In this episode of Stress-Free IEP®, Frances Shefter speaks with Natalie Powell, a certified dyslexia specialist and certified educational therapist based in California. Natalie is the founder and CEO of Natalie LP Therapy, a company dedicated to providing individualized support and resources for dyslexic students. With her expertise in dyslexia and special education, Natalie offers valuable insights into navigating the challenges of supporting these students within the educational system.
Tune in to the episode to hear about:
Flexible Reading Levels: Offer flexible reading level options to empower dyslexic elementary students in book selection.
Individualized Support: Provide tailored support addressing the unique needs of each dyslexic student.
Strategic Resource Utilization: Use resource rooms strategically, ensuring clear objectives for maximum effectiveness.
Early Intervention: Prioritize early identification and intervention to mitigate academic challenges associated with dyslexia.
Advocacy and Awareness: Advocate for dyslexic students’ needs and raise awareness within educational systems.
Frances Shefter is an Education Attorney and Advocate who is committed to helping her clients have a Stress-Free IEP® experience. In each podcast, Frances interviews inspiring people to share information, educate you, empower you and help you get the knowledge you need.
Watch more episodes of Stress-Free IEP®:
On website: https://shefterlaw.com/blog
On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCff0foIeCETrWbtsQSDwckQ
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Voiceover (00:00:04): Welcome to Stress-Free IEP®. You do not need to do it all alone with your host, Frances Shefter, Principal of Shefter Law. You can get more details and catch prior episodes at www dot shefterlaw.com. The Stress-Free IEP® video podcast is also posted on youtube and linkedin and you can listen to episodes through Apple podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher and more. Now, here’s the host of Stress-Free IEP®. Frances Shefter.
Frances Shefter (00:00:40): Hello, everyone and welcome to our show. Today’s special guest is Natalie Powell who is a certified dyslexia specialist and a certified educational therapist based in California. So Natalie introduce yourself. Tell everyone a little bit about yourself.
Natalie Powell (00:00:59): Thanks for having me, Frances. Um So as you said, I’m a certified educational therapist and a certified dyslexia specialist. Um My office is in Placerville which is on the South Lake Tahoe side, kind of of northern California. But I have clients come to see me from as far as Fresno, Modesto, the Bay Area. Um San Jose. So up to three hours away because I am one of the only certified dyslexia specialists within my region. Um I offer wrap around dyslexia services. So what that means is I offer dyslexia treatment, assessment, advocacy, coaching presentations, all specific to dyslexia
Frances Shefter (00:01:45): and you just do services in person.
Natalie Powell (00:01:48): So I do all of the client with services that involve the Children in person. But I do offer coaching um virtually with people all over the world. I’ve coached people in Egypt, Australia, Hong Kong. So I, yeah, I love that. And then I do presentations in person or on zoom like for school districts, private schools, that kind of thing.
Frances Shefter (00:02:13): That’s so cool. I love that because like I say, I’m an international law firm also because I’ve had clients in Germany. Um, because the American based schools have to follow federal law here. So, um, but that, yeah, you know, you don’t think about it, I guess with dyslexia like that. Yes, it’s around in other countries as well.
Natalie Powell (00:02:33): Yes, exactly. Um, I, I’ve even had some people in Canada, um, all over. I even so I have a newsletter which has about 600 subscribers and the software that I use tells me where people are located when they’re opening the newsletter. And I have several people in the Netherlands. I have several in Sweden. I, I don’t know how that happened. But yeah, it’s, um, it’s definitely becoming a worldwide, more well known industry, the dyslexia services, right.
Frances Shefter (00:03:04): Which is good to know because I know it’s also, you know, it’s been around for the States but it’s been challenging until I would say the last few years of being able to get it on the IEP. Um, because unfortunately with dyslexia, if you don’t dig deep enough, it doesn’t show up and it doesn’t show up until you’re older. Right.
Natalie Powell (00:03:28): Yes. Uh, and this, this is the overarching issue really within my assessment practice. So a lot of the kids that I assess are older and have just kind of flown under the radar or they’ve been tested by, or maybe they were tested in first grade, they didn’t score below average school said they would be fine. They just needed time to catch up. And then by the time they’re in upper elementary, middle high school, they’re really struggling and I’m reassessing them and I’m finding they do have dyslexia but it’s mild but it’s still going to hinder them with being assigned the same things as non dyslexic peers.
Frances Shefter (00:04:11): Exactly. And I, I’m gonna love to get your input because I know for me with middle school and high school kids, I tell the families like, yes, you can pay me to get a perfect IEP in place. But honestly, you’re better off going to a dyslexia coach and because they can’t teach your child the way in middle school and high school that your child needs to be taught those basics and they’re going to miss content. So, if you spend the money on the backside, you know, outside to, to get the actual training the way it needs to be, it’s just going to be better, you know, money better spent.
Natalie Powell (00:04:47): Right. And unfortunately starting in middle school there is really no one on one dyslexia support offered. If a student gets an IEP, they go to resource, but it’s like a homework help session. You know, it’s a class, actual class. So you go to the class, it’s 30 kids and you just really do your homework. So any chance for actual intervention remediation is, is pretty much not, it’s not possible once kids get to sixth grade within the school setting.
Frances Shefter (00:05:20): Right. No. And, and that, and that’s why a lot of times I’ll tell people but, but it’s common, I mean, I see it third grade is really when it starts coming out. But what happens is like most of our, most of the kids with dyslexia are very, very bright and so they learn how to compensate and so they know something’s wrong but they’re using the context clues, they’re using the pictures, they’re listening to what other people are saying and that’s why you can’t see that they’re struggling.
Natalie Powell (00:05:51): Uh, another way that I have found they tend to compensate and I’m seeing this more and more and I, I don’t know why I always see these certain trends in my practice every few years. And right now it’s not only are they compensating with the content clues as you said, but context clues from the adult that they’re sitting with when they’re reading. So when I’m asking a student to sound out a word, they will look up halfway through sounding it out and finish sounding it out while they’re looking at me and we’re making eye contact. Right. So that’s not actually reading because reading is looking at a word. Right. So they are so in the habit of getting feedback from the adult that they’re sitting with to guide their decoding versus this is actually knowing the sounds. So if I make a face like they’re gonna say, 00, I made it, I did the wrong sound. Let me switch that vowel sound right. So they’re using you as context as I
Frances Shefter (00:06:52): don’t even think of that.
Natalie Powell (00:06:55): So that is something that I’m constantly working on with my students right now. I tell them, do not look at me. I hold my, I hold a piece of paper up in front of my face quite often because they are just, and they don’t even realize they’re doing this. But as you say, I mean, they’re clever and they’ve got to survive in the classroom. So they’re gonna pick up all these little compensatory strategies that really just become bad habits.
Frances Shefter (00:07:21): Yeah. And that’s also why it’s harder as they get older because they are habits that you now have to break. Um, yes. So what, like, so, I mean, with dyslexia, I know, like with IEPs and stuff you might need it for other, like the resource class is more for executive functioning is what I’ve seen taught at least around here. But like, what do you say would be the benefits or the drawbacks of that you have, have a child with dyslexia. Should parents go fight for the IEP or, or not? What do you think?
Natalie Powell (00:07:52): So, with the increasing awareness of dyslexia, parents are a little more savvy, I think, especially since COVID and they are googling what they should do. But I think the most common advice they come across when they’re Googling is fight for an IEP. Now, a lot of the time I’ll work with parents where they are very certain they want an IEP for their child and they actually know what an IEP is. So, you know, things are progressing from PRE COVID when a lot of parents asked me what that he was, right. But they aren’t clear on why they want it. They just know they, they should want it. So I, what I ask them is, well, what are you hoping to get out of the IEP? And what does that service look like at your school site? Because really the quality of instruction that you will get if your child has an IEP varies dramatically from school to school. At some schools still in California, there is no dyslexia specific support in resource even for kids that get an IEP in phonological awareness, right? So dyslexia, but they aren’t offering intervention for phonological awareness. Um There might still be some whole language elements in resource. It may just be more homework help, it may be whatever we’re printing off of teachers, pay teachers that day. So in that situation, when there isn’t something dyslexia specific that’s being delivered by someone with the proper training, I tell parents you may be better off with just a 504 because you don’t want to waste the child’s time and you don’t want to expose them to opportunities where you’re telling them it’s supposed to help them and they know that it’s not because then when you’re actually going to start them on dyslexia specific support, if you choose to pursue that, they’ll have already had some unsuccessful experiences working with adults that were supposed to help them. So you want to preserve their belief that there are people out there that can help them learn to read and that they can do this.
Frances Shefter (00:10:08): Yeah. No, that totally makes sense because, you know, for those that don’t know the difference between IEP and the 504 plan, it’s mainly the direct instruction. Does your child need specialized direct instruction? Meaning is there a goal? So, yes, we know the goal is, you know, working on sounding out words and nonsense words and all of that. But is, that’s something that as you said, that your school can even provide yes, legally they’re required to. But again, where we say all the time and it was a supreme court case, they only have to provide the Chevy, they don’t have to provide the Cadillac of services. And I feel better about saying that because it was in a Supreme Court ruling, you know, at first I was like, that’s not nice. But yeah, I mean, that’s the thing. And so, right, what does your child need like as parents if you’re even watching the show or looking, I can tell right now you guys are parents that want that Cadillac for your kids because it matters and it makes a difference. And so,
Natalie Powell (00:11:07): and you know, it differs also from state to state. So California is, is quite behind in this area. So as as I said, I mean, often the reality is that local parents who secure an IEP for their child, they fought very hard for that and then they find that the resource support that they’re getting isn’t actually working. So then they’re kind of baffled and they’re thinking, well, is this just how it’s gonna be? I mean, is my child always going to struggle with reading? And the answer is no, they absolutely can become successful readers, but that may not sadly be provided within the public school setting. And that’s when the work with you comes into play. I work with a lot of clients that are working with a lawyer or an advocate, um or parents really, they just decide to bite the bullet and get private support. Um So it’s it’s really, it’s, it’s so dependent on what the parents are able to provide. And it’s, it’s sad because one on one dyslexia specific services should be what you get when you get an IEP in reading. But so often you don’t,
Frances Shefter (00:12:17): but it can, and legally what they’re required to is there as long as they’re providing reading support by a certified teacher, that’s all they need, then they’re covered by the law. And, you know, it’s interesting you say working with a lot of lawyers and stuff of what you want, that’s a lot of what I do in my strategy sessions is I talk through with the parents of what their ultimate goal is because it’s very, very different what we do and what we get on an IEP. If your ultimate goal, if your ultimate goal is you want your child to stay at the in boundary school period, no matter what, you don’t want them changing. So then legally can we fight the school and say that they’re not implementing the IEP, right? Your kids not progressing, they need to provide more. Yes, legally we can. But what is that more going to look like? And
Natalie Powell (00:13:04): Right. Right.
Frances Shefter (00:13:05): Because it’s more restrictive environment usually, which means a special ed classroom, which is not what you want. So, so let’s look at where we are and what you want and then, OK, so then we can still get an IEP in place if they need it for other things, or 504. If it’s just that and then work at home, here’s a list of resources.
Natalie Powell (00:13:26): Right. Another thing that I’ve been running into is that as awareness of dyslexia is increasing and parents are wanting the testing for an IEP school psychologists are overburdened with all these assessments that they have to do. Right. So, a lot more kids are being qualified for 90 people with that, but they’re not hiring more trained resource teachers and they’re not investing in Orton Gillingham dyslexia specific support. So you end up with a small group which may have been a small group five years ago, but now a small group has 10 Children, which is also a problem. So it’s not only about making sure the school has someone trained and they’re using a dyslexia specific program, but how big is the group? Right? Because really one on one is the gold standard. Two on one is, is good and then pass to like even a group of three. There are no two Children with dyslexia that are exactly alike. Anyway. So the bigger the group, the less specialized you are in catering to each child’s need. And then sometimes these small groups, quote unquote group of 10 are led by an aid um who doesn’t have any training in dyslexia. Um I
Frances Shefter (00:14:50): also heard the lesson
Natalie Powell (00:14:52): right? Or they’ll give. So let’s just say the school is using a dyslexia specific curriculum. So this is something that I came across a couple of ago, the school was using a program called Spire, which for any parents listening, it’s similar to a Barton. Um It’s slow moving, very comprehensive. It is designed for kids with dyslexia and it has multi sensory elements. The main one is using letter tiles, so magnetic letter tiles to build words. So this school said, oh yeah, we’re using Spire but without the multisensory component. So I went into the resource, right. So I went into the resource room to do an observation. And I was noticing the small groups weren’t using the magnetic tiles and they were sitting right over there and I was saying, so do you use these? And they’re like, no, no, we don’t, we didn’t use them too much mess,
Frances Shefter (00:15:48): not doing the program.
Natalie Powell (00:15:50): Right. Right. And, and that’s the, I mean, you know, that’s probably arguably the most important part is learning to build words physically manipulating how words are made, breaking words apart and that is what they abbreviated. They were saying it was messy and it was too time consuming. And that’s the other thing. So the sessions were only 30 minutes. So they had to cut elements of the program and that’s what they cut. That’s ridiculous. I’m sure you’ve heard it many times
Frances Shefter (00:16:23): before. I know it. You know, it’s so funny because I, and I say it often to clients at, on my show in meetings like, I don’t know why I’m surprised anymore of what I hear happens in schools, what teachers have said what principals have said what they do, why they do it. Like, uh it still amazes me that there are people out there that just don’t, and, and I don’t want to knock the teacher is definitely not, but like, they just don’t get it. They have to do what their principals told them. They have to do what and principals have to follow central office and whoever’s making the decisions doesn’t understand what’s down here. And then the budget is involved as
Natalie Powell (00:17:01): much as we say, the budget,
Frances Shefter (00:17:04): you know, um and it’s sad but I mean, that being said, what we have in school systems now are tenfold better than what we had. Like, even when I was in elementary school because, you know, you know, when I was in elementary school, it was like, oh, you don’t want to do special education, you know, your kid will never go to college. You don’t want, you know, and they didn’t know what dyslexia was. They just thought it was like reversing letters. They didn’t understand the in depthness of dyslexia.
Natalie Powell (00:17:32): Yeah. So right now, I kind of think of it as what the tip of the iceberg, right? Kids are starting to get identified. E everything else kind of below the water line is still very problematic. What like what do you do once you qualify a student, there are so many supports that are not yet there. Um So for just to recap for parents, you definitely fight for the IEP. If you feel like the you’ve investigated the services that are offered two kids that get an IEP for dyslexia and your school is using a dyslexia specific program. They’re not taking out the multi sensory elements. The groups are not huge, these things all matter. Now for students that um can do outside support, it can be helpful to also have an IEP and to use resource as basically tutoring or review. So for example, students that come to me, it’s, it’s only once a week usually. So I can’t teach them everything. I have to be very targeted in my time with them. And you know, there’s a whole week that goes by between when I see them and when I see them. So it’s very helpful if they get some sort of review at school daily in resource, even if they’re not learning anything new just to prevent backsliding between sessions. So for kids with more severe dyslexia that are at risk of backsliding or where memory is a really big problem. I do often recommend that they do go to resource just as a review. Now, parents could review at home, but parents are very busy and it’s just, it’s so much better if that can just be taken care of during the school day after school hands off.
Frances Shefter (00:19:33): And I was just going to say and parents can’t always get their Children to do what they want. You know, because I was like, with my daughter, I talk about my kids all the time. Chana, who’s nine, the teacher had said saying that she wasn’t able to complete one of the assignments. If we could work on it over the weekend, it would be great. And I tried to get honest, you’re not a teacher. You don’t. And I’m like, but I used to be a teacher, like, even though I used to, but she’s like, I’ll work on it with my support. I’ll work on it with my support. Like she wants to work on it with school. So again, it’s yes we can. But what I also like to say is as parents, we have enough on our plates and to then take the teacher role of our child of now, this is another role that are, my parents is playing for me. And it’s just, it’s that special time with your child that should be spent playing games, doing something different, not stressing about the homework, stressing about the reading stuff.
Natalie Powell (00:20:33): Right. So it’s so helpful if that review can just be outsourced and built into the school day before the child’s really tired. So they come home and a lot of these kids are very stressed. They’re internalizing a lot of stress during the school day. You know, they don’t, don’t want to show that they’re embarrassed, they want to fit in with their peers. So they hold it all inside and then when they get home, unfortunately many parents tell me they melt down because that’s when they just let it all out. Right. So, you really just want parents to be able to be there and support their child emotionally and take all the academic stuff out if you can.
Frances Shefter (00:21:11): And what’s great about the resource room also is that even if it’s not, they’re not getting instruction, it’s whatever, it’s downtime for your child. And sometimes, you know, you think about it a six hour day, they get no downtime. You know, and I, like I had a client, we worked in two resource rooms because she needed those downtime in between when her brain was having to work so hard.
Natalie Powell (00:21:37): Yeah. So at that time can be a brain break too. Yeah. Absolutely. So, there are useful aspects. It’s just important for parents to, again, as you guys talk about in your consults really have a plan for what you’re hoping to get out of resource because it can be very helpful if it’s utilized very strategically.
Frances Shefter (00:21:59): Yeah, exactly. No, it makes sense. And that’s, and that’s again, again, the thing is what do you want for your child? All of us want something different. I mean, yes, we want our kids to be educated and to be, you know, good members of society and stuff. But like, what does that look like for you? What does that work for you. What does that look like for your child? Because that’s the other thing is some kids are going to do fine in the public school system, but the outside tutoring, some kids need that. A specific special ed school that teaches it wrap around. Um and what do you want it to look like and then reach out to the supports that can help you
Natalie Powell (00:22:34): and then something that parents also don’t know is, and I don’t know if this is universal, but just in California, I will speak to in middle school because resource is a class. Students in sixth grade don’t get an elective because their elective is automatically resource. So of course, student buy in is very important and many sixth graders feel upset and they feel like it’s not fair if they have to go to resource and they’re not getting elected. So again, going back to what I said about you want the child to, to participate in things where they are going to see the benefit. So they don’t lose their belief in them, improving people being able to help them, right? If they’re going to lose an elective, what they’re losing it for, better be really impactful, right? And if they’re going and it’s a homework call and kids are talking, they’re going to know it’s not helpful and that’s going to create a whole other problem with motivation which becomes, you know, a, a bigger issue in and of itself for middle schoolers. And then in California, in seventh grade, students get two electives. So automatically one of them is resource and then they only get the one elective. So sometimes what I recommend to parents is that they have their child tested for an IEP at the end of eighth grade. So the, the student isn’t missing out on any of the electives and they’re not doing the, the study hall resource, but they have the IEP going into high school because in high school it does tend to be pretty helpful and, and it has a, a kind of different layout that is very specific from school to school, but it’s not just you go to the class, it’s 30 kids are doing your homework. So that’s something parents can also think about if they don’t want their child to miss electives.
Frances Shefter (00:24:25): Yeah. No, that makes sense also because what is some, for some kids? It doesn’t matter that it’s sitting and doing homework and talking, that’s what they need and they don’t care about whatever, you know, pottery or woodworking or whatever and that works for them. But for other kids it’s like, no, I want, you know, I want to take whatever that elective is because I want to learn about that
Natalie Powell (00:24:47): or that’s where they feel successful. Right. For, for art, if that, that’s maybe their thing. So, so many important things to consider for parents. It’s a lot for parents
Frances Shefter (00:24:59): and that’s, you know, and that’s why it’s called an individualized education plan because each of our kids are different, even if they have the same coding, even if they have the same diagnosis, even if they have the same, similar scores, you know, like, it’s just not like everybody needs it differently.
Natalie Powell (00:25:15): Yes. Absolutely. And that’s why parents sometimes ask, do you do two on one sessions? And I, I don’t, because it really, it’s so difficult. I’ve tried it, but it’s hard because inevitably one child, even if it’s just slightly will be a little bit ahead of the other child. And when that happens, you, you feel yourself going to try to go in between, meet them in the middle, right? And it’s, it’s so difficult. Every, it’s just, there’s so much individual strengths, weaknesses, everything that come with dyslexia, every single case,
Frances Shefter (00:25:51): right. That makes sense. And earlier is better. I know you were saying with that of waiting to test and I’m like, always like, no, no, no, no, no. And I see the difference because so my kids, um, 1st and, and 4th grade, I had them both tested over the summer and both got diagnosed with dyslexia. The difference. Seeing my fourth grader and my first grade on what supports can be put in place is very different because my younger one is more than happy to get pulled out to work with a reading teacher. My older one is like, no, because then what happens is that she falls behind on the content. And so, like, ok, we get the private for her, you know, and again, like, what it looks like earlier is always better because the kids in kindergarten, 1st, 2nd grade, they’re not totally aware of. I’m different, getting pulled out yet.
Natalie Powell (00:26:41): Right. Right. And there’s still a lot of grouping that happens at that age anyway. So they might be doing centers, they might be getting pulled out, you know, for the actual individual reading testing. Like dr a, um, schools use different things but there are a lot, there’s a lot of coming and going and, and placing in groups and sometimes their ability groupings with, within the reading groups. So that is more, um, normalized. But as they get older peers are also more aware of who’s leaving the classroom, there can be, you know, a little social stigma and I don’t hear that about every school by any means, but some parents have told me, you know, my child’s embarrassed to leave class peers say, where are you going? Um. Right.
Frances Shefter (00:27:32): Exactly. It depends on who your kid is. Some, some own. It be like I’m going to get help because I, because my brain works different
Natalie Powell (00:27:38): or some are just so desperate for help. They don’t care. They’re like, I’m going to get help. I don’t want to stay in here for.
Frances Shefter (00:27:45): Exactly. But, and then some are like, they don’t want the, you know, they don’t want to look different and they want to fit in and that’s fine too. Um So I want to talk about accommodations a little bit because like, so to teach our, our the people that are listening because the whole thing about this show is to teach parents of what they can do so that they can try and do this stuff without us support. But if they can’t, then they’ll come to us. But like so accommodations for middle school, I mean, everybody knows the preferential seating extra time, the general stuff. Is there anything for like elementary school accommodation wise that you would recommend that that parents might not know about?
Natalie Powell (00:28:24): So for elementary school, um I actually reached out to a couple of clients uh that I’ve worked with in the past to say what has ended up working really well for your child since we worked together in terms of accommodations and one parent said flexibility with reading levels. And I thought that was one that I even would never have thought of, but that’s working really well for her son. So the school that her son goes to uses A R which I, I mean, I’m not super familiar. I, I think it’s like an FNP where, oh, they’re reading at a level J or they’re reading at a level 200 whatever. So the classroom has a leveled library where kids are only supposed to book browse within their level. So it can be very public because you need to go to your little book section and sometimes teachers will not let them read or check out a book from a higher level in the class library. So the accommodation there for him is that he can just choose whatever book he wants. So not only does it eliminate any kind of stigma, but it makes him feel free to be curious about books that might be above his level. And she said, you know, if it’s above his level, that’s fine, we’ll read it with him at home, we’ll support him. We’ll get the audio book if we need. But there’s a lot to be said for allowing the kids to access that higher level intellectual content just with support.
Frances Shefter (00:30:03): Yeah, I, I’m writing it down. I keep a bank. Right.
Natalie Powell (00:30:11): Um, and then by the same token, maybe he wants to read a book that’s too easy for him. That’s not necessarily a bad thing because you might finish the book and sometimes when I get frustrated, like, right. Right. They’ll just skip, skip, skip, you know, even if it’s a book that’s at their level, it’s gonna have words. They don’t know. So they might just be skipping to get through the book quicker. Or like a student. I assessed yesterday they may start a new book every single class period because they’re not, they’re not engaged. They’re finding them all too hard, too dense, not enough pictures. So they’re not getting that comprehension element of tracking a character, tracking events through a book. She reads chapter one of a new book every single day,
Frances Shefter (00:31:02): really good introductions.
Natalie Powell (00:31:04): She’s really good. Yeah. So those are against some unintended consequences of these really common systems that are meant to help readers. But with, with kids of dyslexia, it can actually hinder them. So I thought that was really good and then some others that I always recommend to clients. Um and I actually have a list of all these and I can provide it to you if parents want to download it from your site just as a reference, I’ll get a
Frances Shefter (00:31:32): link in the um in the show notes.
Natalie Powell (00:31:34): Um ok, so for student comfort, many are afraid of being called on to not only just to read loud but to give a math fact answer because math facts to me to spell a word out loud, just anything where they have to do something on command. They’re very nervous sometimes in class which adds a whole other layer because not only are they maybe struggling with the content, but now they’re also really nervous while they’re trying to learn the content. So it’s gonna make it even harder. So a really easy accommodation that no one’s ever had an issue with at a meeting and it’s no prep is just don’t call them a student without their hand raised. So simple,
Frances Shefter (00:32:20): you know, it’s interesting because I thought you were gonna go, what I do a lot of times is advanced notice before calling.
Natalie Powell (00:32:27): Ok. So, or ability to pass sometimes I say because teachers still do round robin and that’s, that’s a, a plan for the entire class. So it’s gonna be obvious if they’re going around and then, oh, we’re gonna skip. So and so. Right. So just option to pass
Frances Shefter (00:32:49): and that’s best practices anyway. Don’t, you know, like that teachers should probably be doing in the first place. Not saying should, I shouldn’t, should on teachers but, you know, but it’s just something, you know, that, that is so easy to put in place that just makes the classroom so much easier and probably behavior management too because if there’s other kids that are having anxiety about it, they might like, oh, no, it’s my turn. Let me misbehave so I can get out of the room, get out of this and I can avoid it. Right.
Natalie Powell (00:33:17): Right. Right. Or, you know, I was petrified of being called out without my hand raised in school and I don’t have dyslexia II, I just was really scared of this happening for some reason. So, while the other kids were reading, I was counting down to my turn, I would just be rehearsing whatever I needed to read and not really paying attention to everything else that’s happening.
Frances Shefter (00:33:40): Exactly. Exactly. Because you’re like, yep. Exactly. No, totally. And what, what am I thinking about going in advance? Um, So what else do you have others of like or even middle or high school?
Natalie Powell (00:33:52): So this one would be appropriate for middle school as well. And I mean, maybe even high school. So a second chance on math problems missed due to reversals. Now I’m thinking of reversals globally. So not just I write a number backwards, this could include reflections. So the student did the problem correctly. They wrote 12. The answer was 21. Let them fix that right? Because that’s not an understanding error. That’s a reversal and it’s part and parcel of dyslexia. So we don’t want to penalize for that. And there are many other ways that this can look in math. Like I had 1/6 grader, I was working with recently who was doing cross canceling with fractions and you know, he, he cross canceled but he wrote, he reduced them correctly but labeled the wrong fraction. So he reduced this one correctly. But then he wrote the new numbers over here. So he just, he got discombobulated there. So then of course, the answer was wrong. So doing things out of sequence or top to bottom, things like that. I consider all those reversals and I would always encourage teachers to just understand that is what happened. It’s not that they don’t understand what they’re supposed to do. They just had a little working memory blip.
Frances Shefter (00:35:26): Yeah. No, I like that. And that, I mean, one of the things that I’ve put on is, um, is alternative ways to show knowledge. So, doing it and then like having the child read it to you and then like, oh, wait, no, that’s not right. It’s supposed to be this instead.
Natalie Powell (00:35:42): Exactly. Um, another one I have is ability to leave school early or arrive late to work with a specialist. So again, this is something that it’s no prep, it’s just allowing something. Right. So, accommodating in a, in the true sense of the word. So I have some students that leave school early to come work with me. And that is, that’s partially because they’re more, they’re fresher when we’re not meeting at four, we’re meeting at two. Right. That makes a difference. But, but also in terms of the reality of scheduling and the, the 3 to 5 times lots are, they’re limited, right? And I’m not doing small groups. It’s one person that gets the 3 to 4 slot on a Monday and that’s who gets it. So, you know, some of my clients, you know, they’ve worked with a lawyer to secure, you know, private services when you find out that everyone’s after school schedule is booked. So just being flexible with, when the child can leave school makes a huge difference because that can be the difference between a child getting the help they need or, or not.
Frances Shefter (00:37:06): Right. Right.
Natalie Powell (00:37:08): Um, other ones allowing oral answers whenever possible, sitting in a quiet area of the classroom, which is often not the front row. I always suggest next to Quiet Piers with back to windows and classroom door. So minimizing the visual disturbances as well of people coming and going kids passing by looking through the window, all those peripheral things that can make it even harder to read when all that’s going on. Um And then some, oh go ahead.
Frances Shefter (00:37:47): Oh no, I was just gonna say we use pre preferential seating but a lot of times the schools will put prefer preferential seating as supplementary aid but won’t flesh it out. Clarify location of manner. So for what, what is it for that child does preferential seating mean should the child like for high schoolers and middle schoolers, should the child work with the teacher to determine what they think is best? Should it be selected peers are with them or not with them? You know, so that there’s, we know exactly what the child needs and flush it out that way.
Natalie Powell (00:38:22): That’s a good point because a lot of the accommodations that are kind of plug and play preferential seating extra time, things like that. They can be extremely helpful if they’re flushed out appropriately and if there’s a conversation between the teacher and the student of what needs to be more specific in that plan. So that’s a great idea also who they shouldn’t sit with? Right. Because sometimes there’s a peer where the two peers together are bad combination and there, there are so many nuances of what preferential means exactly. Um ok, so I was also gonna mention because parents might not know about this. Learning Ally access is a great accommodation to suggest it’s not really an accommodation, it’s just something that they could get through a 504 or an IEP. So Learning Ally is, it’s an app that reads audiobook, it reads ebook text as it’s highlighted. So it makes it easier to follow along with what you’re hearing. So you do get that visual component, which can have, you know, marginal effect on fluency because you’re actually seeing the word that’s being read to you. So there’s a little multisensory boost there. It can also help kids keep their attention on what they’re reading with that visual component. And it is a program that’s only for kids with what they call a, a print disability. So you have to be qualified or nominated for Learning Ally by professionals. So a lot of educational therapists can nominate students I can, but parents would then have to pay the fee to Learning Ally, which is I believe 100 and 20 a year. Whereas if they request learning ally access from their school, they could get it for free. And a lot of schools are learning allied members.
Frances Shefter (00:40:23): Got it. That makes sense. I didn’t even hear about that. I haven’t heard about that one before. So that
Natalie Powell (00:40:28): was really popular locally. And I think that’s what I was gonna say I like it.
Frances Shefter (00:40:33): That’s why I love working with people. You know, like I have people from all over the place on the show because something that’s here that we do normally might not be where you are and vice versa. You know,
Natalie Powell (00:40:44): that’s why I love doing the coaching with the people in different countries. It’s fascinating and, and even when I coach people from the east coast, they’re like, what is an educational therapist? Never heard of that. We don’t have those here.
Frances Shefter (00:40:57): Yes, we do.
Natalie Powell (00:40:58): I put that on the show. Ok, there you go.
Frances Shefter (00:41:01): Right. But, but again, that’s, that’s part of the reason of the show is that parents don’t know what’s out there and what’s available because they just, they don’t know how to find it, they don’t know what to ask and what, you know what I mean? Like it’s, it’s, you don’t know what you don’t know.
Natalie Powell (00:41:18): Um Just a couple more accommodations that clients responded saying so that I asked them, can you just ask your child what their favorite accommodation is? So I’m just gonna run through what some of the kids said. So being able to type all assignments, extra time for tests, time and a half for tests, extra time on assignments. Ok. There’s a theme here. They all are really liking the extra time um access to the school audio library. So again, kind of learning ally getting that audible access being not being penalized for spelling, including in a foreign language. Um being able to take tests and resources. So again, that’s a really purposeful way to use resource. Maybe you don’t think the reading intervention is going to work for your child. But they may really like taking a test in a quiet place with someone that can read the problems to them. So that can be a great use at that time. Um And then tests that they can write on. So typically once they get to middle school, you can’t write on the test. But that is super helpful for kids, dyslexia. Also being able to take home a test to see what you miss. Big trend locally is kids can’t take home graded tests. So I’ll ask, why did you get ad on your test? Don’t know. Right. You,
Frances Shefter (00:42:43): you can’t go home and, and that’s the whole thing is like if you got ad now let’s go home and teach what you didn’t know, reteach it
Natalie Powell (00:42:52): and it’s to limit cheating and I totally get it. But again, that’s an important accommodation. No, no extra work for the teacher. It’s just the child flip the test in their folder, take it home, learn for their mistakes. Exactly.
Frances Shefter (00:43:05): Exactly. This has been so awesome and I know we can probably talk for hours
Natalie Powell (00:43:9): but we,
Frances Shefter (00:43:11): the clock, I’m like, oh, wait, they’re getting close to time to end. Um This has been so awesome. Natalie. I loved having you on the show. Um, and it just so informative, like, I love it because I’m even learning stuff with as many years of education and teaching that I’ve, you know, done. I was like, oh, I never even thought about those. So I’m excited to have more on my list.
Natalie Powell (00:43:30): Well, I got, I’ve gotten some great ideas from you as well. Frances and you do such fantastic work with families and, I mean, I’ve worked with clients who were able to work with me through work with a lawyer and that has been life changing. So thank you for, for your work as well.
Frances Shefter (00:43:47): Thank you.
Voiceover (00:43:50): You’ve been listening to Stress-Free IEP® with your host, Frances Shefter. Remember you do not need to do it all alone. You can reach Frances through Shefterlaw.com where prior episodes are also posted. Thank you for your positive reviews, comments and sharing the show with others through youtube, linkedin Apple podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher and more.
Individualized Support and Resources for Dyslexic Students with Natalie Powell
Stress-Free IEP® with Frances Shefter, Episode 47
In this episode of Stress-Free IEP®, Frances Shefter speaks with Natalie Powell, a certified dyslexia specialist and certified educational therapist based in California. Natalie is the founder and CEO of Natalie LP Therapy, a company dedicated to providing individualized support and resources for dyslexic students. With her expertise in dyslexia and special education, Natalie offers valuable insights into navigating the challenges of supporting these students within the educational system.
Tune in to the episode to hear about:
Further Resource:
Learn more from and connect with Natalie Powell:
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Stress-Free IEP®:
Frances Shefter is an Education Attorney and Advocate who is committed to helping her clients have a Stress-Free IEP® experience. In each podcast, Frances interviews inspiring people to share information, educate you, empower you and help you get the knowledge you need.
Watch more episodes of Stress-Free IEP®:
Connect and learn more from your host, Frances Shefter:
Read the whole transcript here:
Voiceover (00:00:04): Welcome to Stress-Free IEP®. You do not need to do it all alone with your host, Frances Shefter, Principal of Shefter Law. You can get more details and catch prior episodes at www dot shefterlaw.com. The Stress-Free IEP® video podcast is also posted on youtube and linkedin and you can listen to episodes through Apple podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher and more. Now, here’s the host of Stress-Free IEP®. Frances Shefter.
Frances Shefter (00:00:40): Hello, everyone and welcome to our show. Today’s special guest is Natalie Powell who is a certified dyslexia specialist and a certified educational therapist based in California. So Natalie introduce yourself. Tell everyone a little bit about yourself.
Natalie Powell (00:00:59): Thanks for having me, Frances. Um So as you said, I’m a certified educational therapist and a certified dyslexia specialist. Um My office is in Placerville which is on the South Lake Tahoe side, kind of of northern California. But I have clients come to see me from as far as Fresno, Modesto, the Bay Area. Um San Jose. So up to three hours away because I am one of the only certified dyslexia specialists within my region. Um I offer wrap around dyslexia services. So what that means is I offer dyslexia treatment, assessment, advocacy, coaching presentations, all specific to dyslexia
Frances Shefter (00:01:45): and you just do services in person.
Natalie Powell (00:01:48): So I do all of the client with services that involve the Children in person. But I do offer coaching um virtually with people all over the world. I’ve coached people in Egypt, Australia, Hong Kong. So I, yeah, I love that. And then I do presentations in person or on zoom like for school districts, private schools, that kind of thing.
Frances Shefter (00:02:13): That’s so cool. I love that because like I say, I’m an international law firm also because I’ve had clients in Germany. Um, because the American based schools have to follow federal law here. So, um, but that, yeah, you know, you don’t think about it, I guess with dyslexia like that. Yes, it’s around in other countries as well.
Natalie Powell (00:02:33): Yes, exactly. Um, I, I’ve even had some people in Canada, um, all over. I even so I have a newsletter which has about 600 subscribers and the software that I use tells me where people are located when they’re opening the newsletter. And I have several people in the Netherlands. I have several in Sweden. I, I don’t know how that happened. But yeah, it’s, um, it’s definitely becoming a worldwide, more well known industry, the dyslexia services, right.
Frances Shefter (00:03:04): Which is good to know because I know it’s also, you know, it’s been around for the States but it’s been challenging until I would say the last few years of being able to get it on the IEP. Um, because unfortunately with dyslexia, if you don’t dig deep enough, it doesn’t show up and it doesn’t show up until you’re older. Right.
Natalie Powell (00:03:28): Yes. Uh, and this, this is the overarching issue really within my assessment practice. So a lot of the kids that I assess are older and have just kind of flown under the radar or they’ve been tested by, or maybe they were tested in first grade, they didn’t score below average school said they would be fine. They just needed time to catch up. And then by the time they’re in upper elementary, middle high school, they’re really struggling and I’m reassessing them and I’m finding they do have dyslexia but it’s mild but it’s still going to hinder them with being assigned the same things as non dyslexic peers.
Frances Shefter (00:04:11): Exactly. And I, I’m gonna love to get your input because I know for me with middle school and high school kids, I tell the families like, yes, you can pay me to get a perfect IEP in place. But honestly, you’re better off going to a dyslexia coach and because they can’t teach your child the way in middle school and high school that your child needs to be taught those basics and they’re going to miss content. So, if you spend the money on the backside, you know, outside to, to get the actual training the way it needs to be, it’s just going to be better, you know, money better spent.
Natalie Powell (00:04:47): Right. And unfortunately starting in middle school there is really no one on one dyslexia support offered. If a student gets an IEP, they go to resource, but it’s like a homework help session. You know, it’s a class, actual class. So you go to the class, it’s 30 kids and you just really do your homework. So any chance for actual intervention remediation is, is pretty much not, it’s not possible once kids get to sixth grade within the school setting.
Frances Shefter (00:05:20): Right. No. And, and that, and that’s why a lot of times I’ll tell people but, but it’s common, I mean, I see it third grade is really when it starts coming out. But what happens is like most of our, most of the kids with dyslexia are very, very bright and so they learn how to compensate and so they know something’s wrong but they’re using the context clues, they’re using the pictures, they’re listening to what other people are saying and that’s why you can’t see that they’re struggling.
Natalie Powell (00:05:51): Uh, another way that I have found they tend to compensate and I’m seeing this more and more and I, I don’t know why I always see these certain trends in my practice every few years. And right now it’s not only are they compensating with the content clues as you said, but context clues from the adult that they’re sitting with when they’re reading. So when I’m asking a student to sound out a word, they will look up halfway through sounding it out and finish sounding it out while they’re looking at me and we’re making eye contact. Right. So that’s not actually reading because reading is looking at a word. Right. So they are so in the habit of getting feedback from the adult that they’re sitting with to guide their decoding versus this is actually knowing the sounds. So if I make a face like they’re gonna say, 00, I made it, I did the wrong sound. Let me switch that vowel sound right. So they’re using you as context as I
Frances Shefter (00:06:52): don’t even think of that.
Natalie Powell (00:06:55): So that is something that I’m constantly working on with my students right now. I tell them, do not look at me. I hold my, I hold a piece of paper up in front of my face quite often because they are just, and they don’t even realize they’re doing this. But as you say, I mean, they’re clever and they’ve got to survive in the classroom. So they’re gonna pick up all these little compensatory strategies that really just become bad habits.
Frances Shefter (00:07:21): Yeah. And that’s also why it’s harder as they get older because they are habits that you now have to break. Um, yes. So what, like, so, I mean, with dyslexia, I know, like with IEPs and stuff you might need it for other, like the resource class is more for executive functioning is what I’ve seen taught at least around here. But like, what do you say would be the benefits or the drawbacks of that you have, have a child with dyslexia. Should parents go fight for the IEP or, or not? What do you think?
Natalie Powell (00:07:52): So, with the increasing awareness of dyslexia, parents are a little more savvy, I think, especially since COVID and they are googling what they should do. But I think the most common advice they come across when they’re Googling is fight for an IEP. Now, a lot of the time I’ll work with parents where they are very certain they want an IEP for their child and they actually know what an IEP is. So, you know, things are progressing from PRE COVID when a lot of parents asked me what that he was, right. But they aren’t clear on why they want it. They just know they, they should want it. So I, what I ask them is, well, what are you hoping to get out of the IEP? And what does that service look like at your school site? Because really the quality of instruction that you will get if your child has an IEP varies dramatically from school to school. At some schools still in California, there is no dyslexia specific support in resource even for kids that get an IEP in phonological awareness, right? So dyslexia, but they aren’t offering intervention for phonological awareness. Um There might still be some whole language elements in resource. It may just be more homework help, it may be whatever we’re printing off of teachers, pay teachers that day. So in that situation, when there isn’t something dyslexia specific that’s being delivered by someone with the proper training, I tell parents you may be better off with just a 504 because you don’t want to waste the child’s time and you don’t want to expose them to opportunities where you’re telling them it’s supposed to help them and they know that it’s not because then when you’re actually going to start them on dyslexia specific support, if you choose to pursue that, they’ll have already had some unsuccessful experiences working with adults that were supposed to help them. So you want to preserve their belief that there are people out there that can help them learn to read and that they can do this.
Frances Shefter (00:10:08): Yeah. No, that totally makes sense because, you know, for those that don’t know the difference between IEP and the 504 plan, it’s mainly the direct instruction. Does your child need specialized direct instruction? Meaning is there a goal? So, yes, we know the goal is, you know, working on sounding out words and nonsense words and all of that. But is, that’s something that as you said, that your school can even provide yes, legally they’re required to. But again, where we say all the time and it was a supreme court case, they only have to provide the Chevy, they don’t have to provide the Cadillac of services. And I feel better about saying that because it was in a Supreme Court ruling, you know, at first I was like, that’s not nice. But yeah, I mean, that’s the thing. And so, right, what does your child need like as parents if you’re even watching the show or looking, I can tell right now you guys are parents that want that Cadillac for your kids because it matters and it makes a difference. And so,
Natalie Powell (00:11:07): and you know, it differs also from state to state. So California is, is quite behind in this area. So as as I said, I mean, often the reality is that local parents who secure an IEP for their child, they fought very hard for that and then they find that the resource support that they’re getting isn’t actually working. So then they’re kind of baffled and they’re thinking, well, is this just how it’s gonna be? I mean, is my child always going to struggle with reading? And the answer is no, they absolutely can become successful readers, but that may not sadly be provided within the public school setting. And that’s when the work with you comes into play. I work with a lot of clients that are working with a lawyer or an advocate, um or parents really, they just decide to bite the bullet and get private support. Um So it’s it’s really, it’s, it’s so dependent on what the parents are able to provide. And it’s, it’s sad because one on one dyslexia specific services should be what you get when you get an IEP in reading. But so often you don’t,
Frances Shefter (00:12:17): but it can, and legally what they’re required to is there as long as they’re providing reading support by a certified teacher, that’s all they need, then they’re covered by the law. And, you know, it’s interesting you say working with a lot of lawyers and stuff of what you want, that’s a lot of what I do in my strategy sessions is I talk through with the parents of what their ultimate goal is because it’s very, very different what we do and what we get on an IEP. If your ultimate goal, if your ultimate goal is you want your child to stay at the in boundary school period, no matter what, you don’t want them changing. So then legally can we fight the school and say that they’re not implementing the IEP, right? Your kids not progressing, they need to provide more. Yes, legally we can. But what is that more going to look like? And
Natalie Powell (00:13:04): Right. Right.
Frances Shefter (00:13:05): Because it’s more restrictive environment usually, which means a special ed classroom, which is not what you want. So, so let’s look at where we are and what you want and then, OK, so then we can still get an IEP in place if they need it for other things, or 504. If it’s just that and then work at home, here’s a list of resources.
Natalie Powell (00:13:26): Right. Another thing that I’ve been running into is that as awareness of dyslexia is increasing and parents are wanting the testing for an IEP school psychologists are overburdened with all these assessments that they have to do. Right. So, a lot more kids are being qualified for 90 people with that, but they’re not hiring more trained resource teachers and they’re not investing in Orton Gillingham dyslexia specific support. So you end up with a small group which may have been a small group five years ago, but now a small group has 10 Children, which is also a problem. So it’s not only about making sure the school has someone trained and they’re using a dyslexia specific program, but how big is the group? Right? Because really one on one is the gold standard. Two on one is, is good and then pass to like even a group of three. There are no two Children with dyslexia that are exactly alike. Anyway. So the bigger the group, the less specialized you are in catering to each child’s need. And then sometimes these small groups, quote unquote group of 10 are led by an aid um who doesn’t have any training in dyslexia. Um I
Frances Shefter (00:14:50): also heard the lesson
Natalie Powell (00:14:52): right? Or they’ll give. So let’s just say the school is using a dyslexia specific curriculum. So this is something that I came across a couple of ago, the school was using a program called Spire, which for any parents listening, it’s similar to a Barton. Um It’s slow moving, very comprehensive. It is designed for kids with dyslexia and it has multi sensory elements. The main one is using letter tiles, so magnetic letter tiles to build words. So this school said, oh yeah, we’re using Spire but without the multisensory component. So I went into the resource, right. So I went into the resource room to do an observation. And I was noticing the small groups weren’t using the magnetic tiles and they were sitting right over there and I was saying, so do you use these? And they’re like, no, no, we don’t, we didn’t use them too much mess,
Frances Shefter (00:15:48): not doing the program.
Natalie Powell (00:15:50): Right. Right. And, and that’s the, I mean, you know, that’s probably arguably the most important part is learning to build words physically manipulating how words are made, breaking words apart and that is what they abbreviated. They were saying it was messy and it was too time consuming. And that’s the other thing. So the sessions were only 30 minutes. So they had to cut elements of the program and that’s what they cut. That’s ridiculous. I’m sure you’ve heard it many times
Frances Shefter (00:16:23): before. I know it. You know, it’s so funny because I, and I say it often to clients at, on my show in meetings like, I don’t know why I’m surprised anymore of what I hear happens in schools, what teachers have said what principals have said what they do, why they do it. Like, uh it still amazes me that there are people out there that just don’t, and, and I don’t want to knock the teacher is definitely not, but like, they just don’t get it. They have to do what their principals told them. They have to do what and principals have to follow central office and whoever’s making the decisions doesn’t understand what’s down here. And then the budget is involved as
Natalie Powell (00:17:01): much as we say, the budget,
Frances Shefter (00:17:04): you know, um and it’s sad but I mean, that being said, what we have in school systems now are tenfold better than what we had. Like, even when I was in elementary school because, you know, you know, when I was in elementary school, it was like, oh, you don’t want to do special education, you know, your kid will never go to college. You don’t want, you know, and they didn’t know what dyslexia was. They just thought it was like reversing letters. They didn’t understand the in depthness of dyslexia.
Natalie Powell (00:17:32): Yeah. So right now, I kind of think of it as what the tip of the iceberg, right? Kids are starting to get identified. E everything else kind of below the water line is still very problematic. What like what do you do once you qualify a student, there are so many supports that are not yet there. Um So for just to recap for parents, you definitely fight for the IEP. If you feel like the you’ve investigated the services that are offered two kids that get an IEP for dyslexia and your school is using a dyslexia specific program. They’re not taking out the multi sensory elements. The groups are not huge, these things all matter. Now for students that um can do outside support, it can be helpful to also have an IEP and to use resource as basically tutoring or review. So for example, students that come to me, it’s, it’s only once a week usually. So I can’t teach them everything. I have to be very targeted in my time with them. And you know, there’s a whole week that goes by between when I see them and when I see them. So it’s very helpful if they get some sort of review at school daily in resource, even if they’re not learning anything new just to prevent backsliding between sessions. So for kids with more severe dyslexia that are at risk of backsliding or where memory is a really big problem. I do often recommend that they do go to resource just as a review. Now, parents could review at home, but parents are very busy and it’s just, it’s so much better if that can just be taken care of during the school day after school hands off.
Frances Shefter (00:19:33): And I was just going to say and parents can’t always get their Children to do what they want. You know, because I was like, with my daughter, I talk about my kids all the time. Chana, who’s nine, the teacher had said saying that she wasn’t able to complete one of the assignments. If we could work on it over the weekend, it would be great. And I tried to get honest, you’re not a teacher. You don’t. And I’m like, but I used to be a teacher, like, even though I used to, but she’s like, I’ll work on it with my support. I’ll work on it with my support. Like she wants to work on it with school. So again, it’s yes we can. But what I also like to say is as parents, we have enough on our plates and to then take the teacher role of our child of now, this is another role that are, my parents is playing for me. And it’s just, it’s that special time with your child that should be spent playing games, doing something different, not stressing about the homework, stressing about the reading stuff.
Natalie Powell (00:20:33): Right. So it’s so helpful if that review can just be outsourced and built into the school day before the child’s really tired. So they come home and a lot of these kids are very stressed. They’re internalizing a lot of stress during the school day. You know, they don’t, don’t want to show that they’re embarrassed, they want to fit in with their peers. So they hold it all inside and then when they get home, unfortunately many parents tell me they melt down because that’s when they just let it all out. Right. So, you really just want parents to be able to be there and support their child emotionally and take all the academic stuff out if you can.
Frances Shefter (00:21:11): And what’s great about the resource room also is that even if it’s not, they’re not getting instruction, it’s whatever, it’s downtime for your child. And sometimes, you know, you think about it a six hour day, they get no downtime. You know, and I, like I had a client, we worked in two resource rooms because she needed those downtime in between when her brain was having to work so hard.
Natalie Powell (00:21:37): Yeah. So at that time can be a brain break too. Yeah. Absolutely. So, there are useful aspects. It’s just important for parents to, again, as you guys talk about in your consults really have a plan for what you’re hoping to get out of resource because it can be very helpful if it’s utilized very strategically.
Frances Shefter (00:21:59): Yeah, exactly. No, it makes sense. And that’s, and that’s again, again, the thing is what do you want for your child? All of us want something different. I mean, yes, we want our kids to be educated and to be, you know, good members of society and stuff. But like, what does that look like for you? What does that work for you. What does that look like for your child? Because that’s the other thing is some kids are going to do fine in the public school system, but the outside tutoring, some kids need that. A specific special ed school that teaches it wrap around. Um and what do you want it to look like and then reach out to the supports that can help you
Natalie Powell (00:22:34): and then something that parents also don’t know is, and I don’t know if this is universal, but just in California, I will speak to in middle school because resource is a class. Students in sixth grade don’t get an elective because their elective is automatically resource. So of course, student buy in is very important and many sixth graders feel upset and they feel like it’s not fair if they have to go to resource and they’re not getting elected. So again, going back to what I said about you want the child to, to participate in things where they are going to see the benefit. So they don’t lose their belief in them, improving people being able to help them, right? If they’re going to lose an elective, what they’re losing it for, better be really impactful, right? And if they’re going and it’s a homework call and kids are talking, they’re going to know it’s not helpful and that’s going to create a whole other problem with motivation which becomes, you know, a, a bigger issue in and of itself for middle schoolers. And then in California, in seventh grade, students get two electives. So automatically one of them is resource and then they only get the one elective. So sometimes what I recommend to parents is that they have their child tested for an IEP at the end of eighth grade. So the, the student isn’t missing out on any of the electives and they’re not doing the, the study hall resource, but they have the IEP going into high school because in high school it does tend to be pretty helpful and, and it has a, a kind of different layout that is very specific from school to school, but it’s not just you go to the class, it’s 30 kids are doing your homework. So that’s something parents can also think about if they don’t want their child to miss electives.
Frances Shefter (00:24:25): Yeah. No, that makes sense also because what is some, for some kids? It doesn’t matter that it’s sitting and doing homework and talking, that’s what they need and they don’t care about whatever, you know, pottery or woodworking or whatever and that works for them. But for other kids it’s like, no, I want, you know, I want to take whatever that elective is because I want to learn about that
Natalie Powell (00:24:47): or that’s where they feel successful. Right. For, for art, if that, that’s maybe their thing. So, so many important things to consider for parents. It’s a lot for parents
Frances Shefter (00:24:59): and that’s, you know, and that’s why it’s called an individualized education plan because each of our kids are different, even if they have the same coding, even if they have the same diagnosis, even if they have the same, similar scores, you know, like, it’s just not like everybody needs it differently.
Natalie Powell (00:25:15): Yes. Absolutely. And that’s why parents sometimes ask, do you do two on one sessions? And I, I don’t, because it really, it’s so difficult. I’ve tried it, but it’s hard because inevitably one child, even if it’s just slightly will be a little bit ahead of the other child. And when that happens, you, you feel yourself going to try to go in between, meet them in the middle, right? And it’s, it’s so difficult. Every, it’s just, there’s so much individual strengths, weaknesses, everything that come with dyslexia, every single case,
Frances Shefter (00:25:51): right. That makes sense. And earlier is better. I know you were saying with that of waiting to test and I’m like, always like, no, no, no, no, no. And I see the difference because so my kids, um, 1st and, and 4th grade, I had them both tested over the summer and both got diagnosed with dyslexia. The difference. Seeing my fourth grader and my first grade on what supports can be put in place is very different because my younger one is more than happy to get pulled out to work with a reading teacher. My older one is like, no, because then what happens is that she falls behind on the content. And so, like, ok, we get the private for her, you know, and again, like, what it looks like earlier is always better because the kids in kindergarten, 1st, 2nd grade, they’re not totally aware of. I’m different, getting pulled out yet.
Natalie Powell (00:26:41): Right. Right. And there’s still a lot of grouping that happens at that age anyway. So they might be doing centers, they might be getting pulled out, you know, for the actual individual reading testing. Like dr a, um, schools use different things but there are a lot, there’s a lot of coming and going and, and placing in groups and sometimes their ability groupings with, within the reading groups. So that is more, um, normalized. But as they get older peers are also more aware of who’s leaving the classroom, there can be, you know, a little social stigma and I don’t hear that about every school by any means, but some parents have told me, you know, my child’s embarrassed to leave class peers say, where are you going? Um. Right.
Frances Shefter (00:27:32): Exactly. It depends on who your kid is. Some, some own. It be like I’m going to get help because I, because my brain works different
Natalie Powell (00:27:38): or some are just so desperate for help. They don’t care. They’re like, I’m going to get help. I don’t want to stay in here for.
Frances Shefter (00:27:45): Exactly. But, and then some are like, they don’t want the, you know, they don’t want to look different and they want to fit in and that’s fine too. Um So I want to talk about accommodations a little bit because like, so to teach our, our the people that are listening because the whole thing about this show is to teach parents of what they can do so that they can try and do this stuff without us support. But if they can’t, then they’ll come to us. But like so accommodations for middle school, I mean, everybody knows the preferential seating extra time, the general stuff. Is there anything for like elementary school accommodation wise that you would recommend that that parents might not know about?
Natalie Powell (00:28:24): So for elementary school, um I actually reached out to a couple of clients uh that I’ve worked with in the past to say what has ended up working really well for your child since we worked together in terms of accommodations and one parent said flexibility with reading levels. And I thought that was one that I even would never have thought of, but that’s working really well for her son. So the school that her son goes to uses A R which I, I mean, I’m not super familiar. I, I think it’s like an FNP where, oh, they’re reading at a level J or they’re reading at a level 200 whatever. So the classroom has a leveled library where kids are only supposed to book browse within their level. So it can be very public because you need to go to your little book section and sometimes teachers will not let them read or check out a book from a higher level in the class library. So the accommodation there for him is that he can just choose whatever book he wants. So not only does it eliminate any kind of stigma, but it makes him feel free to be curious about books that might be above his level. And she said, you know, if it’s above his level, that’s fine, we’ll read it with him at home, we’ll support him. We’ll get the audio book if we need. But there’s a lot to be said for allowing the kids to access that higher level intellectual content just with support.
Frances Shefter (00:30:03): Yeah, I, I’m writing it down. I keep a bank. Right.
Natalie Powell (00:30:11): Um, and then by the same token, maybe he wants to read a book that’s too easy for him. That’s not necessarily a bad thing because you might finish the book and sometimes when I get frustrated, like, right. Right. They’ll just skip, skip, skip, you know, even if it’s a book that’s at their level, it’s gonna have words. They don’t know. So they might just be skipping to get through the book quicker. Or like a student. I assessed yesterday they may start a new book every single class period because they’re not, they’re not engaged. They’re finding them all too hard, too dense, not enough pictures. So they’re not getting that comprehension element of tracking a character, tracking events through a book. She reads chapter one of a new book every single day,
Frances Shefter (00:31:02): really good introductions.
Natalie Powell (00:31:04): She’s really good. Yeah. So those are against some unintended consequences of these really common systems that are meant to help readers. But with, with kids of dyslexia, it can actually hinder them. So I thought that was really good and then some others that I always recommend to clients. Um and I actually have a list of all these and I can provide it to you if parents want to download it from your site just as a reference, I’ll get a
Frances Shefter (00:31:32): link in the um in the show notes.
Natalie Powell (00:31:34): Um ok, so for student comfort, many are afraid of being called on to not only just to read loud but to give a math fact answer because math facts to me to spell a word out loud, just anything where they have to do something on command. They’re very nervous sometimes in class which adds a whole other layer because not only are they maybe struggling with the content, but now they’re also really nervous while they’re trying to learn the content. So it’s gonna make it even harder. So a really easy accommodation that no one’s ever had an issue with at a meeting and it’s no prep is just don’t call them a student without their hand raised. So simple,
Frances Shefter (00:32:20): you know, it’s interesting because I thought you were gonna go, what I do a lot of times is advanced notice before calling.
Natalie Powell (00:32:27): Ok. So, or ability to pass sometimes I say because teachers still do round robin and that’s, that’s a, a plan for the entire class. So it’s gonna be obvious if they’re going around and then, oh, we’re gonna skip. So and so. Right. So just option to pass
Frances Shefter (00:32:49): and that’s best practices anyway. Don’t, you know, like that teachers should probably be doing in the first place. Not saying should, I shouldn’t, should on teachers but, you know, but it’s just something, you know, that, that is so easy to put in place that just makes the classroom so much easier and probably behavior management too because if there’s other kids that are having anxiety about it, they might like, oh, no, it’s my turn. Let me misbehave so I can get out of the room, get out of this and I can avoid it. Right.
Natalie Powell (00:33:17): Right. Right. Or, you know, I was petrified of being called out without my hand raised in school and I don’t have dyslexia II, I just was really scared of this happening for some reason. So, while the other kids were reading, I was counting down to my turn, I would just be rehearsing whatever I needed to read and not really paying attention to everything else that’s happening.
Frances Shefter (00:33:40): Exactly. Exactly. Because you’re like, yep. Exactly. No, totally. And what, what am I thinking about going in advance? Um, So what else do you have others of like or even middle or high school?
Natalie Powell (00:33:52): So this one would be appropriate for middle school as well. And I mean, maybe even high school. So a second chance on math problems missed due to reversals. Now I’m thinking of reversals globally. So not just I write a number backwards, this could include reflections. So the student did the problem correctly. They wrote 12. The answer was 21. Let them fix that right? Because that’s not an understanding error. That’s a reversal and it’s part and parcel of dyslexia. So we don’t want to penalize for that. And there are many other ways that this can look in math. Like I had 1/6 grader, I was working with recently who was doing cross canceling with fractions and you know, he, he cross canceled but he wrote, he reduced them correctly but labeled the wrong fraction. So he reduced this one correctly. But then he wrote the new numbers over here. So he just, he got discombobulated there. So then of course, the answer was wrong. So doing things out of sequence or top to bottom, things like that. I consider all those reversals and I would always encourage teachers to just understand that is what happened. It’s not that they don’t understand what they’re supposed to do. They just had a little working memory blip.
Frances Shefter (00:35:26): Yeah. No, I like that. And that, I mean, one of the things that I’ve put on is, um, is alternative ways to show knowledge. So, doing it and then like having the child read it to you and then like, oh, wait, no, that’s not right. It’s supposed to be this instead.
Natalie Powell (00:35:42): Exactly. Um, another one I have is ability to leave school early or arrive late to work with a specialist. So again, this is something that it’s no prep, it’s just allowing something. Right. So, accommodating in a, in the true sense of the word. So I have some students that leave school early to come work with me. And that is, that’s partially because they’re more, they’re fresher when we’re not meeting at four, we’re meeting at two. Right. That makes a difference. But, but also in terms of the reality of scheduling and the, the 3 to 5 times lots are, they’re limited, right? And I’m not doing small groups. It’s one person that gets the 3 to 4 slot on a Monday and that’s who gets it. So, you know, some of my clients, you know, they’ve worked with a lawyer to secure, you know, private services when you find out that everyone’s after school schedule is booked. So just being flexible with, when the child can leave school makes a huge difference because that can be the difference between a child getting the help they need or, or not.
Frances Shefter (00:37:06): Right. Right.
Natalie Powell (00:37:08): Um, other ones allowing oral answers whenever possible, sitting in a quiet area of the classroom, which is often not the front row. I always suggest next to Quiet Piers with back to windows and classroom door. So minimizing the visual disturbances as well of people coming and going kids passing by looking through the window, all those peripheral things that can make it even harder to read when all that’s going on. Um And then some, oh go ahead.
Frances Shefter (00:37:47): Oh no, I was just gonna say we use pre preferential seating but a lot of times the schools will put prefer preferential seating as supplementary aid but won’t flesh it out. Clarify location of manner. So for what, what is it for that child does preferential seating mean should the child like for high schoolers and middle schoolers, should the child work with the teacher to determine what they think is best? Should it be selected peers are with them or not with them? You know, so that there’s, we know exactly what the child needs and flush it out that way.
Natalie Powell (00:38:22): That’s a good point because a lot of the accommodations that are kind of plug and play preferential seating extra time, things like that. They can be extremely helpful if they’re flushed out appropriately and if there’s a conversation between the teacher and the student of what needs to be more specific in that plan. So that’s a great idea also who they shouldn’t sit with? Right. Because sometimes there’s a peer where the two peers together are bad combination and there, there are so many nuances of what preferential means exactly. Um ok, so I was also gonna mention because parents might not know about this. Learning Ally access is a great accommodation to suggest it’s not really an accommodation, it’s just something that they could get through a 504 or an IEP. So Learning Ally is, it’s an app that reads audiobook, it reads ebook text as it’s highlighted. So it makes it easier to follow along with what you’re hearing. So you do get that visual component, which can have, you know, marginal effect on fluency because you’re actually seeing the word that’s being read to you. So there’s a little multisensory boost there. It can also help kids keep their attention on what they’re reading with that visual component. And it is a program that’s only for kids with what they call a, a print disability. So you have to be qualified or nominated for Learning Ally by professionals. So a lot of educational therapists can nominate students I can, but parents would then have to pay the fee to Learning Ally, which is I believe 100 and 20 a year. Whereas if they request learning ally access from their school, they could get it for free. And a lot of schools are learning allied members.
Frances Shefter (00:40:23): Got it. That makes sense. I didn’t even hear about that. I haven’t heard about that one before. So that
Natalie Powell (00:40:28): was really popular locally. And I think that’s what I was gonna say I like it.
Frances Shefter (00:40:33): That’s why I love working with people. You know, like I have people from all over the place on the show because something that’s here that we do normally might not be where you are and vice versa. You know,
Natalie Powell (00:40:44): that’s why I love doing the coaching with the people in different countries. It’s fascinating and, and even when I coach people from the east coast, they’re like, what is an educational therapist? Never heard of that. We don’t have those here.
Frances Shefter (00:40:57): Yes, we do.
Natalie Powell (00:40:58): I put that on the show. Ok, there you go.
Frances Shefter (00:41:01): Right. But, but again, that’s, that’s part of the reason of the show is that parents don’t know what’s out there and what’s available because they just, they don’t know how to find it, they don’t know what to ask and what, you know what I mean? Like it’s, it’s, you don’t know what you don’t know.
Natalie Powell (00:41:18): Um Just a couple more accommodations that clients responded saying so that I asked them, can you just ask your child what their favorite accommodation is? So I’m just gonna run through what some of the kids said. So being able to type all assignments, extra time for tests, time and a half for tests, extra time on assignments. Ok. There’s a theme here. They all are really liking the extra time um access to the school audio library. So again, kind of learning ally getting that audible access being not being penalized for spelling, including in a foreign language. Um being able to take tests and resources. So again, that’s a really purposeful way to use resource. Maybe you don’t think the reading intervention is going to work for your child. But they may really like taking a test in a quiet place with someone that can read the problems to them. So that can be a great use at that time. Um And then tests that they can write on. So typically once they get to middle school, you can’t write on the test. But that is super helpful for kids, dyslexia. Also being able to take home a test to see what you miss. Big trend locally is kids can’t take home graded tests. So I’ll ask, why did you get ad on your test? Don’t know. Right. You,
Frances Shefter (00:42:43): you can’t go home and, and that’s the whole thing is like if you got ad now let’s go home and teach what you didn’t know, reteach it
Natalie Powell (00:42:52): and it’s to limit cheating and I totally get it. But again, that’s an important accommodation. No, no extra work for the teacher. It’s just the child flip the test in their folder, take it home, learn for their mistakes. Exactly.
Frances Shefter (00:43:05): Exactly. This has been so awesome and I know we can probably talk for hours
Natalie Powell (00:43:9): but we,
Frances Shefter (00:43:11): the clock, I’m like, oh, wait, they’re getting close to time to end. Um This has been so awesome. Natalie. I loved having you on the show. Um, and it just so informative, like, I love it because I’m even learning stuff with as many years of education and teaching that I’ve, you know, done. I was like, oh, I never even thought about those. So I’m excited to have more on my list.
Natalie Powell (00:43:30): Well, I got, I’ve gotten some great ideas from you as well. Frances and you do such fantastic work with families and, I mean, I’ve worked with clients who were able to work with me through work with a lawyer and that has been life changing. So thank you for, for your work as well.
Frances Shefter (00:43:47): Thank you.
Voiceover (00:43:50): You’ve been listening to Stress-Free IEP® with your host, Frances Shefter. Remember you do not need to do it all alone. You can reach Frances through Shefterlaw.com where prior episodes are also posted. Thank you for your positive reviews, comments and sharing the show with others through youtube, linkedin Apple podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher and more.
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