure that’s for various reasons, just especially to, because, well, the thing about this, what I find in adult students that I have had in the past, they were working really great jobs, excellent, you know, fantastic jobs. But they hit a roadblock at a certain point when something very public happened to them. And, and that’s usually when I got those adult students, um, for an adult, I guess sometimes it can be kind of embarrassing, like, you know, to not know what a sound is or whatever. But again, that’s where someone like an academic therapist would come in. So, therapy is that when we’re talking about therapy versus tutoring, they are different. And so, um, as an academic therapist, there are, there is an emotional factor or that we have to deal with coming from, you know, our students. And so you have to be, you know, very understanding about that and let them know you, okay, you’re an adult. It’s, you know, it’s a bit of a struggle but let’s just fix it. Let’s move on. We’re not judging. Let’s move on and go past that. So, yeah, I have no age limit.
FRANCES ( 00:17:04): I love that. You said that because that’s, that’s one of my biggest things recently is that children with, neurodiverse children, think differently. Their brain works differently. And what frustrates me is “they’re not normal”. And like, for adults that can’t read, there’s nothing wrong with them. The school system failed them, you know, and it’s just, I, I, you know, I was talking to somebody the other day about ADHD and about how, you know, I joke around that litigated, a litigator attorney can’t not to have ADHD because in the courtroom we have to pay attention to the judge and the jury and the witness and what you’re gonna say next and like, jump all over the place. And I had somebody telling me she’s like, yeah, when I had this one job, I was the best at it because I could hyper focus and catch every detail because of her ADHD. And it’s just our school systems as great as they are here in Maryland, it’s not, they’re still not perfect and they still need to go back to focusing on where children excel. Not everybody is gonna be a great reader, not everybody is going to be great at math. It’s okay. Find your, you know, find what’s your specialty and build up on that instead of, oh, well, you can’t do that. You can’t do that. You can’t do that and you’re beating this child down. I don’t know if you heard this or not, but I heard once that third grade is kind of the age, if you don’t have a child loving learning and wanting to learn more by third grade, chances are you’re not gonna get that child back into the education fully.
LAVAUNDA ( 00:18:57): Um I, well, I haven’t heard third grade in that regard, I’ve heard um with regard to teaching how you need to catch them by the third grade. And so even with that statement, if you need to catch them by the third grade, then you can’t be in 1st and 2nd grade saying, well, let’s just wait and see. So if there’s an issue in first grade, kindergarten, if there’s an issue there, you need to catch it then so by the time they get to third grade, it is definitely more, it’s difficult. Okay, it becomes harder um at that point, but it’s not impossible but it does, it’s, it requires more work, it is more difficult.
FRANCES ( 00:19:42): And you know what? You’re right because that, that does make more sense because when I see clients, when clients come to me for help, when they’re having issues, it’s usually third grade because the curriculum gets harder and then you see the difficulties but okay now you have to go back and teach the foundation. But as you said, pick it up in kindergarten. And I love that you said it, because I say it all the time. Trust your gut. It’s there for a reason. Moms, dads, parents, guardians. If something doesn’t feel right, trust your gut. Get out there. Look, ask questions, you know, ask the school, check out Youtube videos, watch, you know, reach out to people, get help because you can fight the school so much. But is that really the best use of time and energy?
LAVAUNDA ( 00:20:30): Exactly. And I totally agree with that. Why put it there? You know. Um, and I know this is not where we were going with this, but I do want to say this is that some of these, some of the issues that our students have, like when they go to school, you can prevent them. Not prevent them, but you can, at least even if you’re not sure a lot of times until kids, you know, get to school that there may be an issue. Um, but what you want to do is start early when they’re babies and when, you know, they’re in preschool, those ages, you know, play with them, you know, do… When we were younger, when I was younger, I just, when I was younger. Okay. So nursery rhymes were a big thing. So that’s what you did, you know, even the patty cake, patty cake baker’s man, you know, bake me a cake as fast as you can. So there’s rhyming, you know, there’s a little bit you got that, you know, da da da da da da. So when I do that, there’s some syllabication in there, you know, dividing of syllables – make me a cake as fast as you can. So all of that stuff, um those things that we did way back in the day, those things work, you know.
FRANCES ( 00:21:40): Right. The Dr. Seuss books. I am Sam. Green eggs and ham. Exactly. Exactly. Right.
LAVAUNDA ( 00:21:43): Talk to your children. That PSA announcement they had a public, uh commercial. That was, that woman was in the grocery store, what color is this? Green green. What is this, peas? You know, she was doing that and you saw at the end of the commercial, she was talking to her child, that stuff is necessary for, you know, language development. Do those things.
FRANCES ( 00:22:00): Right. And it’s, you know, I’m gonna bring up a friend of mine again who’s reading specialist. She was babysitting my child once, who was six months old and she’s holding the baby, you know, and reading a book to her. I’m like reading already? She’s like, yes, why wouldn’t you? And, you know, you don’t think about it because how much do they know? But you’re turning the pages and seeing the print, just the exposure is just so helpful at such an early, late, early age. I remember like, I know like some of the schools I taught in were the inner city schools and a lot of times, you know, the parents didn’t have the best education and the parents didn’t know how to parent. Um, and again, in some cultures, some areas it’s like, well, you know, I’m an adult. I should know how to parent, like, don’t know to reach out, to help and don’t know, there’s help out there, like the mommy and me classes, you know, um, and, and learn how to, how to teach your child basically and how to give your child that, that running start. Um Right. And you said like most, a lot of times children aren’t identified until they reach school because they don’t know, who do they have to compare with? If they’re not going out and having friends groups and having play dates and all of that and if they’re not going to preschool because they’re stay at home mom, which is fine is great. But see what’s going on out there and find play dates, socialize.
LAVAUNDA ( 00:23:31): Yeah, definitely admonish it. Get, you know, find a group, you know, definitely find a group because it just, you know, so they, because it’s not just okay. Again, we know the play groups, groups are for you. They’re playing, you know, developing and building relationships. But however, you know, as another side note, it’s language development. Your, this, your child is hearing other kids speak, you know, and how to respond and all of that. So it all impacts, you know, the whole being of a child.
FRANCES ( 00:24:01): And I’m the mom or dad, because it’s, your kids are playing and what do moms and dads do? They talk about, oh, my gosh. I can’t get my child to sleep. I can’t, you know, if somebody says, oh, try this trick and you’re learning how to parent better. Absolutely. Because, you know, there’s so many different things and every child you have, even in the same household learns differently. So what you’re doing for one, for potty training is not going to work for the other. So let’s find other skills, right? And it’s important, I mean, I say it all the time. Parenting is hard. Parenting is hard when you have neurotypical kids, add the neurodiversity and the other non, you know, I don’t want to say non standard way of learning or doing things and it just adds another level of what we as parents need to do.
LAVAUNDA ( 00:24:57): Absolutely.
FRANCES ( 00:24:58): Do you work with parents to teach them how to, how to like reinforce what you’ve taught?
LAVAUNDA ( 00:25:04): I do, I do do some of it. So some of my most severe kids, I do not try to, um, I don’t do it with my most severe kids. I’ll just say that. I don’t do it with my most severe kids because um, first of all, reading is daunting, you know, even a few words for some of my most severe, or it’s just daunting. So they have their daunting hour with me and, but not only the daunting for the child it’s also for the parent, it’s hard, it’s very difficult. So when I come into that space of the ones, the kids who are most severe, I don’t ask the parents to do anything. Let, let that remain with me. But as they begin to make progress and begin to feel more confident then we’ll add a few activities, you know what I mean? Um, you know, and it could be something as simple as, you know, okay, just do this, you know, one or two minutes, you know, activity with them for sounds or, you know, whatever, but I will do that. But only, only for my light work students when I say light workers. Dyslexia is a spectrum, you know, so you have mild cases, moderate and you have severe. Um and every and everyone in between those. Um and so, um like I said, it just depends. Um but most of the time, most of my students, most of mine are the more moderate to severe. So I’m very limited with regard to what I give a parent to do in that aspect. That’s just being honest.
FRANCES ( 00:26:32): No, that makes sense. I mean, because again, parents have a hard enough time, you know, like I pay somebody to clean my house, I’m not doing it, you know, like pay somebody to teach my child to read because even though I’m a teacher, I don’t have, I don’t have the patience for my child. Um And so, you know, that, that actually brought me to something that I was thinking about. Do children need to have the label, the testing to say they’re dyslexic to come see you and start services?
LAVAUNDA ( 00:27:05): Um, not necessarily, I mean, if someone can come to me and say, hey, you know, I’m seeing this and I really, I’ve been to the school, they won’t do this, they won’t do that. So don’t, we don’t need to do that because I do my own assessment. It’s not a formal, but I do my I do my own assessments. I do do that because I need to know really what it is and if I feel like you do need a label, you know, the thing about this is that I’m not, we’re not labeling for labeling sake because labeling can be a little, it can be advantageous especially when you’re in the public school, you know, it can get you some accommodations with you, you know, just something to help your student along while they’re getting the appropriate instruction, not just appropriate, appropriate for him or her, right? So it can’t just be getting some extra instructions so you can get the accommodations because you have this thing, this label. Alright, but it doesn’t mean it’s gonna ride with them, you know, for the rest of their lives, alright? So um but they don’t need to have a label to come to me. We can figure some things out and you know most of the time I know a student, you know, when someone comes to me if they have dyslexia. Alright, you can kind of tell, there’s some tell tells, and not just the B D reversals that’s out okay, because not every student with dyslexia does that. Um, as a matter of fact, most of them don’t. Um, so there’s certain things we’re looking at certain things you look for. Um just because of my experience, I’m like, yeah, this kid presents as a kid with dyslexia, I could say that right. But I would encourage, you know, getting an assessment if you have to do it on the outside. Um I always help parents try to figure out a way like if you can’t do it all private, let’s mingle some public and private testing as a way to do that too.
FRANCES ( 00:28:45): I have a video of a Youtube channel on what do you do if you ask the school to evaluate your child, and they say no? They can’t technically do that, you know, I love that. So you do an assessment and figure out what’s going on and so you can individualize your plans with each child for what they need. So if like I’m just thinking um like if, if a parent knows their child’s a little bit behind, you know, because like whatever the little things from kindergarten are coming home and they’re not getting it, should they just come see you, would that make more sense sometimes than trying to get the school to evaluate?
LAVAUNDA ( 00:29:26): I think, I think, I mean, here’s the thing. So, if you come to me, at least I can lay out some things you should do. Right. Because sometimes when parents come, they’re not sure, they’re not sure what to do. Okay. I see this, the scores are continually low but then that way, okay. So I can look at, I can look at the grades, I can definitely say okay. Yeah, here’s where a kid is falling short when I, you know, look at those tests, here’s where they’re falling short. And this is where some of these things look like, or at least according to the school where, you know, they’re falling short in the reading part. Um, so they can certainly come to me. I do free consultations, um, a 30 minute consultation for free. Um, and those are, and I actually ask for those things. So if they want to do a 30 minute consultation to figure some things out, right. At least get a plan. Like, what do I do next? They can absolutely come to me with those results. Absolutely.
FRANCES ( 00:30:15): Gotcha. Yeah, it makes sense because like, again, as I said, it can be hard, expensive, stressful, all the other things trying to fight the school when yes, you might eventually get what you want, but you’ve just lost all that time, you know.
LAVAUNDA ( 00:30:33): Exactly.
FRANCES ( 00:30:35): Put the resources, and I say it all the time once, once school becomes not as scary and more comfortable and your child becomes more confident in school, it’s amazing how things at home get so much better.
LAVAUNDA ( 00:30:51): Oh, my gosh. Yes. Yes. I’ve heard that so many times.
FRANCES ( 00:30:56): Because I think of it as adults when we have a stressful day at work and we can’t get anything right. And we can’t get anything right. We can’t get anything right, how’s our, you know, behavior when we get home and what are we doing? What do our children have to do to do that?
LAVAUNDA ( 00:31:10): So we, yeah, I think that you’re, you’re what? And I’m glad you said that too because I think as adults, by the time you reach adulthood and things like that, you know, we tend to forget and the children now it just seems to me are experiencing a lot more stress. I don’t say it’s more than ours, but it just, we have to remember that it was stressful, remember what it was like for us to be stressful. I mean, I remember some very stressful teachers when I was coming up like, you know, this, oh God, it was awful. So, um, you know, um, the, you know, the, you know, students, they’re experiencing these same things, you know, and just a lot of, especially now, like they have no idea what in the world is going on after going through this pandemic age of teaching. Just think about, you know, now everybody’s trying to throw things. You gotta know this. You have to know that you have to know. This is just, and that’s even for the cute is just, you know, they’re not neurodiverse just they’re struggling, you know. Um, and so yeah, people are gonna respond because if they’re stressed, they’re gonna respond so as a parent, you know, I know you have to look out for your own life, but now as a parent you’re responsible for lives, not just yours, but the ones that, you know, that are growing up in your home. And so it does take a lot of work and yeah.
FRANCES ( 00:32:27): And people forget, I think, I mean, this pandemic was, you know, it was worldwide. There was no way to protect our children. Our children heard and saw COVID people die and how stressful that is for a child of any age. You know, it’s stressful for us as adults and that you’re putting that stress on the child also with everything else. Like that’s a whole another topic we could talk about letting them know. Right. It’s okay. It’s okay. Um, so is there something like, if you were to have a parent and you just wanted them to really know something or to understand about what you do? What is like the most important thing that you think you want parents to take away from this podcast?
LAVAUNDA ( 00:33:17): Well, the first thing I want them to really take away about their own child is that your child is extremely intelligent. That is the first thing because you know, are the students that come to you are usually they’re already broken down. Their parents are broken down. So there’s nothing wrong with your child, there’s nothing wrong. Your child just is differently abled. Just, they’re just different. And so the instruction that they usually get at school, you know, it’s just not different. They’re trying to fit themselves into a world or an institution that only, let’s say, for instance, they only deal with squares where your child is round. So they’re trying to constantly fit themselves into that. So it doesn’t, it’s not a mark of, you know, they’re not, you know, stupid or not intelligent because they don’t fit into the space. Okay, so that your child’s intelligent, your child needs to, whatever gift your child has, cultivate that gift. That gift can be a stress reliever. It can also be their moneymaker when they’re an adult. Number three, please get the help you need. Find somebody who will give free consultation. Please do it. The training you know, that especially someone like me goes through is the absolute guarantee to help you if someone tells you though, that I can get your child on grade level in three months, run, because that is not true. It is not the truth. So just run from that person. But yes, your child can do it. Your child is a reader. That’s my motto. Every child is a reader. Everyone is a reader.
FRANCES ( 00:34:52): And I want to add one thing: parents, you did not do anything wrong. You are parenting the best you can. This is just the way your child is. Every child is different and I hate when parents are like, how did I screw up my child? You know what did I do? nothing. You didn’t. This is the way it is.
LAVAUNDA ( 00:35:15): Can I please add one more? Of course, do not compare your children. Do not compare your child to another child in your home or anybody else, don’t do it. They’re already suffering with that at school. Please don’t do that. Sorry.
FRANCES ( 00:35:30): Definitely, no, that’s perfect. You know, like I know why can’t you be more like your sister? You don’t realize how hard that is. Especially because okay, like you said, one has one talent, one has a different talent. So because she’s not like your sister like this is her talent and so like you’re right, cultivate that to help with the self-esteem. This has been so awesome. I am so glad we met and I was able to bring you on my show. Is there anyone that you can think?
LAVAUNDA ( 00:36:05): I’m sorry, I’m so sorry.
FRANCES ( 00:36:08): At least she was clothed because we’ve had that happen. Not on my show they believe, but it has happened before, you know, oops um in today’s day and age, it happens. But is there anyone else like I’m always looking for people that, that when I meet somebody that’s great. I know you know other great people. Is there anyone else that you think might be a good guest on the show or might want to give a shout out to?
LAVAUNDA ( 00:36:36): Okay. I’m thinking so. Definitely. Oh, I don’t know. Um There’s a parent that I talk to um kind of frequent. Her name is Liz Hemlin. I don’t know if you’ve heard, you may know her, but well, let me not say that because Liz is just, she’s miss social, however, but she is um Liz Hemlin is a great advocate. She’s a parent. She’s an excellent advocate. Um There’s also, uh let’s see, Winifred Winston. I know her. She’s also a great advocate for parents as well. That’s awesome.
FRANCES ( 00:37:10): Yeah, because even though it’s similar to what I do, it’s not, I say it all the time, it’s, I might not click with you and that’s okay. There’s nothing wrong with you. There’s nothing wrong with me. Let’s find somebody that you do click with and that’s okay.
LAVAUNDA ( 00:37:24): I totally agree.
FRANCES ( 00:37:26): So, thank you so much and thank you for being on the show. I look forward to talking to you soon.
VOICEOVER ( 00:37:34): You’ve been listening to Stress-Free IEPTM. With your host Frances Shefter. Remember you do not need to do it all alone. You can reach Frances through ShefterLaw.com where prior episodes are also posted. Thank you for your positive reviews, comments and sharing the show with others through YouTube, LinkedIn, Apple Podcast, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher and more.
Stress Free IEP™ with Frances Shefter and Lavaunda Roundtree
In this episode of Stress-Free IEPTM, Frances Shefter speaks with Lavaunda Roundtree, an academic therapist, who provides specialized instruction for students and adults with dyslexia and other challenging reading difficulties.
Stress-Free IEPTM:
Frances Shefter is an Education Attorney and Advocate who is committed to helping her clients have a Stress-Free IEP experience. In each podcast, Frances interviews inspiring people to share information, educate you, empower you and help you get the knowledge you need.
Watch more episodes of Stress-FreeTM on YouTube.
Connect and learn more from your host, Frances Shefter:
VOICEOVER ( 00:00:00): Welcome to Stress-Free IEPTM. You do not need to do it all alone with your host Frances Shefter, Principal of Shefter Law, she streams a show live on Facebook on Tuesdays at noon Eastern, get more details and catch prior episodes at www.ShefterLaw.com. The Stress-Free IEPTM video podcast is also posted on YouTube and LinkedIn and you can listen to episodes through Apple podcasts, Spotify, Google podcasts, Stitcher and more. Now, here’s the host of Stress-Free IEPTM Frances Shefter.
FRANCES ( 00:00:38): Hello, everyone and welcome to our show today. I have an extra special guest who I’m so excited to have on because similar to me, she has a Master’s Degree in special education and she was a teacher for several years. So she has a different perspective as well. Lavaunda Roundtree from Educational Support Services. Lavaunda, please introduce yourself.
LAVAUNDA ( 00:01:01): Thank you so much. Yes, I’m Lavaunda Roundtree, as she said, um and I am so excited to be here. I absolutely was a special educator in one of the public school systems here in Maryland. Um and I am not doing that anymore. I’m doing something that’s even more fun. So, thank you so much for having me.
FRANCES ( 00:01:19): Of course. Yeah. You said more fun. Academic therapist. Absolutely. Yeah. So, tell me more about that because everybody’s like, academic therapist, what is that?
LAVAUNDA ( 00:01:28): Yeah. So I get that question a lot. So, just in general academic therapy or an academic therapist as someone who’s been trained, intensely trained, um, in a particular subject area, usually reading or mathematics. Um, and there’s most of the time it’s a multisensory type of instruction but it’s a more intense instruction outside of what’s given to you. Normally. Um a therapist actually has to go through a practical. Mine was 700 hours supervised practicum. Yeah, to really to even receive that certification. But you have to, you know, show that you were able to demonstrate these practices in order to have a student excel. So it is beyond the normal just tutoring. Um which is which I’ve done some of that. I still do some of that, but most of my students are students who need academic therapy. Yeah, I can tell you a little bit about how I got into that. So…
FRANCES ( 00:02:32): I was gonna ask real quick before you go into that just for if anybody doesn’t understand what a practicum is. That’s kind of like an internship, right?
LAVAUNDA ( 00:02:40): Yes, that’s an internship. Yeah. So yeah, so I guess in different fields it’s different. Practicum, internship. Yeah, same thing.
FRANCES ( 00:02:49): Perfect. Awesome. So, yes, tell us, how did you get into academic therapy?
LAVAUNDA ( 00:02:54): So yeah, interesting journey. So I, um, when I was teaching as a special educator, uh every school that I went to or every you teaching different schools, every classroom I had, there was always that one kid who didn’t progress when it came to the reading instruction. Right. And I’m just like, okay, I’m a special educator. Right. I’m supposed to be moving kids who, you know, have difficulties in reading, but there was always that one kid, it was just not working. So I’m like, okay, well, let me pull out this trick, let me pull out this tip. So I’m pulling things out of my trick bag, right? To apply to this one kid and it still wasn’t working. So, so I’ve got five kids moving, one isn’t working. Four kids moving, one isn’t moving. It’s just like, oh my gosh. So anyway, um after doing this for several years using all the tricks and it wasn’t working, you know, still remembering the faces. I still remember those faces now to this day of those students who were not able to progress. But I found out about this thing called dyslexia and I had never heard of it before. It’s like, well, let me just go find out what this interest meeting was about. Now, mind you, this was a long time ago, you know, I don’t wanna date myself. But um, this was back, there was a program, it’s now called the Dyslexia Tutoring Program. But when I started it was called Mayday. And so I said, well, let me find out more about this. And in doing that, I learned that. Okay. I never even heard of this before. You know, I am a special educator. Why didn’t I know about this? And especially going through the training, like, you know, being you getting a degree, like why haven’t I heard about this? Um And so that’s what I did. I started my journey there. Uh and I quickly realized that all those tricks and tips that I was using didn’t work because teaching reading isn’t magic. You know what I mean? There’s nothing magically delicious about it, right? And so um I learned that there is, there’s a bit of science to this thing for teaching struggling readers. And so instead of tricks I get to use my knowledge um to help students learn how to read, especially those students who are just differently abled, right? Teaching them how to read. And so now that I have that um I’m now currently doing academic therapy with students one on one. But another reason why I did it too was um I also saw that in my community, you just didn’t hear about this, at least back at that time, it’s totally different now. Okay. But at that time, that wasn’t happening, you know, in my community. And so if a student didn’t know how to read, oh, well, it’s just kind of, you know, what happened you know, it’s just a non reader. It’s always gonna need help or not, you know, never gonna get a job. Even going to dyslexia conferences, you just didn’t see, you just didn’t see people who look like me and dyslexia touches every kid. Right. Dyslexia doesn’t, it knows no color, knows no ethnicity, no religion. It just doesn’t, you know. And so I think that in order to, for all of us to know about it, you know, somebody had to be there to tell everyone. Right? Um And so that everyone can get that same assistance and help. And so that was second reason. So, you know, have some folks and be able to bring it to my community with some knowledge. You don’t just want to say dyslexia and you don’t know what to say or what to do, you know what’s said about it. And in addition, the final thing is that I love helping the underdog, right? I just love it. You know, I love those kids when they say, oh, he’ll never read or she’ll never read that. Okay? It’s a dare to me, right? You’re daring me. You’re daring me to, that you’re daring me to show you what’s gonna happen with this kid. So I love those cases, especially when they tell, when they say, oh, the school that the teachers said that he’ll never read, she’ll never read. Okay. We’ll see. Let’s show them.
FRANCES ( 00:06:56): Yeah, I love that because that’s me also. I mean, that’s what my, my whole firm is based on and my Youtube channel and this show is to show people like what else is out there. Because surprisingly enough, even today I get people saying, there’s education attorneys that can help us with this? People don’t know. And then with academic therapy and I, you know, with reading, with dyslexia, it’s, it’s like the new, although now they’re going into 2E more, but the dyslexia is, you know, new because when I was in school, everybody thought dyslexia was just flipping letters. They didn’t know the true, dating myself as well back then. But yeah, dyslexia, I mean, and it’s so different and I’m not sure I don’t wanna put you on the spot or anything. But like in teaching, when you were teaching and as a special educator, were you able to use the techniques that a dyslexic child needs in the classroom to help the child?
LAVAUNDA ( 00:07:58): So, yes, after, after I received all of my training, I did bring that training into the classroom. However, it was difficult, it wasn’t easy because, you know, people like, for instance, okay, in the school system, you have to teach, you know, they use certain reading programs and that’s fine. I can use a program that’s fine. Um, but I use all the other knowledge I’ve learned and brought that to the program. But what happens sometimes of course is okay, you know, let’s say, let’s just say for example, there is ABC reading program and um, the school says okay for the first month, this is where you need to be, you need to be on set one. Okay. But by the time we reach December, you should be on set three. Well, it just doesn’t work like that. There are students, if you have a reading group, every student in that reading class, that reading intervention class is still on a different level. And so what I found myself doing of course because I have the knowledge I’m able to look and look at, you know, see what children are doing, how they’re responding. And from that, you can tell exactly what they need. And so wanting to give all six of my children, some of my students at the same time, what they need is difficult because this student, all of them need a phonological awareness. Let’s say for instance, phonological awareness. However, I mean, they need assistance in phonological awareness, but they’re all the different, you know, on different levels even in that before we even get to, you know, the actual reading part. And so um that’s what was difficult. But the one thing I can say is that even though it would appear is if I moved slower, they had such a strong foundation so that when the next teacher came in and started reading intervention, they were able to move quickly. Um And so that was for me, for me I was always trying to build that foundation because reading does not improve. You can have a kid in reading intervention classes and that’s fine. They do work. I’m not saying they don’t work. However, if your child has holes in their, in the foundation, it doesn’t matter. There’s always going to be weakness, weaknesses and you don’t have to have them if you do the right thing, you know, um, the right thing the first time. So if you start, I mean, especially when you’re talking older kids, the older kids, the foundation is just kind of rocky. You know, if they’re struggling and reading, they have a weak foundation. Of course, it’s always say, you know, you know, the early you do it, the earlier you do this the better. Okay. So that’s just real. But for kids who are always middle and high school, you know, it’s just you have to build that foundation before you get to, you know, it’s, you know, bigger words and, you know, fluent reading.
FRANCES ( 00:10:47): And at that point in middle school and high school, like you have that ,the content that you need. Um And, and that, that kicks back to something like I hate when schools say, oh, let’s wait and see, they’ll catch up, right? Like, no, this is the time we need to teach them! If we don’t get the foundation and the skills now when is it going to be taught to them?
LAVAUNDA ( 00:11:12): You lose kids, you lose kids when you do that. So the older they are, you just start to lose them and they become just so distant. They’re just so I don’t, they’re just broken by that time. When you keep waiting, you keep waiting. Their expectation is that they’re going to continue to fail. That is their expectation. And so they get to at some point they don’t even try anymore, you know. And so that’s what you don’t want to do. So I understand when sometimes they say, let’s wait and see. Let’s wait and see. But I can admonish every parent, everyone who’s listening, do not wait and see. Please don’t wait, the longer you wait, the harder it will be just, please don’t wait and just listen to that inner, you know, something’s kind of nagging at you.
FRANCES ( 00:11:57): I say it all the time, the parent’s gut.
LAVAUNDA ( 00:11:59): Yeah, just go for it, ask, if they’re not, if you’re still not getting, especially after a year you’re still not getting, they’re still not hearing you look for outside help. Don’t wait. Okay. I know we expect, oh, the school is supposed to, but if the school is not, do not wait for them, you do what you need to do for your child.
FRANCES ( 00:12:17): Exactly. And that’s, you know, I’ve, I’ve counseled clients often on, we can get a perfect IEP, I can do that. No problem. We can get it. However, especially for our older children with dyslexia, they don’t have the resources that… your child’s gonna miss too much of the regular day to really teach the foundation that they need to know. So, you know, I tell people, like you can hire me, I’ll get you a perfect IEP or you can take that money and hire an independent tutor, academic therapist and get the foundation skills.
LAVAUNDA ( 00:12:52): Absolutely.
FRANCES ( 00:12:54): Because unfortunately, well, you know, schools have to provide faith, free and appropriate public education. Right. Not the best. As long as you’re progressing somewhat, you know, it’s good enough.
LAVAUNDA ( 00:13:05): Yeah. Very good. I’m glad you said that because you’re right. They, I think that’s a lot of times and I’m not saying they shouldn’t, but a lot of times parents have the expectation and it’s just appropriate, you know, and so.
FRANCES ( 00:13:20): And it’s, it’s interesting when you went into about the training for the academic therapy because I remember so I did my undergrad in early childhood and I was a teacher. I was a reading specialist. No extra training. Nothing. Right? Okay, I’m a reading specialist now. And then I remember I went back to get certified in special ed and do my Master’s and I was learning all these skills and I’m like, why didn’t we learn this for teaching in general? Right. Like, absolutely. If classrooms did this more, we wouldn’t have as many issues.
LAVAUNDA ( 00:13:57): Absolutely. Absolutely. And I’m just grateful now that they are doing that now. But just think about the years of like, you know, when you and I were teaching, we started like this, it just wasn’t available and all the folks that we could have, I’m not saying they’re not getting help and I don’t know what’s happened to them, but we could have saved so many people. Like this is stuff that should have been done, should have been in just your regular, you know, program for being, you know, having a degree. But it just wasn’t. So, I mean, they’re doing that now and I’m grateful they’re doing that now. But it just wasn’t like that at that time. And so we still have people who, you know, as a result of that, um, who are still suffering. Right.
FRANCES ( 00:14:41): Exactly. And I, um, I was just thinking about it that, um, I lost my train of thought. Oh, the skills training. So, reading specialists learn how to teach reading, special education, special, you know, special educators, learn how to teach special ed. There’s not one that teaches both.
LAVAUNDA ( 00:14:59): Exactly. You’re, you’re absolutely right. Yeah. And that’s where you come in and that’s where I come in. Yeah. But even, you know, for me, like, like I had to go outside, I had to go outside to get my training, you know, it was extremely expensive and extremely time consuming, which I’m not upset about but it is a lot of work. Um, and so that’s what you had to do to get the information that you probably should have gotten in the university. But you didn’t and, you know, no slight on universities or anything like that. Um, but yeah, it’s just, um, that’s where I come in. And so, yeah.
FRANCES ( 00:15:32): No, I love it. And then I think you touched on for adults also because I know a lot of adults that don’t like to read and chances are they probably have dyslexia but because of when they were in school, way back it wasn’t talked about and it was pushed into the rug. Exactly. Can you help adults?
LAVAUNDA ( 00:15:54): Absolutely. I have no age limit. Um, I do. Um, I haven’t had an adult lately and I’m sure that’s for various reasons, just especially to, because, well, the thing about this, what I find in adult students that I have had in the past, they were working really great jobs, excellent, you know, fantastic jobs. But they hit a roadblock at a certain point when something very public happened to them. And, and that’s usually when I got those adult students, um, for an adult, I guess sometimes it can be kind of embarrassing, like, you know, to not know what a sound is or whatever. But again, that’s where someone like an academic therapist would come in. So, therapy is that when we’re talking about therapy versus tutoring, they are different. And so, um, as an academic therapist, there are, there is an emotional factor or that we have to deal with coming from, you know, our students. And so you have to be, you know, very understanding about that and let them know you, okay, you’re an adult. It’s, you know, it’s a bit of a struggle but let’s just fix it. Let’s move on. We’re not judging. Let’s move on and go past that. So, yeah, I have no age limit.
FRANCES ( 00:17:04): I love that. You said that because that’s, that’s one of my biggest things recently is that children with, neurodiverse children, think differently. Their brain works differently. And what frustrates me is “they’re not normal”. And like, for adults that can’t read, there’s nothing wrong with them. The school system failed them, you know, and it’s just, I, I, you know, I was talking to somebody the other day about ADHD and about how, you know, I joke around that litigated, a litigator attorney can’t not to have ADHD because in the courtroom we have to pay attention to the judge and the jury and the witness and what you’re gonna say next and like, jump all over the place. And I had somebody telling me she’s like, yeah, when I had this one job, I was the best at it because I could hyper focus and catch every detail because of her ADHD. And it’s just our school systems as great as they are here in Maryland, it’s not, they’re still not perfect and they still need to go back to focusing on where children excel. Not everybody is gonna be a great reader, not everybody is going to be great at math. It’s okay. Find your, you know, find what’s your specialty and build up on that instead of, oh, well, you can’t do that. You can’t do that. You can’t do that and you’re beating this child down. I don’t know if you heard this or not, but I heard once that third grade is kind of the age, if you don’t have a child loving learning and wanting to learn more by third grade, chances are you’re not gonna get that child back into the education fully.
LAVAUNDA ( 00:18:57): Um I, well, I haven’t heard third grade in that regard, I’ve heard um with regard to teaching how you need to catch them by the third grade. And so even with that statement, if you need to catch them by the third grade, then you can’t be in 1st and 2nd grade saying, well, let’s just wait and see. So if there’s an issue in first grade, kindergarten, if there’s an issue there, you need to catch it then so by the time they get to third grade, it is definitely more, it’s difficult. Okay, it becomes harder um at that point, but it’s not impossible but it does, it’s, it requires more work, it is more difficult.
FRANCES ( 00:19:42): And you know what? You’re right because that, that does make more sense because when I see clients, when clients come to me for help, when they’re having issues, it’s usually third grade because the curriculum gets harder and then you see the difficulties but okay now you have to go back and teach the foundation. But as you said, pick it up in kindergarten. And I love that you said it, because I say it all the time. Trust your gut. It’s there for a reason. Moms, dads, parents, guardians. If something doesn’t feel right, trust your gut. Get out there. Look, ask questions, you know, ask the school, check out Youtube videos, watch, you know, reach out to people, get help because you can fight the school so much. But is that really the best use of time and energy?
LAVAUNDA ( 00:20:30): Exactly. And I totally agree with that. Why put it there? You know. Um, and I know this is not where we were going with this, but I do want to say this is that some of these, some of the issues that our students have, like when they go to school, you can prevent them. Not prevent them, but you can, at least even if you’re not sure a lot of times until kids, you know, get to school that there may be an issue. Um, but what you want to do is start early when they’re babies and when, you know, they’re in preschool, those ages, you know, play with them, you know, do… When we were younger, when I was younger, I just, when I was younger. Okay. So nursery rhymes were a big thing. So that’s what you did, you know, even the patty cake, patty cake baker’s man, you know, bake me a cake as fast as you can. So there’s rhyming, you know, there’s a little bit you got that, you know, da da da da da da. So when I do that, there’s some syllabication in there, you know, dividing of syllables – make me a cake as fast as you can. So all of that stuff, um those things that we did way back in the day, those things work, you know.
FRANCES ( 00:21:40): Right. The Dr. Seuss books. I am Sam. Green eggs and ham. Exactly. Exactly. Right.
LAVAUNDA ( 00:21:43): Talk to your children. That PSA announcement they had a public, uh commercial. That was, that woman was in the grocery store, what color is this? Green green. What is this, peas? You know, she was doing that and you saw at the end of the commercial, she was talking to her child, that stuff is necessary for, you know, language development. Do those things.
FRANCES ( 00:22:00): Right. And it’s, you know, I’m gonna bring up a friend of mine again who’s reading specialist. She was babysitting my child once, who was six months old and she’s holding the baby, you know, and reading a book to her. I’m like reading already? She’s like, yes, why wouldn’t you? And, you know, you don’t think about it because how much do they know? But you’re turning the pages and seeing the print, just the exposure is just so helpful at such an early, late, early age. I remember like, I know like some of the schools I taught in were the inner city schools and a lot of times, you know, the parents didn’t have the best education and the parents didn’t know how to parent. Um, and again, in some cultures, some areas it’s like, well, you know, I’m an adult. I should know how to parent, like, don’t know to reach out, to help and don’t know, there’s help out there, like the mommy and me classes, you know, um, and, and learn how to, how to teach your child basically and how to give your child that, that running start. Um Right. And you said like most, a lot of times children aren’t identified until they reach school because they don’t know, who do they have to compare with? If they’re not going out and having friends groups and having play dates and all of that and if they’re not going to preschool because they’re stay at home mom, which is fine is great. But see what’s going on out there and find play dates, socialize.
LAVAUNDA ( 00:23:31): Yeah, definitely admonish it. Get, you know, find a group, you know, definitely find a group because it just, you know, so they, because it’s not just okay. Again, we know the play groups, groups are for you. They’re playing, you know, developing and building relationships. But however, you know, as another side note, it’s language development. Your, this, your child is hearing other kids speak, you know, and how to respond and all of that. So it all impacts, you know, the whole being of a child.
FRANCES ( 00:24:01): And I’m the mom or dad, because it’s, your kids are playing and what do moms and dads do? They talk about, oh, my gosh. I can’t get my child to sleep. I can’t, you know, if somebody says, oh, try this trick and you’re learning how to parent better. Absolutely. Because, you know, there’s so many different things and every child you have, even in the same household learns differently. So what you’re doing for one, for potty training is not going to work for the other. So let’s find other skills, right? And it’s important, I mean, I say it all the time. Parenting is hard. Parenting is hard when you have neurotypical kids, add the neurodiversity and the other non, you know, I don’t want to say non standard way of learning or doing things and it just adds another level of what we as parents need to do.
LAVAUNDA ( 00:24:57): Absolutely.
FRANCES ( 00:24:58): Do you work with parents to teach them how to, how to like reinforce what you’ve taught?
LAVAUNDA ( 00:25:04): I do, I do do some of it. So some of my most severe kids, I do not try to, um, I don’t do it with my most severe kids. I’ll just say that. I don’t do it with my most severe kids because um, first of all, reading is daunting, you know, even a few words for some of my most severe, or it’s just daunting. So they have their daunting hour with me and, but not only the daunting for the child it’s also for the parent, it’s hard, it’s very difficult. So when I come into that space of the ones, the kids who are most severe, I don’t ask the parents to do anything. Let, let that remain with me. But as they begin to make progress and begin to feel more confident then we’ll add a few activities, you know what I mean? Um, you know, and it could be something as simple as, you know, okay, just do this, you know, one or two minutes, you know, activity with them for sounds or, you know, whatever, but I will do that. But only, only for my light work students when I say light workers. Dyslexia is a spectrum, you know, so you have mild cases, moderate and you have severe. Um and every and everyone in between those. Um and so, um like I said, it just depends. Um but most of the time, most of my students, most of mine are the more moderate to severe. So I’m very limited with regard to what I give a parent to do in that aspect. That’s just being honest.
FRANCES ( 00:26:32): No, that makes sense. I mean, because again, parents have a hard enough time, you know, like I pay somebody to clean my house, I’m not doing it, you know, like pay somebody to teach my child to read because even though I’m a teacher, I don’t have, I don’t have the patience for my child. Um And so, you know, that, that actually brought me to something that I was thinking about. Do children need to have the label, the testing to say they’re dyslexic to come see you and start services?
LAVAUNDA ( 00:27:05): Um, not necessarily, I mean, if someone can come to me and say, hey, you know, I’m seeing this and I really, I’ve been to the school, they won’t do this, they won’t do that. So don’t, we don’t need to do that because I do my own assessment. It’s not a formal, but I do my I do my own assessments. I do do that because I need to know really what it is and if I feel like you do need a label, you know, the thing about this is that I’m not, we’re not labeling for labeling sake because labeling can be a little, it can be advantageous especially when you’re in the public school, you know, it can get you some accommodations with you, you know, just something to help your student along while they’re getting the appropriate instruction, not just appropriate, appropriate for him or her, right? So it can’t just be getting some extra instructions so you can get the accommodations because you have this thing, this label. Alright, but it doesn’t mean it’s gonna ride with them, you know, for the rest of their lives, alright? So um but they don’t need to have a label to come to me. We can figure some things out and you know most of the time I know a student, you know, when someone comes to me if they have dyslexia. Alright, you can kind of tell, there’s some tell tells, and not just the B D reversals that’s out okay, because not every student with dyslexia does that. Um, as a matter of fact, most of them don’t. Um, so there’s certain things we’re looking at certain things you look for. Um just because of my experience, I’m like, yeah, this kid presents as a kid with dyslexia, I could say that right. But I would encourage, you know, getting an assessment if you have to do it on the outside. Um I always help parents try to figure out a way like if you can’t do it all private, let’s mingle some public and private testing as a way to do that too.
FRANCES ( 00:28:45): I have a video of a Youtube channel on what do you do if you ask the school to evaluate your child, and they say no? They can’t technically do that, you know, I love that. So you do an assessment and figure out what’s going on and so you can individualize your plans with each child for what they need. So if like I’m just thinking um like if, if a parent knows their child’s a little bit behind, you know, because like whatever the little things from kindergarten are coming home and they’re not getting it, should they just come see you, would that make more sense sometimes than trying to get the school to evaluate?
LAVAUNDA ( 00:29:26): I think, I think, I mean, here’s the thing. So, if you come to me, at least I can lay out some things you should do. Right. Because sometimes when parents come, they’re not sure, they’re not sure what to do. Okay. I see this, the scores are continually low but then that way, okay. So I can look at, I can look at the grades, I can definitely say okay. Yeah, here’s where a kid is falling short when I, you know, look at those tests, here’s where they’re falling short. And this is where some of these things look like, or at least according to the school where, you know, they’re falling short in the reading part. Um, so they can certainly come to me. I do free consultations, um, a 30 minute consultation for free. Um, and those are, and I actually ask for those things. So if they want to do a 30 minute consultation to figure some things out, right. At least get a plan. Like, what do I do next? They can absolutely come to me with those results. Absolutely.
FRANCES ( 00:30:15): Gotcha. Yeah, it makes sense because like, again, as I said, it can be hard, expensive, stressful, all the other things trying to fight the school when yes, you might eventually get what you want, but you’ve just lost all that time, you know.
LAVAUNDA ( 00:30:33): Exactly.
FRANCES ( 00:30:35): Put the resources, and I say it all the time once, once school becomes not as scary and more comfortable and your child becomes more confident in school, it’s amazing how things at home get so much better.
LAVAUNDA ( 00:30:51): Oh, my gosh. Yes. Yes. I’ve heard that so many times.
FRANCES ( 00:30:56): Because I think of it as adults when we have a stressful day at work and we can’t get anything right. And we can’t get anything right. We can’t get anything right, how’s our, you know, behavior when we get home and what are we doing? What do our children have to do to do that?
LAVAUNDA ( 00:31:10): So we, yeah, I think that you’re, you’re what? And I’m glad you said that too because I think as adults, by the time you reach adulthood and things like that, you know, we tend to forget and the children now it just seems to me are experiencing a lot more stress. I don’t say it’s more than ours, but it just, we have to remember that it was stressful, remember what it was like for us to be stressful. I mean, I remember some very stressful teachers when I was coming up like, you know, this, oh God, it was awful. So, um, you know, um, the, you know, the, you know, students, they’re experiencing these same things, you know, and just a lot of, especially now, like they have no idea what in the world is going on after going through this pandemic age of teaching. Just think about, you know, now everybody’s trying to throw things. You gotta know this. You have to know that you have to know. This is just, and that’s even for the cute is just, you know, they’re not neurodiverse just they’re struggling, you know. Um, and so yeah, people are gonna respond because if they’re stressed, they’re gonna respond so as a parent, you know, I know you have to look out for your own life, but now as a parent you’re responsible for lives, not just yours, but the ones that, you know, that are growing up in your home. And so it does take a lot of work and yeah.
FRANCES ( 00:32:27): And people forget, I think, I mean, this pandemic was, you know, it was worldwide. There was no way to protect our children. Our children heard and saw COVID people die and how stressful that is for a child of any age. You know, it’s stressful for us as adults and that you’re putting that stress on the child also with everything else. Like that’s a whole another topic we could talk about letting them know. Right. It’s okay. It’s okay. Um, so is there something like, if you were to have a parent and you just wanted them to really know something or to understand about what you do? What is like the most important thing that you think you want parents to take away from this podcast?
LAVAUNDA ( 00:33:17): Well, the first thing I want them to really take away about their own child is that your child is extremely intelligent. That is the first thing because you know, are the students that come to you are usually they’re already broken down. Their parents are broken down. So there’s nothing wrong with your child, there’s nothing wrong. Your child just is differently abled. Just, they’re just different. And so the instruction that they usually get at school, you know, it’s just not different. They’re trying to fit themselves into a world or an institution that only, let’s say, for instance, they only deal with squares where your child is round. So they’re trying to constantly fit themselves into that. So it doesn’t, it’s not a mark of, you know, they’re not, you know, stupid or not intelligent because they don’t fit into the space. Okay, so that your child’s intelligent, your child needs to, whatever gift your child has, cultivate that gift. That gift can be a stress reliever. It can also be their moneymaker when they’re an adult. Number three, please get the help you need. Find somebody who will give free consultation. Please do it. The training you know, that especially someone like me goes through is the absolute guarantee to help you if someone tells you though, that I can get your child on grade level in three months, run, because that is not true. It is not the truth. So just run from that person. But yes, your child can do it. Your child is a reader. That’s my motto. Every child is a reader. Everyone is a reader.
FRANCES ( 00:34:52): And I want to add one thing: parents, you did not do anything wrong. You are parenting the best you can. This is just the way your child is. Every child is different and I hate when parents are like, how did I screw up my child? You know what did I do? nothing. You didn’t. This is the way it is.
LAVAUNDA ( 00:35:15): Can I please add one more? Of course, do not compare your children. Do not compare your child to another child in your home or anybody else, don’t do it. They’re already suffering with that at school. Please don’t do that. Sorry.
FRANCES ( 00:35:30): Definitely, no, that’s perfect. You know, like I know why can’t you be more like your sister? You don’t realize how hard that is. Especially because okay, like you said, one has one talent, one has a different talent. So because she’s not like your sister like this is her talent and so like you’re right, cultivate that to help with the self-esteem. This has been so awesome. I am so glad we met and I was able to bring you on my show. Is there anyone that you can think?
LAVAUNDA ( 00:36:05): I’m sorry, I’m so sorry.
FRANCES ( 00:36:08): At least she was clothed because we’ve had that happen. Not on my show they believe, but it has happened before, you know, oops um in today’s day and age, it happens. But is there anyone else like I’m always looking for people that, that when I meet somebody that’s great. I know you know other great people. Is there anyone else that you think might be a good guest on the show or might want to give a shout out to?
LAVAUNDA ( 00:36:36): Okay. I’m thinking so. Definitely. Oh, I don’t know. Um There’s a parent that I talk to um kind of frequent. Her name is Liz Hemlin. I don’t know if you’ve heard, you may know her, but well, let me not say that because Liz is just, she’s miss social, however, but she is um Liz Hemlin is a great advocate. She’s a parent. She’s an excellent advocate. Um There’s also, uh let’s see, Winifred Winston. I know her. She’s also a great advocate for parents as well. That’s awesome.
FRANCES ( 00:37:10): Yeah, because even though it’s similar to what I do, it’s not, I say it all the time, it’s, I might not click with you and that’s okay. There’s nothing wrong with you. There’s nothing wrong with me. Let’s find somebody that you do click with and that’s okay.
LAVAUNDA ( 00:37:24): I totally agree.
FRANCES ( 00:37:26): So, thank you so much and thank you for being on the show. I look forward to talking to you soon.
VOICEOVER ( 00:37:34): You’ve been listening to Stress-Free IEPTM. With your host Frances Shefter. Remember you do not need to do it all alone. You can reach Frances through ShefterLaw.com where prior episodes are also posted. Thank you for your positive reviews, comments and sharing the show with others through YouTube, LinkedIn, Apple Podcast, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher and more.
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